Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[Dkoellerwx]

Sprint on the other hand has this new plan, as well as Better Choice, and the 100s of other legacy plans they still support as well as 50% off plans. It's a disorganized chaotic mess. Will Unlimited Freedom bring in new customers? Absolutely. But they're not gonna see increased revenues like T-Mobile because Sprint is still pro-consumer with choice.

 

All those other plans? Days are numbered.... 

[Arysyn]

You don't see an issue because you're ignoring how expensive it is to run a network.

 

Single line plans have to be priced higher because you're not buying in bulk. If you notice the trend, it gets cheaper per unit when buying additional lines. 

 

Ever been to a BJs or Costco? They stay in business because everything is sold in bulk which has a cheaper per-unit cost associated with it.

 

I am keeping n mind how its expensive, but the thing is these individual line rates are increasing too much. Having such a high-rate and only offering unlimited, is going to alienate a lot of customers who don't need much data.

 

With Costco items, yes you pay more and get a lot more for it being in bulk, but unless things have changed since I last went to one of those stores, I think the price was the same for the second, third, and fourth unit purchase of the same item, or perhaps a small markdown may have been offered. However, the markdown on the added lines is pretty huge, especially in contrast to how these family plans use to be priced as. There use to be a reasonable rate for a certain amount of minutes/data, then adding a line was a flat $10 each. It worked for carriers before, so I'm not sure how it couldn't work for them again.

 

At least what could be done not to alienate individual lines with such a high starter cost, would be to say, charge $65, then move down more gradually, to $55, then to $45, and either stop there or at $35, depending on what the carrier wants. A $10 difference makes it more fair to the individual line who doesn't want to make up a bulk of the cost all these added family lines are getting discounted so heavily on.

[Arysyn]

Please keep them out of Arstechnica!

 

I agree! I definitely don't want them there, just surprised they haven't been to the site.

 

Ars commenters are self-policing. If they get what they perceive to be AstroTurf in their midst, they react accordingly. FierceWireless never had that sort of commenter to begin with. 

 

Ah, so probably if they went there, they didn't last long. Its a good thing, because ars is a great site. I enjoyed seeing such witty comments about the T-Mobile thing there today.

[payturr]

With Costco items, yes you pay more and get a lot more for it being in bulk, but unless things have changed since I last went to one of those stores, I think the price was the same for the second, third, and fourth unit purchase of the same item, or perhaps a small markdown may have been offered. 

Yes because Costco is still a business that wants to make money off you, just like the carriers. They're not a wholesaler, they're a retailer. They gotta make a profit off you, again, like the carriers.

[DanielB]

 

 

T-Mobile better executed this plan than Sprint.

 

 

 

Bingo. Legere may act a fool for fun, but he's not an idiot.

[Paynefanbro]

Bingo. Legere may act a fool for fun, but he's not an idiot.

Speaking strictly for myself, I recognized Legere's strategy of moving toward one plan, but it'll be hard to justify having the highest base postpaid plan price out of the 4 nationwide carriers. On top of that, the price for multiple lines can still be beaten by other carriers as well. So it's not exactly the most attractive option for multi-line customers.

 

It's smart for increasing ARPU, etc. but at the same time it alienates customers and if the T-Mobile subreddit is any indication, it'll mean less people recommending T-Mobile.

 

Carriers want simplified pricing structure and so do customers, but not when that creates limitations in the process. Perhaps it'll grow on people as time goes on but right now, virtually every article has been critical of this plan. T-Mobile hasn't changed their guidance for the end of the year so they seem to express some confidence in it.

 

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[DanielB]

Speaking strictly for myself... <snip>

 

Fair point. I hadn't thought of it from this angle, but from a single-line comparison standpoint it does look weak. I guess we'll finally see whether pricing or "unlimited" wins. Frankly, I think pricing is still a bigger factor for many people. With AT&T's price move earlier this week and Sprint's price move today, all of this actually bodes very well for Sprint if price is indeed king.

[Arysyn]

Yes because Costco is still a business that wants to make money off you, just like the carriers. They're not a wholesaler, they're a retailer. They gotta make a profit off you, again, like the carriers.

Still, there is no need for carriers to attempt making the profit off of the first line the way in which they are doing. Yes, they can make a profit from it, but they are not just doing that alone. They are reducing much profit made from additional lines and placing losses of that profit onto the individual line. Again, this isn't how the industry use to be. Profits were divided more evenly between lines.

 

Its akin to giving families tax breaks while sending their children to public school with monetary relief, then raising taxes on single people to make up for the cost difference. Even with some incentive to multi-line customers, It doesn't have to be this extreme. T-Mobile charging $70 for one line, then going down to $20 for the third line and beyond, is a huge monetary difference, $50 to be exact. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if this were some special rate plan as it has been for quite a while, but now its the standard plan and a huge rate hike for a single line from what has been offered by T-Mobile for several years.

 

T-Mobile could still make plenty of profit by charging say, $60 for the first line, $45 for the second, and $30 for the third line and beyond, not discounting all the way down to $20 for those extra lines.

[Rocket87]

I've been following the whole new T-Mobile One and Sprint Unlimited Freedom news all morning, reading into both subreddits, so I can build a proper opinion. I think I have one.

 

T-Mobile better executed this plan than Sprint.

 

Reason why I say this, despite the fact everyone is more pissed at T-Mobile than Sprint, is because this is the most rock solid business strategy I've seen. All new consumers, whether they want 1GB of data or 100GB of data, that want to do business with T-Mobile, have to pay $70 at least for one line. Their average revenue per new subscriber is gonna go up up up. Taking away options from the people but making it sound great for a price that sounds reasonable is a practical business model that yields big profits. Like some have said, it's so un-carrier that it's carrier.

 

Sprint on the other hand has this new plan, as well as Better Choice, and the 100s of other legacy plans they still support as well as 50% off plans. It's a disorganized chaotic mess. Will Unlimited Freedom bring in new customers? Absolutely. But they're not gonna see increased revenues like T-Mobile because Sprint is still pro-consumer with choice.

 

Sprint is clearly the new un-carrier here for giving people the benefit of choice, but T-Mobile doesn't need that. They're corporations, and what matters at the end of the day is big piles of revenue to continue operating, appeasing stockholders, and increased capex to support growing networks. Sprint cares too much about trying to make new customers happy that its hurting the rest, while T-Mobile is just making bank. Nobody on Simple Choice is porting out because they get to keep Simple Choice, and new customers won't care about the caveats. It's a brilliant business plan, it just sucks for us.

I wouldnt bank on that. Marcelo specifically said at the last town hall that he was going to force a change from 2000 active SOCs down to 10 or less.

 

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[payturr]

T-Mobile could still make plenty of profit by charging say, $60 for the first line, $45 for the second, and $30 for the third line and beyond, not discounting all the way down to $20 for those extra lines.

That's actually more expensive than the current $160 T-Mobile One plan by $5.

 

T-Mobile knows what they're doing. We really aren't ones to judge their pricing. There maybe more individual line plans than family plans. Maybe there's more family plans so $160 is the best way to target people to switch. They pay for statisticians, accountants, and psychologists - they know what people want and how to make money off them.

[dnicekid]

You don't see an issue because you're ignoring how expensive it is to run a network.

 

Single line plans have to be priced higher because you're not buying in bulk. If you notice the trend, it gets cheaper per unit when buying additional lines.

 

Ever been to a BJs or Costco? They stay in business because everything is sold in bulk which has a cheaper per-unit cost associated with it.

 

I see your point but disagree. These prices aren't forever. You want to attract customers. What about the people with 1 line? I bet they are more likely to try because it's "easier" I certainly wouldn't move 4+ lines without trying it out first.

 

Again, you want people to flock to sprint a $50ul plan sounds much more attractive than 60/40/30/30. It's confusing to some.

Sometimes you have to give to gain. It is expensive to run a network, and expand. Sprint should have left the 50/50 run it till Jan 5th or something.

 

Marcelo can still make this plan a big hit if he makes it $50 with an iPhone 7. Remember the crazy deal everyone got leasing last year? Those should be expiring soon sooooo a lot of people will upgrade their lease at the regular 24-30 price and they get $10 off the ul.

 

Btw, Costco and bjs are good for some things others they are the same price.... Sometimes more. thas prolly another thread through.

[WiWavelength]

T-Mobile knows what they're doing. We really aren't ones to judge their pricing. There maybe more individual line plans than family plans. Maybe there's more family plans so $160 is the best way to target people to switch. They pay for statisticians, accountants, and psychologists - they know what people want and how to make money off them.

 

And by that rationale, Sprint knows what it is doing.  All four national operators do.  They pay experts so that they make no miscues.  We should not question nor second guess their actions.

 

AJ

[BlueAngel]

Please do!

 

 

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Well it is true, they gave my friend and his wife unlimited everything two lines $180 a month.

[Paynefanbro]

I don't know if anyone else brought it up but Sprint is offering 5GB of tethering with the new plan.

 

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[Rocket87]

I don't know if anyone else brought it up but Sprint is offering 5GB of tethering with the new plan.

 

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Yea ive been correcting people on reddit that seem tk be oblivious that sprint is giving 5gb hot spot compared to tmobiles 2g speed hotspot.

 

Also if you have a employer discount you get a flat $5 credit for lines 1 and 2. So people can save $10 a month if their employer has a discount with sprint or even credit union members.

 

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[dnicekid]

Yea ive been correcting people on reddit that seem tk be oblivious that sprint is giving 5gb hot spot compared to tmobiles 2g speed hotspot.

 

Also if you have a employer discount you get a flat $5 credit for lines 1 and 2. So people can save $10 a month if their employer has a discount with sprint or even credit union members.

 

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Another ++ !! These are the things sprint needs to get out with these plans!!!

[Ascertion]

I don't know if anyone else brought it up but Sprint is offering 5GB of tethering with the new plan.

 

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Something Sprint's doing right. Wasn't there something about Boost customers getting 7 or 8 GB of hotspot data each month as well?

[Johnner1999]

Wait you can get an employer discount too. Hmmm

 

 

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[Arysyn]

That's actually more expensive than the current $160 T-Mobile One plan by $5.

 

T-Mobile knows what they're doing. We really aren't ones to judge their pricing. There maybe more individual line plans than family plans. Maybe there's more family plans so $160 is the best way to target people to switch. They pay for statisticians, accountants, and psychologists - they know what people want and how to make money off them.

 

I think its fair to give opinion, and to disagree.  Perhaps it is more expensive overall when lines get added, but my point is lowering the rate of the individual line mostly for people getting a single line, not having them to make up for such less cost with those on lines 3+. I understand the warehouse concept of paying a little more for alot more in bulk buying, though that usually applies to individual orders, not making up cost spent by others buying more. For instance, Tic Tacs. I asked my mother approximately how much a one ounce container of Tic tacs cost. She said she thinks the cost is around $1.00.

 

So, for example, say if I'm buying a larger quantity of Tic Tacs at once, I can understand why meanwhile it would cost more than buying just one container of Tic Tacs, it wouldn't cost the same price of $1.00 each, as this is a bulk purchase, more guaranteed upfront money. Yet, how this T-Mobile plan sounds, is similar to if I was going to purchase one container of Tic Tacs while a person behind me in line were to prepare to purchase ten of them. The store manager just happens to be helping out a the cashier because they don't have an employee available to fill that spot right then.

 

This store happens to be a privately owned, non-corporate/non-franchised store that unfortunately can get away with doing rude, discriminatory things, but not necessarily get in trouble with the law for it. Its just something customers can choose whether or not to patronize the store. So, this manager doesn't care I'm waiting in line while they gossip with the person in line behind me who is going to purchase ten containers of Tic Tacs. Again, I'm standing there waiting, just waiting to purchase the one container of Tic Tacs.

 

The manager suddenly decides to tell the other customer the ten they have normally in bulk gets 25% off, at $7.50, but they decide since their being so nice to each other, give an additional 25% off discount, making those ten containers of Tic Tacs only cost the same as the price of five containers of Tic Tacs, or $5.00. The manager looks at me and tells me since I'm only purchasing one container, not only do I pay the $1.00 price, but that essentially to make up lost profit on the other customer's order, mine is going to cost $3.50. Granted, this is am analogy and probably would not happen to me, irl, I'd complain loudly about this otherwise.

 

I'm back a bit long on this reply of mine, so to end it here in this paragraph, while my analogy isn't perfect, its a general idea under unusual, and unfair circumstances. Then again, what John Legere has done so often in this industry is just that, unusual and unfair. The first line is $70, then it drops down to $20 on the third line. That is just way too huge a difference! Keep in mind, the total of three lines there, with the second line at $50, is $140. My idea is first line at $60, second line at $45, third line at $30. That is $135, which is only $5 less profit with my idea for T-Mobile, while giving individual lines a $10 break in cost from $70 down to $60. T-Mobile can easily make up there by having the 3rd line and up rate at $30 instead of at $20.

[WiWavelength]

The first line is $70, then it drops down to $20 on the third line. That is just way too huge a difference! Keep in mind, the total of three lines there, with the second line at $50, is $140. My idea is first line at $60, second line at $45, third line at $30. That is $135, which is only $5 less profit with my idea for T-Mobile, while giving individual lines a $10 break in cost from $70 down to $60. T-Mobile can easily make up there by having the 3rd line and up rate at $30 instead of at $20.

 

Like it or not, wireless operators clearly value multi line accounts more than they do single line accounts.  I know, as I never have been on a multi line account, always have paid for my own single line account.

 

But it is what it is, probably because multi line accounts are more entrenched, less susceptible to impulsive churn.  Ensuring that multiple people are set up with new SIM cards and/or new devices as well as satisfied with a new plan and different coverage on another provider can be an impediment, more so than it is for one person.

 

Furthermore, by increasingly discounting the charges for adding a second line and so forth, wireless operators try to incentivize single line accounts and multi line accounts to add lines and become increasingly entrenched.

 

AJ

[utiz4321]

Like it or not, wireless operators clearly value multi line accounts more than they do single line accounts. I know, as I never have been on a multi line account, always have paid for my own single line account.

 

But it is what it is, probably because multi line accounts are more entrenched, less susceptible to impulsive churn. Ensuring that multiple people are set up with new SIM cards and/or new devices as well as satisfied with a new plan and different coverage on another provider can be an impediment, more so than it is for one person.

 

Furthermore, by increasingly discounting the charges for adding a second line and so forth, wireless operators try to incentivize single line accounts and multi line accounts to add lines and become increasingly entrenched.

 

AJ

The do. They are "stickier".

 

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[Arysyn]

Like it or not, wireless operators clearly value multi line accounts more than they do single line accounts.  I know, as I never have been on a multi line account, always have paid for my own single line account.

 

But it is what it is, probably because multi line accounts are more entrenched, less susceptible to impulsive churn.  Ensuring that multiple people are set up with new SIM cards and/or new devices as well as satisfied with a new plan and different coverage on another provider can be an impediment, more so than it is for one person.

 

Furthermore, by increasingly discounting the charges for adding a second line and so forth, wireless operators try to incentivize single line accounts and multi line accounts to add lines and become increasingly entrenched.

 

AJ

 

Well, that seems to be the case, unfortunately.

 

Carriers do this, knowing they are giving multi-lines such a great deal on these plans, further trapped by having device payments the carriers know these multi-line customers are just so highly unlikely to leave.

 

Yet, at least until recently with these overage protection placements on accounts, multi-lines mean more risk in going over allotted data, with carriers being able to charge overages or to charge for extra high-speed data during the account bill cycle. This ought to be plenty in making up for lost profits on 1st line/individual line charges.

 

People having only one line have been overcharged for quite some time. Now this time around its even more apparent, and surprisingly not so with AT&T and Verizon, but from T-Mobile. I don't have much good to say about T-Mobile, generally. However, I thought that besides Sprint, T-Mobile was more fair towards individual lines at least on the per gb plans. Now that T-Mobile is getting rid of that and now is charging $70 monthly as the beginning rate, T-Mobile is no longer friendly towards the individual line. I think this especially will drive away whatever individual business line someone might have with them who doesn't need, nor want unlimited data.

[DanielB]

I don't know if anyone else brought it up but Sprint is offering 5GB of tethering with the new plan.

 

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WOW. That's fantastic!

[payturr]

So I went on the Sprint site to see what's up with advertising Unlimited Freedom since it's out today. No mention on the homepage, okay. Lets check plans. On the little carousel of plans I expected it to be there where Unlimited for $75 was, but nope. Missing from there, just the Better Choice capped data plans. I scroll up and down just to realize it's in small text toward the top of the page. I imagine that although Sprint is posting about it on social media and what not, they don't really want people jumping onto it. Just something they offer in the case someone does want it.

[Paynefanbro]

For me it's appearing in the plan optimizer section since it's cheaper than my current plan.

 

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