Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[Terrell352 2,662]

This is the marketing message Sprint is going with for 5G: We’re the reliable 5G network.

Thoughts?

I like it but their LTE is still the least reliable thanks to FDD/TDD not being a thing.

 

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[Tengen31 686]

I like it but their LTE is still the least reliable thanks to FDD/TDD not being a thing. 
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I saw he answered your question that FDD+TDD is coming will the S9/ note9 and S10 phones be able to use it ( cause they Support it) or will they force us to buy new phones

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[Terrell352 2,662]

I saw he answered your question that FDD+TDD is coming will the S9/ note9 and S10 phones be able to use it ( cause they Support it) or will they force us to buy new phones

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The LG G7, G8, V40, V50, Pixel 3A, 3A XL, 3, 3XL, S9, S9+, Note 9, S10e, S10, S10 Plus, S10 5G, iPhone XR, XS and XS Max all support it.

That's plenty of "device ecosystem " and way more than just three 5G devices yet that is being rolled out.

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[Tengen31 686]

The LG G7, G8, V40, V50, Pixel 3A, 3A XL, 3, 3XL, S9, S9+, Note 9, S10e, S10, S10 Plus, S10 5G, iPhone XR, XS and XS Max all support it.

That's plenty of "device ecosystem " and way more than just three 5G devices yet that is being rolled out.

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Now if only the S9/ Note 9 would get volte

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[cyclone 105]

What's holding up TDD/FDD aggregation anyways? Is it the use of equipment from multiple vendors? Ericsson seems to have been able to achieve the feat back in 2015 using Qualcomm chips. (LINK) Is Sprint trying to avoid any negative PR from showing vendor or device favoritism?

It looks like HPUE was just a failed attempt to mimic the extended range of combining 2.5 downlink and 1900 uplink

[Tengen31 686]

What's holding up TDD/FDD aggregation anyways? Is it the use of equipment from multiple vendors? Ericsson seems to have been able to achieve the feat back in 2015 using Qualcomm chips. (LINK) Is Sprint trying to avoid any negative PR from showing vendor or device favoritism?
It looks like HPUE was just a failed attempt to mimic the extended range of combining 2.5 downlink and 1900 uplink

No one really knows. Also don't know why some volte capable devices still don't have that. I left Sprint for another carrier cause I got tired if waiting for Volte on my S9+.

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[Terrell352 2,662]

What's holding up TDD/FDD aggregation anyways? Is it the use of equipment from multiple vendors? Ericsson seems to have been able to achieve the feat back in 2015 using Qualcomm chips. (LINK) Is Sprint trying to avoid any negative PR from showing vendor or device favoritism?
It looks like HPUE was just a failed attempt to mimic the extended range of combining 2.5 downlink and 1900 uplink

HPUE also makes upload CA not as effective since the phone only uses one or the other.

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[nexgencpu 5,012]

36 minutes ago, Terrell352 said:

The LG G7, G8, V40, V50, Pixel 3A, 3A XL, 3, 3XL, S9, S9+, Note 9, S10e, S10, S10 Plus, S10 5G, iPhone XR, XS and XS Max all support it.

That's plenty of "device ecosystem " and way more than just three 5G devices yet that is being rolled out.

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As Tim mentioned to me earlier, there is one major downside to mixing TDD/FDD, none of these devices would support more than 2xCA while on TDD/FDD on PCC so you'd lose access to that additional capacity.

Bottom line, this isn't exactly the be all end all resolution for some of these upload issues.

[RedSpark 4,049]

33 minutes ago, Terrell352 said:

HPUE also makes upload CA not as effective since the phone only uses one or the other.

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The trade off for HPUE however is this: 

With HPUE, our outdoor 2.5 GHz coverage strength becomes nearly identical to our 1.9 GHz coverage. And indoors, where 60 to 70 percent of all wireless traffic is generated, HPUE enables our 2.5 GHz spectrum to achieve 90 percent of the indoor penetration that is currently achieved by our 1.9 GHz spectrum. The result? An even better experience for our customers with increased coverage, more capacity, and faster speeds.

Sprint wanted to push as much of its traffic to Band 41, which had more carrying capacity than Band 25. Unfortunately the capex limitations for the past few years didn’t allow HPUE to reach its full potential.

Here’s how HPUE performed in “real world” testing:

In December, P3 engineers drove 36 miles around the Chicago metro area gathering about 4,000 test samples along a fixed route. They tested two Samsung Note 8 devices running in parallel, one with HPUE active, and one without, to provide a side-by-side comparison.

P3 found that HPUE increased Sprint’s 2.5 GHz coverage by 24%. And as a result of spending more time on our faster 2.5 GHz spectrum band, average download speed jumped 49%.

Sprint is a Band 41 heavy network. The goal was to make it more available and have devices on it more of the time. Unfortunately, not enough of Sprint’s towers were upgraded to support 2.5 GHz for it to have the impact it needed to have.

The most recent Investor Update (Fiscal 4Q18) states that Sprint has 2.5 GHz on approximately 80% of its macro sites (Page 10), and that’s after a recent capex push.

[Terrell352 2,662]

As Tim mentioned to me earlier, there is one major downside to mixing TDD/FDD, none of these devices would support more than 2xCA while on TDD or FDD on PCC so you'd lose access to that additional capacity.
Bottom line, this isn't exactly the be all end all resolution for some of these upload issues.

Your right about that but that begs the question of why cant Sprint use b25+b41+b41+b41? Is there a reason?

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[Tengen31 686]

Your right about that but that begs the question of why cant Sprint use b25+b41+b41+b41? Is there a reason?

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The Samsung devices anyway support 25+41+41 so not sure why that can't happen. Plus also 25+25+26

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[Tengen31 686]

As Tim mentioned to me earlier, there is one major downside to mixing TDD/FDD, none of these devices would support more than 2xCA while on TDD/FDD on PCC so you'd lose access to that additional capacity.

Bottom line, this isn't exactly the be all end all resolution for some of these upload issues.

Where are you getting that from? Samsung phones anyway support 3xca. 25+41+41

 

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[Terrell352 2,662]

Where are you getting that from? Samsung phones anyway support 3xca. 25+41+41 
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He's saying you would lose the 3rd b41 carrier.

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[lilotimz 12,350]

13 minutes ago, Terrell352 said:

Your right about that but that begs the question of why cant Sprint use b25+b41+b41+b41? Is there a reason?

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FDD-TDD limitations due to different radio technologies. Samsung phones has the most advanced radio configs and thus supports the most carriers but have limitations on MIMO streams as in no 4x4 MIMO on any component carriers. Most other devices are FDD+TDD and some are FDD+TDD+TDD but again there are limitations on MIMO streams.  

Most of Sprints 1.9 network has 4x4 or 2x4 now live  and a large portion on 2.5 is 4x4  so that's a chunk of downlink capacity being traded off. It's a large balancing act and with the turnaround inside of Sprint and with the rudderless leadership, we can see why many projects do not come to fruition.  

FWIW, FDD+TDD was identified early in the industry on as one potential solution to slow uplink speeds years ago alongside uplink CA using higher order MIMO. It is not the end all solution but a very useful tool in the toolkit if they can figure out how to use it. 

[Tengen31 686]

FDD-TDD limitations due to different radio technologies. Samsung phones has the most advanced radio configs and thus supports the most carriers but have limitations on MIMO streams as in no 4x4 MIMO on any component carriers. Most other devices are FDD+TDD and some are FDD+TDD+TDD but again there are limitations on MIMO streams.  
Most of Sprints 1.9 network has 4x4 or 2x4 now live  and a large portion on 2.5 is 4x4  so that's a chunk of downlink capacity being traded off. It's a large balancing act and with the turnaround inside of Sprint and with the rudderless leadership, we can see why many projects do not come to fruition.  
FWIW, FDD+TDD was identified early in the industry on as one potential solution to slow uplink speeds years ago alongside uplink CA using higher order MIMO. It is not the end all solution but a very useful tool in the toolkit if they can figure out how to use it. 

So how come TMO can do 66+46+46+46+2 then? Isn't B46 TDD also.

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[nexgencpu 5,012]

41 minutes ago, lilotimz said:

FDD-TDD limitations due to different radio technologies. Samsung phones has the most advanced radio configs and thus supports the most carriers but have limitations on MIMO streams as in no 4x4 MIMO on any component carriers. Most other devices are FDD+TDD and some are FDD+TDD+TDD but again there are limitations on MIMO streams.  

Most of Sprints 1.9 network has 4x4 or 2x4 now live  and a large portion on 2.5 is 4x4  so that's a chunk of downlink capacity being traded off. It's a large balancing act and with the turnaround inside of Sprint and with the rudderless leadership, we can see why many projects do not come to fruition.  

FWIW, FDD+TDD was identified early in the industry on as one potential solution to slow uplink speeds years ago alongside uplink CA using higher order MIMO. It is not the end all solution but a very useful tool in the toolkit if they can figure out how to use it. 

Forgot about MIMO, thats a biggie.😑

[Tengen31 686]

FDD-TDD limitations due to different radio technologies. Samsung phones has the most advanced radio configs and thus supports the most carriers but have limitations on MIMO streams as in no 4x4 MIMO on any component carriers. Most other devices are FDD+TDD and some are FDD+TDD+TDD but again there are limitations on MIMO streams.  
Most of Sprints 1.9 network has 4x4 or 2x4 now live  and a large portion on 2.5 is 4x4  so that's a chunk of downlink capacity being traded off. It's a large balancing act and with the turnaround inside of Sprint and with the rudderless leadership, we can see why many projects do not come to fruition.  
FWIW, FDD+TDD was identified early in the industry on as one potential solution to slow uplink speeds years ago alongside uplink CA using higher order MIMO. It is not the end all solution but a very useful tool in the toolkit if they can figure out how to use it. 

Aside from all that there is still no excuse for not doing 25+25+26 tho

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[nexgencpu 5,012]

2 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

Aside from all that there is still no excuse for not doing 25+25+26 tho

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Did you read what he wrote? Clearly losing higher orders of MIMO is a huge deal, and might not be a worthwhile trade off even more so on Band 25/26.

[lilotimz 12,350]

10 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

So how come TMO can do 66+46+46+46+2 then? Isn't B46 TDD also.

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B46 is LAA unlicensed LTE on 5 GHz. I believe LTE-U is as well (Band 252? or around there). 

As far as I can see it's mostly 1 PCC of FDD type + multiple LAA carriers. 

The newest specs for it has 1 lowband PCC + 1 midband SCC + SCC LAA's.

 

There is no B66-2-46 standard config i can find  at glance but feel free to find it and let me know. 

[Tengen31 686]

Did you read what he wrote? Clearly losing higher orders of MIMO is a huge deal, and might not be a worthwhile trade off even more so on Band 25/26.

He was talking about 25+41, not 25+26. 25+26 is all FDD no different then how att,vzw and TMO aggregate all there FDD bands.

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[Terrell352 2,662]

FDD-TDD limitations due to different radio technologies. Samsung phones has the most advanced radio configs and thus supports the most carriers but have limitations on MIMO streams as in no 4x4 MIMO on any component carriers. Most other devices are FDD+TDD and some are FDD+TDD+TDD but again there are limitations on MIMO streams.  

Most of Sprints 1.9 network has 4x4 or 2x4 now live  and a large portion on 2.5 is 4x4  so that's a chunk of downlink capacity being traded off. It's a large balancing act and with the turnaround inside of Sprint and with the rudderless leadership, we can see why many projects do not come to fruition.  

FWIW, FDD+TDD was identified early in the industry on as one potential solution to slow uplink speeds years ago alongside uplink CA using higher order MIMO. It is not the end all solution but a very useful tool in the toolkit if they can figure out how to use it. 

What if they used it like this.

 

Good b41 coverage

[3xCA 4x4][2xCA upload]

 

Medium B41coverage -115dbm or worse

[b25+B41+B41]

4x4(B25)

2x4(B41)

 

Bad coverage [b26+B25]

4x2(B26)

4×4(B25)

 

I see no usefulness to these configurations.

B25+B26 since that's not much extra capacity and would make B26 worse on its own.

 

B26+B41 because at this point b41 would be almost useless anyway. Although there have been a few times Sprint pushed me to b26 indoors but b41 still works just not great.

 

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[Terrell352 2,662]

Sprint FDD/TDD spotted in Nokia market! B26+B41+B41 and B25+B25+B41

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[Tengen31 686]

Sprint FDD/TDD spotted in Nokia market! B26+B41+B41 and B25+B25+B41

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Nice. Is 8296 15x15?

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[Terrell352 2,662]

Nice. Is 8296 15x15?

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No a second 5mhz

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[Tengen31 686]

No a second 5mhz

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Oh. BBOOO. What market is that in? I don't know what block of spectrum that is either.

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