Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[bigsnake49]

Possible someone to help build out the network more.

 

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Dish can wait until Sprint/T-mobile merge then buy one of the networks.

[IamMrFamous07]

Dish can wait until Sprint/T-mobile merge then buy one of the networks.

I don't think they will merge. It's being a reported that the cable companies are eyeing T-Mobile but we shall see

[WillM]

I don't think they will merge. It's being a reported that the cable companies are eyeing T-Mobile but we shall see

I believe that was just a report of an interview with the investor John Malone who was just kind of throwing out ideas that he thought could happen in 2017. He's a smart guy but I'm not sure I'd put too much faith in it. Who knows? Maybe he's heard something?

[travismheim]

 

 

Very good ideas, and I definitely agree!

 

Especially good point about the simplicity of these plans, which the current plan structure is way too complicated, furthering difficulty at the store level. In regards to Sprint plans, I believe the current Sprint Unlimited Freedom plans are an absolute disaster. Having several different speed caps on different uses is just bad, very bad for Sprint to do. It not only complicates things, but it makes the network look weak, particularly having speed caps for audio streaming. Sprint really does not need to do that when it has so much spectrum and network capacity.

 

Besides, no other carriers are doing it. I for one, will not blame Sprint store employees for having difficulty explaining to customers how the audio streaming speed caps operate and can limit certain types of audio file streaming, because god knows having a few minutes of Tidal Flac streaming could kill Sprint's network. That certainly shouldn't be a message Sprint ought to convey, but sadly it does when people figure it out. Besides, Sprint's network can in fact, handle far more Tidal streaming than T-Mobile in areas such as Chicago.

Unlimited freedom seems pretty simple to me. How many customers even experience any kind of throttling while streaming audio on that plan? I don't know anyone that even uses Tidal, and I never had to set up streaming for any of my customers using that service. Everyone primarily used Spotify, pandora, Google play music, or apple music. The vast majority of customers care about having their stuff available to stream and want it to work when they hit play. I can't recall a single person that required Hi-Fi music streaming on their device.

 

 

 

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[Arysyn]

Unlimited freedom seems pretty simple to me. How many customers even experience any kind of throttling while streaming audio on that plan? I don't know anyone that even uses Tidal, and I never had to set up streaming for any of my customers using that service. Everyone primarily used Spotify, pandora, Google play music, or apple music. The vast majority of customers care about having their stuff available to stream and want it to work when they hit play. I can't recall a single person that required Hi-Fi music streaming on their device.

 

 

 

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There are surprisingly a lot of audiophiles/audio enthusiasts interested deeply in portable audio. There are two particularly huge web forums online that caused me to rethink this, Head-Fi and Super Best Audio Friends, as I use to think 320k audio was just fine. Then reading these audio sites, particularly upon advisement and education by a friend of mine o the differences in audio, I tried flac on the LG V10, and from then on was totally convinced by FLAC's superiority.

 

Although, while I do agree this isn't a majority of Sprint users, its still a good number of people that would be effected by this, unless they are led to the correct plan. I'd argue though not on how many people this would affect or the issue of importance on hifi audio, especially as I've already made my case for that here on S4GRU in the past, but rather concerning the "need" for Sprint to do this and how it looks in contrast to its competitors that don't throttle audio. Pus, for those customers that are at least going to listen to flac streaming just once in a while, still would be affected by this on the basic Unlimited Freedom plan.

 

Finally, I wonder to the issue of store reps if they are properly being trained on this. Its been awhile since I've been to a Sprint store, but based on how many staff did not know about the proper status of the Framily plans back when they still technically could be sold, knew nothing about network vision, carrier aggregation and a number of other important Sprint topics I asked about when trying to make arrangements to go to Sprint, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know enough regarding the Unlimited Freedom details. Its an area Sprint really needs to fix, but again in fairness, there are unnecessary problems with other carrier stores as well that need addressed. It is a big reason why I advocate for people to shop online or by telephone to a high-level corporate department.

[travismheim]

 

 

There are surprisingly a lot of audiophiles/audio enthusiasts interested deeply in portable audio. There are two particularly huge web forums online that caused me to rethink this, Head-Fi and Super Best Audio Friends, as I use to think 320k audio was just fine. Then reading these audio sites, particularly upon advisement and education by a friend of mine o the differences in audio, I tried flac on the LG V10, and from then on was totally convinced by FLAC's superiority.

I get that are enthusiasts and audiophiles that want high quality music, but what's stopping them from loading their high quality music on an SD card or internal storage? Unlimited freedom is about as easy as it gets to understand compared to any other plan in Sprint's history. I would be willing to bet 95% or more users on unlimited freedom don't even realize network optimization is being done when they are streaming. Most people don't even care about speed either, if it loads when they open an app or plays when they click play they are happy. It's when buffering happens, or data times out that customers get upset and post slow speed tests and ultimately port out.

 

 

 

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[Arysyn]

What was the outcome of this?

 

http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/sprint-and-dish-to-trial-fixed-wireless-broadband-service.htm

 

 

Should Sprint and Dish revisit this?

 

I think either this or another Sprint/Dish partnership was something a member here mentioned tome a while back when they were telling me why they thought Dish and Sprint were to merge.

 

I often advocate here for an AT&T/T-Mobile merger that I believe will be the outcome if Softbank/Sprint does make an attempt at T-Mobile, since I believe AT&T will try very hard to prevent such a merger and making an offer yourself is a very good way at fighting it.

 

However, if Softbank/Sprint tries and prevails at getting T-Mobile, it will be very interesting what happens with Dish. I think Dish will become a very important grab by the other carriers for its spectrum, and be a big fight for it by AT&T and Verizon, possibly with Softbank trying for Dish for the video aspects Dish provides.

 

Yet, here is an area where I think the government will avoid giving T-Mobile to Softbank based on the spectrum advantage I've mentioned before. If AT&T gets T-Mobile, they will not need Dish, and then Dish will be left for Verizon and Softbank to fight over, which I believe Verizon will ultimately get, giving the big two a major video strategy, especially if some analysts who believe Verizon and Comcast will merge, are correct on that analysis.

[elob]

I

 

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[Arysyn]

I get that are enthusiasts and audiophiles that want high quality music, but what's stopping them from loading their high quality music on an SD card or internal storage? Unlimited freedom is about as easy as it gets to understand compared to any other plan in Sprint's history. I would be willing to bet 95% or more users on unlimited freedom don't even realize network optimization is being done when they are streaming. Most people don't even care about speed either, if it loads when they open an app or plays when they click play they are happy. It's when buffering happens, or data times out that customers get upset and post slow speed tests and ultimately port out.

 

 

 

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I'm sure many of them do store HD Audio rather than stream. There are many digital audio players on the market that have much more internal storage than smartphones do, and sound better with their advanced dacs and amps.

 

However, this is starting to change, and Sprint along with the other carriers will need to figure out their network capabilities for this. As HD audio streams do grow, and more people do look for this with high-end audio smartphones like the LG V20 and also the growing market of usb dacs via otg over smartphone, it'll be important for store employees to tell those customers interested in this. I just think Sprint wouldn't want a limit where its competitors do not, especially as such a limit isn't really needed. A video limit is much more important, therefore is why both Sprint and T-Mobile have one. Audio isn't so much of a network burden, otherwise we'd see it limited much more than T-Mobile offering such things as "Music Freedom". 

[greenbastard]

I get that are enthusiasts and audiophiles that want high quality music,

There are some, but they are a very small minority.

[Flompholph]

I get that are enthusiasts and audiophiles that want high quality music, but what's stopping them from loading their high quality music on an SD card or internal storage? Unlimited freedom is about as easy as it gets to understand compared to any other plan in Sprint's history. I would be willing to bet 95% or more users on unlimited freedom don't even realize network optimization is being done when they are streaming. Most people don't even care about speed either, if it loads when they open an app or plays when they click play they are happy. It's when buffering happens, or data times out that customers get upset and post slow speed tests and ultimately port out.

 

 

 

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What is stopping them from streaming Tidal Hi-Fi (1411Kbps) with a "Upgrade to premium streaming" limit of 1.5 Mbps?

[RAvirani]

What is stopping them from streaming Tidal Hi-Fi (1411Kbps) with a "Upgrade to premium streaming" limit of 1.5 Mbps?

Well they don't want to upgrade, of course. Upgrading isn't free.

[WiWavelength]

What is stopping them from streaming Tidal Hi-Fi (1411Kbps) with a "Upgrade to premium streaming" limit of 1.5 Mbps?

 

Tidal HiFi should average under 1 Mbps.

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

Well they don't want to upgrade, of course. Upgrading isn't free.

Certainly people could upgrade if it was important enough to them to do so. The concern I have throughout the discussion of carrier corporate stores, particularly in this case, Sprint, is whether or not a customer is going to be informed about it, and how the speed cap implementation is perceived by those customers.

 

Another matter I was thinking about when writing my previous post here, was the naming schemes of these services/plans. There is a good move towards simplification when it comes to the main name of the plans, being "One", and minimzing the side option amounts, but sadly the additional service names are still complicated.

 

At least Sprint is much better in this regard than T-Mobile, Verizon, and AT&T, though I don't like how while Sprint is calling "Unlimited Freedom", there also is a "Music Freedom, and I think for audio fans looking between Sprint and T-Mobile for an unlimited data plan, will be more likely to notice and be turned away by Sprint's audio speed cap when they have in mind what T-Mobile offers with "Music Freedom".

 

Of course none of these issues are serious, just some factors that may turn a percentage of people towards one or another carrier. I think if Sprint were to drop the audio speed cap and look towards competing more with Cricket than T-Mobile perhaps in shaping an unlimited plan, it would put Sprint in a better position.

 

After all, Sprint is, in my opinion, much better than T-Mobile with what they can offer in the network experience.

[Arysyn]

Tidal HiFi should average under 1 Mbps.

 

AJ

While that could be the case, many of the audio analysts I've read have mentioned it being 1.5mbps, particularly when mentioning the new Bluetooth 5.0 standard. They've been suggesting BT 5 not having a full 1.5mbps downstream, despite reports of its 2mbps bandwidth. So it seems 1.5mbps is the case from their perspective, though Tidal reportedly is working on MQA, which will deliver HD audio at less bandwidth.

[WiWavelength]

While that could be the case, many of the audio analysts I've read have mentioned it being 1.5mbps...

 

No, you and/or the analysts are mistaken.  Learn more about FLAC.  For 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio, FLAC will average under 1 Mbps.  I should know, as I have ripped thousands of CDs to FLAC.

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

No, you and/or the analysts are mistaken. Learn more about FLAC. For 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio, FLAC will average under 1 Mbps. I should know, as I have ripped thousands of CDs to FLAC.

 

AJ

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/201594722-How-good-is-the-sound-quality-on-TIDAL-

 

"HiFi:

 

Flac 1411 kbps - Lossless

 

(16/44.1 khz)"

[WiWavelength]

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/201594722-How-good-is-the-sound-quality-on-TIDAL-

 

"HiFi:

 

Flac 1411 kbps - Lossless

 

(16/44.1 khz)"

 

Do you not understand data compression and average bit rate?  FLAC is a compressed lossless format.  Its maximum bit rate for 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio is meaningless to the average bit rate.

 

AJ

[chamb]

Do you not understand data compression and average bit rate?  FLAC is a compressed lossless format.  Its maximum bit rate for 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio is meaningless to the average bit rate.

 

AJ

And a BINGO for AJ.

[Arysyn]

Do you not understand data compression and average bit rate?  FLAC is a compressed lossless format.  Its maximum bit rate for 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio is meaningless to the average bit rate.

 

AJ

Nowhere does it say streams under 1mbps. Yet it does say 1411kbps. However, if there is any additional information showing otherwise or to verify what Tidal posted, then by all means show it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but then again what I've read so far shows it at around 1.5mbps.

[Arysyn]

By the way, here is further evidence in the meanwhile :

 

http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/7/8872115/apple-music-tidal-spotify-audio-quality-test

 

 Tidal's claim to fame is that it delivers true lossless streams at 1.4Mbps

 

"streams at 1.4mbps". Oh, yes I know flac is lossless compressed, but that isn't showing that it streams at less than around 1.4mbps-1.5mbps range.

[Flompholph]

It would not be 1.4 it would max out at 1.3779 no way 1.5Mbps. FLAC is like a zip file it is compressed so it is less than the max level. There could be a sound to max the FLAC compression but I am not sure any one would listen. Lossless just means that when it is decoded it is the same as when it was encoded. There are different FLACs like there are different zips. Instead of researching Tidal look more at FLAC.

[WiWavelength]

By the way, here is further evidence in the meanwhile :

 

http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/7/8872115/apple-music-tidal-spotify-audio-quality-test

 

 Tidal's claim to fame is that it delivers true lossless streams at 1.4Mbps

 

"streams at 1.4mbps". Oh, yes I know flac is lossless compressed, but that isn't showing that it streams at less than around 1.4mbps-1.5mbps range.

 

That constant bit rate is accurate for 16 bit 44.1 kHz WAV or AIFF or PCM, not FLAC.  The primary premise of FLAC is to reduce the average bit rate so as to reduce storage and/or transmission requirements.  If FLAC were to average 1.411 Mbps, then it would be an almost pointless format.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

By the way, here is further evidence in the meanwhile :

 

http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/7/8872115/apple-music-tidal-spotify-audio-quality-test

 

 Tidal's claim to fame is that it delivers true lossless streams at 1.4Mbps

 

"streams at 1.4mbps". Oh, yes I know flac is lossless compressed, but that isn't showing that it streams at less than around 1.4mbps-1.5mbps range.

 

FYI, I randomly selected five 16 bit 44.1 kHz FLAC files from my library of 50,000.  No cherry picking, just going where the cursor landed.

 

The compression percentages for the five FLAC files were (in order from least compression to greatest compression) 36, 40, 44, 64, and 67 percent.  Those calculated to average bit rates of 0.90, 0.85, 0.79, 0.51, and 0.47 Mbps, respectively.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

That constant bit rate is accurate for 16 bit 44.1 kHz WAV or AIFF or PCM, not FLAC.  The primary premise of FLAC is to reduce the average bit rate so as to reduce storage and/or transmission requirements.  If FLAC were to average 1.411 Mbps, then it would be an almost pointless format.

 

AJ

 

Yep, same thing with Apple Lossless. It is compressed lossless format, averaging around half of the maximum rate.