Cable Modem Suggestion?

[jonathanm1978]

The Netgear PLA

 

 

Again, same Netgear PLA

 

 

The Netgear Range extender, awesome on range too!!

 

 

And lastly, the TP-Link PLA w/Wifi also:

 

[Deval]

That's because your area hasn't been upgraded to MAXX yet.

 

When TWC upgrades you, you will be upgraded free of charge from 100mbit to 300mbit (like my friend just was).

 

You need the SB6183 to get those 300mbit speeds.

 

Read more here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/twc

 

Getting a 16 channel modem is all about future proofing when you get the free upgrade to MAXX.

 

Interesting, they are giving a free upgrade to Ultimate 300 for the same price as the Turbo?

 

I don't mind buying the new modem if I could get that. I checked my bill yesterday, and it shows Standard Internet, with a $10 buy-up for Ultimate 100. The buy-up for Ultimate 300 is another $10.

[Deval]

Ah, I thought the N450 was yours. If you owned it outright, I couldn't see why you'd bother spending on a new one at this point, but since it is TWC's modem, yeah you're probably better off getting one of the surfboards list by others.

 

Yep it is mine. I got it cheap on Amazon when I first moved into the apartment.

 

I'll probably give it to my father-in-law, since he is still using a really old Motorola Surfboard which is DOCSIS 2.0.

[irev210]

Interesting, they are giving a free upgrade to Ultimate 300 for the same price as the Turbo?

 

I don't mind buying the new modem if I could get that. I checked my bill yesterday, and it shows Standard Internet, with a $10 buy-up for Ultimate 100. The buy-up for Ultimate 300 is another $10.

 

 

Oh, you might already have MAXX in your area then

 

Internet customers with the following current speeds will receive new download/upload speeds:

 

Current Mbps Speeds Up to

New Mbps Speeds Up to

Everyday Low Price   Customers

2/1

3/1

Basic Customers

3/1

10/1

Standard Customers

15/1

50/5

Turbo Customers

20/2

100/10

Extreme Customers

30/5

200/20

Ultimate Customers

50/5

300/20

[Deval]

For anybody who thinks they wouldn't benefit from an AC router if they don't have any matching clients, I'd recommend reading this. Much like the old debate between 720p and 1080p TVs, even if you can't make out the higher resolution of the latter from your viewing distance, picture quality may be improved with the pricier set due to other factors (i.e. contrast ratio, brightness). In the case of AC routers, they may have faster CPUs, higher PA current, or higher-gain antennas than their N counterparts. 

 

Asus routers are no doubt great, but they have gotten a bit expensive. If your budget is firm, then I'd give the TP-Link a good look. It is a well-reviewed AC1750 router that's under $100, less than the N66U, so I think it's worth a try. If it works well, it will also leave you a bit more future-proofed should you opt for anything faster than the 100 Mbps tier in the future. 2x2 40 MHz 802.11n ("N300") will top out at about 180 Mbps with a full signal, whereas AC867 could get up to around 500 Mbps of real-world throughput. As you can tell from SNB's review of that router, the range is not the best (but fine for your apartment), but throughput is good. Wireless performance will probably be slightly better with the new TP-Link Archer C8 (that uses a tried-and-true Broadcom SoC rather than QCA), but it's another $30 (same as the N66U), and I haven't seen any professional reviews for it yet.

 

As for the modem, the more channels the better, but if you're sure that you won't be upgrading beyond 100/10 anytime soon, then either 8x4 modem (Motorola SB6141 or Zoom 5341J) will serve you well until the first hybrid D3/D3.1 modems are released in 2016. I use an SB6141 (since there were no 16-channel standalone modems at the time I bought it last summer) and it works flawlessly with Comcast's 105/20 tier.

 

So I like Brad's combo for you: Zoom 5341J ($69.99) + TP-Link Archer C7 ($98.47) = $168.46. For another $17 you could get the SB6141 which may have slightly better build quality and offers more in-depth diagnostic pages, but either should get the job done up to 100/10. The modems should also theoretically support 200/20, but it appears TWC may only provision that much bandwidth to a 16-channel modem.

 

If you're getting 60/10 with your current N450 router or gateway, you've likely already been provisioned for the full 100/10. On the 2.4 band with lots of neighbors nearby, you're likely limited to a 20 MHz channel. That normally only offers 45-55 Mbps to 1x1 devices (72 Mbps PHY link rate), or 90-100 Mbps (144 Mbps link rate) to 2x2 clients in an interference-free environment, but will be less in your case. You should definitely be able to get your full 100 Mbps speed with a 5GHz network.

 

 

I think VoIP offers the best bang for the buck (I have Ooma myself), but if you really want to stick to cable telephony, then there's the 8x4 Arris TM822G, or the upcoming 16x4-24x8 TM1602 if you're willing to wait for it.

 

Disclaimer: I do not know TWC's owned EMTA policy. I know Comcast supports these devices, but TWC may or may not require you to rent an EMTA or gateway for telephone service, as most Comcast franchises did until recently. Check with your ISP's local office before springing for an EMTA.

 

Thank you for the detailed post, it's very informative. I'm curious if picking up the 16 channel modem would make a difference at all? 

 

On top of that, would TWC even offer the MAXX upgrade? I'm paying for just Standard + $10 for 100/10, so unless I pay the next buy-up tier, I would be soft-capped at 100/10 anyway, no?

[Deval]

All I have to say is that I have Extreme Internet from TWC in my hometown (just outside Columbus, OH) and get 30/5 speeds just as advertised.  I sure am jealous of your speeds from TWC... I wonder when our neck of the woods will get upgraded.

 

I agree with everyone above though.  I have the SB6141 and Asus RT-N66R combination which has worked flawlessly with my BuffaloNAS (LS421DE930).

 

You're paying for the Extreme and only getting 30/5?

 

I'm in Queens, NY though. 

[Deval]

Oh, you might already have MAXX in your area then

 

Internet customers with the following current speeds will receive new download/upload speeds:

 

Current Mbps Speeds Up to

New Mbps Speeds Up to

Everyday Low Price   Customers

2/1

3/1

Basic Customers

3/1

10/1

Standard Customers

15/1

50/5

Turbo Customers

20/2

100/10

Extreme Customers

30/5

200/20

Ultimate Customers

50/5

300/20

 

Yep, that's what happened with my install. I'm technically a "Turbo Customer", and as soon as I plugged in my modem and it provisioned, I got the 60/10 speeds. 

[Oakley707]

Oh, you might already have MAXX in your area then

 

Internet customers with the following current speeds will receive new download/upload speeds:

 

Current Mbps Speeds Up to

New Mbps Speeds Up to

Everyday Low Price   Customers

2/1

3/1

Basic Customers

3/1

10/1

Standard Customers

15/1

50/5

Turbo Customers

20/2

100/10

Extreme Customers

30/5

200/20

Ultimate Customers

50/5

300/20

 

 

You're paying for the Extreme and only getting 30/5?

 

I'm in Queens, NY though. 

Yup, this chart explains it.

 

irev201, any idea / place we can look for when an area will be MAXX available?  I'm just salivating over here...

[irev210]

You're paying for the Extreme and only getting 30/5?

 

I'm in Queens, NY though. 

 

He is in a non-maxx area.  Extreme in non-upgraded areas really is 30/5.  As soon as his area gets MAXX it will be 200/20

 

Yep, that's what happened with my install. I'm technically a "Turbo Customer", and as soon as I plugged in my modem and it provisioned, I got the 60/10 speeds. 

 

Turbo Customer should be provisioned at 100/10

 

Yup, this chart explains it.

 

irev210, any idea / place we can look for when an area will be MAXX available?  I'm just salivating over here...

 

You can check the dslreports link I posted to the TWC forum that talks about future MAXX upgrades

[Deval]

He is in a non-maxx area.  Extreme in non-upgraded areas really is 30/5.  As soon as his area gets MAXX it will be 200/20

 

 

Turbo Customer should be provisioned at 100/10

 

 

You can check the dslreports link I posted to the TWC forum that talks about future MAXX upgrades

 

Sounds good.

 

What sucks is that the 6183 appears to be unavailable unless you're leasing it from TWC.

 

I wonder if I can "buy" directly from them, and what price would they charge.

[coorsleftfield]

I've always believed that the best range extender is another AP flashed with DD-wrt. It can run in WDS mode or be a wifi client, many options. The best way to blanket the house with wifi is if you can pull a cat 5/6 cable between the wifi routers, and set them up with the same SSID but on different wireless channels. Your client will connect to whichever one has a stronger signal. Added hassle of pulling a cable, but if it can be done, it's worth it, if not, run in some kind of repeater mode.

[irev210]

Sounds good.

 

What sucks is that the 6183 appears to be unavailable unless you're leasing it from TWC.

 

I wonder if I can "buy" directly from them, and what price would they charge.

 

Yeah, I think you can for $129 or so (not sure, go into a TWC office and ask).  The SB6183 release is supposed to be any day now.  My friend got a engineering sample off eBay back in April and it's a really nice unit.  Great speeds, very stable.

[Deval]

Yeah, I think you can for $129 or so (not sure, go into a TWC office and ask).  The SB6183 release is supposed to be any day now.  My friend got a engineering sample off eBay back in April and it's a really nice unit.  Great speeds, very stable.

 

Alright, I'll keep an eye out on it. Amazon stills lists 3-5 weeks shipping time.

 

To a few points earlier, I'm debating on the need to get the new modem right now. Probably better if I stick with the N450 I already have, find a way to disable WIFI, and get a new AP. That should hold me over till I can get the standalone modem.

 

Now, the interesting thing would be to figure out how to turn the N450 into a modem only, and do all DHCP and routing through the AP.

[jonathanm1978]

I've always believed that the best range extender is another AP flashed with DD-wrt. It can run in WDS mode or be a wifi client, many options. The best way to blanket the house with wifi is if you can pull a cat 5/6 cable between the wifi routers, and set them up with the same SSID but on different wireless channels. Your client will connect to whichever one has a stronger signal. Added hassle of pulling a cable, but if it can be done, it's worth it, if not, run in some kind of repeater mode.

 

 

Sorry, but I used that for a couple of years with DD-WRT and using repeater mode...there's no comparison. Taking a piece of hardware like that Netgear WN3000RP that I listed a photo of, which has firmware optimized solely for the purpose of repeating signal, and comparing that to a router used as a repeater...I can attest to at least 20 routers since 2010 that don't even come close to the range of this one Netgear range extender. And I used Netgear, Dlink, Linksys, and even Asus and Buffalo...I can say for sure none of those have the ability of the WN3000RPv2, and that's from personal testing. I haven't had the other range extender long enough to comment on ..the testing for it just ended yesterday, but it doesn't even have the range of that one netgear.

 

Keep in mind that the CPU is only doing range extending in Range Extenders...and all the stuff that is done by the CPU in a router...even in repeater/repeater bridge mode.

 

Like I said...I used the method you mentioned..and it worked, but the range was..subpar. I didn't realize just how subpar until I actually got a range extender. And I didn't go out and purchase one, I just happened to be in a beta test for one, and that's how I found out how great those things work.

Not only that, it gets old going to _____________ <--electronics store/area and standing there looking at router versions while reading a list of compatible DD-WRT devices.  Most of the time it's hard to determine from an online retailer which version of a router you are getting -- like in the case of the Netgear WNR2000.

The WNR2000v1 is NOT ddwrt compatible, but the WNR2000v2 IS compatible.  And taking an opened router back for exchange/refund becomes a hassle if you get the wrong one..lots of places don't want to take them back, or have some screwed up policy.

After the DDWRT site became so confusing in 2012 or so, it got to be more trouble than it's worth to try and flash routers..the wiki says this, the forums says something different...and you may or may not get the 'right' firmware, depending on how you select the router in the site menu.

Your average customer isn't going to want to do what needs to be done in order to run DD-WRT and the instructions for repeater mode can be quite confusing, even if you are tech savvy. It's much easier, even for me having flashed numerous routers over the years, to just use a device for what it's designed for.

Back when routers had slow processors and you needed to squeeze the juice out of them, DD-WRT was great...but now, routers are running extremely fast processors and the firmware isn't too bad like it was back then. I know the Netgear and TP-Link both have a mostly simplistic GUI front-end on a linux firmware. If someone is determined to DD-WRT a router and use it as repeater, then Buffalo or Asus both make routers that are already flashed..but I'd still say at least just try a range extender..from someone with experience in both.

[z250kid]

Netgear 6300v2 is great love it.  Range is awsome

[jonathanm1978]

I hope netgear continues using whatever radio they are using in devices. They seem to have a tried + true chip, which I guess is a broadcom of some sort, unless Atheros has changed and can now be used in repeater devices.

[coorsleftfield]

I owned a Netgear R7000 Nighthawk.. $200 AC wifi router. Ended up returning it because I would experience random outages on the 5ghz radio. My phone would still show that it was connected to wifi, but there was no internet access and I could not ping the 192.168.1.1 address of the router. After a few minutes, it would start to work again. It did this several times a day. I found a guy on youtube who had the exact same issue, during the demo/review he was doing. Netgear may good sometimes, but their R7000 is junk, and I would go ASUS if looking for a high end router..

 

[jonathanm1978]

They all have problems. I had an Asus that was "junk" as you call the Netgear. I can't speak for something I haven't used, and I've used an AC router in the Linksys brand, TP-Link, and no other AC devices YET.

I'll be able to add another to that list when testing ends ..but i will say this about Netgear...they have an EXCELLENT QA department in the R & D team. 

If I go into details about how or why I know, then I'll likely be saying something I shouldn't and won't do that. I'll detail how and why later, but I am seeing it first-hand.

I'm not just running up to Wal-Mart or Best Buy and trying each of these routers I listed ...The short-term confidentiality on the Linksys just ended Sept. 13..or 14...it's on the FCC website. Not even available yet at retailers... so what's "new" for me isn't necessarily meant as new from the shelf. I can't even say "new in the box", since some don't even have packaging yet.

 

In Linksys, it was a AC2400 router only. TP-Link was DSL modem + AC1750 router combined. Both were consistent and dependable - one ran my main DSL line, one ran my gaming DSL line. I stressed them both by adding 25+ wireless clients with 4 wired clients, and one of those is an Airave. The other is a Vonage line.

I'll say the TP-Link is a little more reliable so far, and usually they are viewed as a "budget-friendly" option. They definitely knocked it out of the park with that series I ran.

As for the Linksys, things start over as they released a final firmware yesterday..

I really wasn't having any issues, but the 5ghz channel range wasn't as good as I thought it should be before the final. I would see the TP-Link 2.4 and 5 in places I wouldn't see the Linksys 2.4 even..which has been fixed.

The linksys is a 4x4 router. I don't believe there's another 4x4 yet.

[ab30494]

I owned a Netgear R7000 Nighthawk.. $200 AC wifi router. Ended up returning it because I would experience random outages on the 5ghz radio. My phone would still show that it was connected to wifi, but there was no internet access and I could not ping the 192.168.1.1 address of the router. After a few minutes, it would start to work again. It did this several times a day. I found a guy on youtube who had the exact same issue, during the demo/review he was doing. Netgear may good sometimes, but their R7000 is junk, and I would go ASUS if looking for a high end router..

 

i have had that router for at least 6 months. Haven't had any problems with it

[jonathanm1978]

And as a side note, Belkin purchased the consumer router division of Linksys (actually last year). How they are combining assets, I don't know, but it seems like there are more new Linksys products under R & D than Belkin...but that's just from my experience.

[Deval]

I'm going to make a trip to the TWC office tomorrow to see if they will sell me an SB6183. I found my old Netgear N600 dual band router that I can use till a better one comes along for me.

[Conan Kudo]

After years of suckling the Verizon FiOS teat, I unfortunately moved to an area which is served by Time Warner Cable.

 

Thankfully they have upgraded most of their network, and are giving free speed upgrades like candy. I'm paying for "Turbo", which is 20 down/2 up, and getting close to 60 down/10 up, with my own Netgear N450 modem+wifi.

 

Unfortunately there is a lot of wifi interference in my building, and I'm looking to upgrade my modem with a dual band option, 5ghz/2.4ghz. I am not opposed to replacing the N450 with a standard modem and an external access point, but am trying to save money.

 

What modem + WIFI or modem + AP would you recommend? 

Personally, I would recommend buying the T-Mobile ASUS TM-AC1900 router. It's basically an RT-AC68U for half the price. They'll sell it to anyone (just say you're a prepaid customer if they ask). I'll vouch for the RT-AC68U (which I currently use) as a totally fantastic router worth having. If you can swing the 25% accessories discount coupon (CLASSACC25) through T-Mobile telesales (sometimes you can, sometimes you can't), then you can get the router for $75 instead of $99. In either case, it's a bargain and definitely worth getting.

 

I've stopped trusting Motorola modems since Arris took over. They've not been as reliable for me. I swapped out my Motorola SB6141 for a uBee DDM3521 at my home. My brother has had his Motorola SB6180 swapped out for a ZyXEL CDA30360 in his college apartment. We're now getting much better experiences on our broadband connections. I see that Time Warner (like Metrocast in my brother's college town) doesn't appear to support the uBee like Comcast does where I live now. So the ZyXEL (which is supported by Time Warner) would be a good choice.

 

The ZyXEL modem+TM-AC1900 runs you ~$175 if you can't get the coupon to work. If you can get the coupon to work, it's only ~$155. The uBee modem+TM-AC1900 runs you $159 without the coupon. With the coupon, it's only $139. 

 

With new DOCSIS 3.1 cable modems coming out next year, it's worth holding onto your money for now and not spending it on a 16x4 Arris SB6183 that you're not going to get your money's worth out of, anyway. 

[irev210]

 

With new DOCSIS 3.1 cable modems coming out next year, it's worth holding onto your money for now and not spending it on a 16x4 Arris SB6183 that you're not going to get your money's worth out of, anyway. 

 

 

Right, like DOCSIS 3.0 16x8 modems that came out last year.

 

Docsis 3.1 24x modems will probably be out in 2016.

[Conan Kudo]

Right, like DOCSIS 3.0 16x8 modems that came out last year.

 

Docsis 3.1 24x modems will probably be out in 2016.

Realistically, eight channels is likely to be the maximum that any DOCSIS provider will set up per user downlink on cable. And like smartphones, cable modems are driven by MSO requests. Very few (if any) DOCSIS providers requested modems with 16x8, so only one actually exists (Arris' modem).

 

DOCSIS 3.1 will be different because it will pack more bandwidth into the same number of channels (or use fewer channels to provide the same bandwidth). And the spec was finalized earlier this year. It makes complete sense for DOCSIS 3.1 compatible cable modems to come out next year, because they know there will be demand for it.

[irev210]

Realistically, eight channels is likely to be the maximum that any DOCSIS provider will set up per user downlink on cable. And like smartphones, cable modems are driven by MSO requests. Very few (if any) DOCSIS providers requested modems with 16x8, so only one actually exists (Arris' modem).

 

DOCSIS 3.1 will be different because it will pack more bandwidth into the same number of channels (or use fewer channels to provide the same bandwidth). And the spec was finalized earlier this year. It makes complete sense for DOCSIS 3.1 compatible cable modems to come out next year, because they know there will be demand for it.

 

Well, in the case of TWC, they are definitely going with 16 channels in new maxx service areas.  A friend was recently received the upgrade to MAXX and went from 8 channels to 16.

 

Yeah, OFDM is going to be great, but you need to wait until TWC upgrades the CMTS to support the wider channels.  It will be great when they do, but again, it's like people that were saying "oh wait for DOCSIS 3.0, it's about to come out" and that still took years.  I guess a lot has to do with where you are at in your "modem upgrade cycle".  I am on a old 4 channel docsis 3.0 modem and skipped the 8 channel modem.  I'll do the 16 channel 3.0 and probably get the second gen 3.1 modem when my local CMTS is fully upgraded to support it.

 

There are some really really good deals on cheaper 8 channel highly rated cable modems that you can get nowadays, so maybe a 8x channel for ~50 bucks while waiting for a 3.1 might not be a bad way to go.