Poor 3G but great LTE?

[darickster09]

In the next few years, teenyboppers will look startled when you say 3g, because they will have no idea what it means.

 

Forget that, they already dont know what 1x is.  lol.  Let alone 3G.  Many already dont know what 3G actually is if they live in a city where LTE is everywhere. Which I know on sprint thats not totally true yet but on some carriers it is, and some teenyboppers as you said have never seen or heard of 1x or 3G sadly...

[BlueAngel]

3G is pretty much useless for me, 1+ years of having everything upgraded it still sucks. LTE or bust at this point.

[mrknowitall526]

In the next few years, teenyboppers will look startled when you say 3g, because they will have no idea what it means.

Like when the high schoolers I teach look at me like I'm from Mars when I talk about growing up in the 90s and early 2000s with dial up!

[reedacus25]

Wish that was the case in Baton Rouge. Verizon 3G doesn't hit 2+ anymore, but it's still at a very respectable 1-2 Mbps here. Sprint EVDO is still abysmal in Baton Rouge, often times resulting in zero throughput on NV accepted sites. I tried Tmo on the 1 week test run, and their speeds are fantastic when you are on LTE or HSPA, but they need more cell sites in the metro area like Sprint. They also don't even have a cell site in the immediate downtown area. So unfortunately, it's either ATT or Verizon here if you want a reliable cell phone experience. Truly a bummer.

I rarely venture downtown, but I've noticed how flaky the T-Mobile signal gets. Definitely need a bit of densification, which is ironic since T-Mobile's network is slightly denser the Sprint's last I checked. South of I-10 it pretty much works great. May fall down to HSPA+ but it's still extremely usable. Still haven't modernized Tiger Stadium as of a couple weeks back. Gonna be embarrassing for T-Mobile come a few weeks from now when the single HSPA carrier is underwater at the 100k+ stadium..

 

Back on topic, where it's found, Sprint's LTE is pretty robust in Mandeville. Just a Freedompop hotspot, but it works. Helps the drive through Mississippi in GPRS land (except MS-25 where Sprint never built native out..).

[joshuam]

The 3G sites in Baltimore that are also broadcasting LTE have great 3G speeds now. I can get 1.5Mbps or better on 3G sites that are upgraded.

[Xlegendxero]

i am somewhat skeptical that 3G speeds remain slow because more users are on 3G than LTE.

 

do the 3G cards at sites have a separate backhaul input than the 4G cards? or are they both on the same input? What I am getting at is could the install crew have left the 3G card connected to the T1s even though they went back to activate the LTE connection once the fiber backhaul was ready?

[S4GRU]

i am somewhat skeptical that 3G speeds remain slow because more users are on 3G than LTE.

 

do the 3G cards at sites have a separate backhaul input than the 4G cards? or are they both on the same input? What I am getting at is could the install crew have left the 3G card connected to the T1s even though they went back to activate the LTE connection once the fiber backhaul was ready?

 

The 3G is supposed to be connected to the new upgraded backhaul as the LTE, once the LTE is integrated.  Yes, it is possible that someone did not do that when they fired up the LTE.  However, most likely if 3G is still slow at a site where 3G & LTE have both been accepted, it probably is the EVDO airlink is saturated on that sector.  Or you could be connecting to a different 3G site than the LTE.

 

However, the new backhaul at a site is enough to power dozens if not 100's of EVDO carriers.  So new backhaul cannot get overwhelmed by any amount of traffic 3G gets.  Sprint is not likely going to be adding any more EVDO carriers to add 3G capacity.  Sprint is trying to deploy a second B25 (PCS LTE) carrier in as many markets as possible.  And adding even more EVDO carriers just makes that harder or impossible.

 

When it comes to spectrum resources, LTE will be given priority over 3G EVDO.

 

Robert

[burnout8488]

However, the new backhaul at a site is enough to power dozens if not 100's of EVDO carriers.  So new backhaul cannot get overwhelmed by any amount of traffic 3G gets.  Sprint is not likely going to be adding any more EVDO carriers to add 3G capacity.  Sprint is trying to deploy a second B25 (PCS LTE) carrier in as many markets as possible.  And adding even more EVDO carriers just makes that harder or impossible.

 

Now seems to be the right time to ask: Does another B25 carrier = another antenna? School me in the most basic terms if I am incorrect please! 

[S4GRU]

Now seems to be the right time to ask: Does another B25 carrier = another antenna? School me in the most basic terms if I am incorrect please! 

 

Nope.  Each antenna panel can support many B25 LTE carriers.  It just takes installing another B25 carrier card and have the spectrum to run it on.

 

Robert

[cdk]

Nope.  Each antenna panel can support many B25 LTE carriers.  It just takes installing another B25 carrier card and have the spectrum to run it on.

 

Robert

 

So when and where are the high capacity sites installed?

[lilotimz]

So when and where are the high capacity sites installed?

When Samsung needs to deploy additions cdma carriers which exceed the number that a single radio unit is capable of.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[burnout8488]

So when and where are the high capacity sites installed?

If Chicago is any indication, pretty much when B25 is completely useless. My guess is they monitor load for specific markets to see if B25 is maxed out, and make a call on whether B26/B41 will alleviate it. From the sounds of it, even with all 3 bands chugging along, Chicago still has some dreadful B25 in places. 

[Xlegendxero]

The 3G is supposed to be connected to the new upgraded backhaul as the LTE, once the LTE is integrated. Yes, it is possible that someone did not do that when they fired up the LTE. However, most likely if 3G is still slow at a site where 3G & LTE have both been accepted, it probably is the EVDO airlink is saturated on that sector. Or you could be connecting to a different 3G site than the LTE.

 

However, the new backhaul at a site is enough to power dozens if not 100's of EVDO carriers. So new backhaul cannot get overwhelmed by any amount of traffic 3G gets. Sprint is not likely going to be adding any more EVDO carriers to add 3G capacity. Sprint is trying to deploy a second B25 (PCS LTE) carrier in as many markets as possible. And adding even more EVDO carriers just makes that harder or impossible.

 

When it comes to spectrum resources, LTE will be given priority over 3G EVDO.

 

Robert

I do hope that is the case but it honestly doesn't explain why some towers in rural locations where the population is quite small, barely hits 1.0 Mbps and have LTE at about 15Mbps.

 

One location I went to recently had 32Mbps down on LTE but it can't even run a live data stream of 192Kbps on 3G. This particular site is located at Hwy 1 and Hilltop Road in Moss Landing California. Very rural, only some shipping businesses are located. there is no large population.

[S4GRU]

I do hope that is the case but it honestly doesn't explain why some towers in rural locations where the population is quite small, barely hits 1.0 Mbps and have LTE at about 15Mbps.

 

One location I went to recently had 32Mbps down on LTE but it can't even run a live data stream of 192Kbps on 3G. This particular site is located at Hwy 1 and Hilltop Road in Moss Landing California. Very rural, only some shipping businesses are located. there is no large population.

1Mbps is full speed on a post NV 3G site. One or two people doing some heavy duty usage on a 3G EVDO carrier can bog it down to 1Mbps. Three or four can take it down further.

 

Remember, a 3G EVDO carrier is like everyone connected to it is sharing one 3.1Mbps internet connection together. It doesn't take a lot to bog it down.

 

In the case of the Moss Landing site, if it was so rural and under utilized as you explain, then even a T1 connection could handle it. That signal either goes much farther than you realize having more people on it than just around the site or that site has a backhaul configuration problem. Or there is a problem with the EVDO carrier card or radio. Or you are running tests in an area with interference. Or some combination thereof.

 

And the best a Sprint 3G site will run is likely the day that it is connected to new Ethernet backhaul. Sprint 3G performance will likely go down from there. Because Sprint is not going to be adding many more 3G EVDO carriers to increase 3G capacity any longer. Sprint is saving any spare PCS spectrum for additional B25 LTE carriers. They may even decommission some EVDO carriers at busy sites to make room for more LTE capacity.

 

EVDO will become less and less common as B26 goes live and Triband devices become more common.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[Xlegendxero]

1Mbps is full speed on a post NV 3G site. One or two people doing some heavy duty usage on a 3G EVDO carrier can bog it down to 1Mbps. Three or four can take it down further.

 

Remember, a 3G EVDO carrier is like everyone connected to it is sharing one 3.1Mbps internet connection together. It doesn't take a lot to bog it down.

 

In the case of the Moss Landing site, if it was so rural and under utilized as you explain, then even a T1 connection could handle it. That signal either goes much farther than you realize having more people on it than just around the site or that site has a backhaul configuration problem. Or there is a problem with the EVDO carrier card or radio. Or you are running tests in an area with interference. Or some combination thereof.

 

And the best a Sprint 3G site will run is likely the day that it is connected to new Ethernet backhaul. Sprint 3G performance will likely go down from there. Because Sprint is not going to be adding many more 3G EVDO carriers to increase 3G capacity any longer. Sprint is saving any spare PCS spectrum for additional B25 LTE carriers. They may even decommission some EVDO carriers at busy sites to make room for more LTE capacity.

 

EVDO will become less and less common as B26 goes live and Triband devices become more common.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

The Moss Landing site is quite rural and under utilized but it could NOT handle the data stream. just want to clarify.

 

I know quite well that the theoretical max of 3.1 Mbps is being shared; it's just frustrating to be go from having 5+ Mbps LTE to barely 200 Kbps EVDO especially since I rely on my phone for my work to download maps and permits and reference other documents. Its quite embarrassing when I am doing an inspection and can't download the contact information for the property I am on.

 

On a positive note, I finally got a glimpse of Band 26. (don't know if i can say where since it might belong in the Premier Sponsor thread). Sadly the Band 26 only propagated as far as the Band 25 assuming it originated from the same site.

[BlueAngel]

The Moss Landing site is quite rural and under utilized but it could NOT handle the data stream. just want to clarify.

 

I know quite well that the theoretical max of 3.1 Mbps is being shared; it's just frustrating to be go from having 5+ Mbps LTE to barely 200 Kbps EVDO especially since I rely on my phone for my work to download maps and permits and reference other documents. Its quite embarrassing when I am doing an inspection and can't download the contact information for the property I am on.

 

On a positive note, I finally got a glimpse of Band 26. (don't know if i can say where since it might belong in the Premier Sponsor thread). Sadly the Band 26 only propagated as far as the Band 25 assuming it originated from the same site.

Same thing I am experiencing with b26, should get better when everything is optimized.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[S4GRU]

Sadly the Band 26 only propagated as far as the Band 25 assuming it originated from the same site.

Typically B26 is turned on at low power initially. So it is not unusual for B26 to have similar coverage, or sometimes even less than B25. Later crews come in, they will turn up the power and optimize the signal. Then B26 will reach to its furthest extent.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[The_Chemist]

Typically B26 is turned on at low power initially. So it is not unusual for B26 to have similar coverage, or sometimes even less than B25. Later crews come in, they will turn up the power and optimize the signal. Then B26 will reach to its furthest extent.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

I am experiencing this right now in Harrisburg PA (Shentel). 

[LoneSnark]

I went to Atlanta a week ago for DragonCon and saw very extreme behavior from excessive overloading. My phone spent nearly the entire time sitting on the 1x800 channel, which made texting a breeze. My friend on Verizon had trouble sending and receiving texts. 

 

But, Data was a different animal. EVDO would not even connect the entire time I was there. Not once. 60,000 young people on their phones crammed into a few city blocks made sure of that. No matter, LTE1900 phone...except, LTE was also insanely overloaded to the point my phone sometimes also refused to connect to LTE. Outside, no obstruction, full bars, and LTE would refuse to connect some of the time (cycling airplane mode would try again). It seems the towers were in triage mode, operating a lottery of which handsets were allowed to connect. When it would connect, the throughput was abysmal, 80kbps over LTE was the fastest I measured. 1x was useless for data, however, I don't think I ever got a single byte of data across on either CDMA band. 

[bretton88]

I went to Atlanta a week ago for DragonCon and saw very extreme behavior from excessive overloading. My phone spent nearly the entire time sitting on the 1x800 channel, which made texting a breeze. My friend on Verizon had trouble sending and receiving texts.

 

But, Data was a different animal. EVDO would not even connect the entire time I was there. Not once. 60,000 young people on their phones crammed into a few city blocks made sure of that. No matter, LTE1900 phone...except, LTE was also insanely overloaded to the point my phone sometimes also refused to connect to LTE. Outside, no obstruction, full bars, and LTE would refuse to connect some of the time (cycling airplane mode would try again). It seems the towers were in triage mode, operating a lottery of which handsets were allowed to connect. When it would connect, the throughput was abysmal, 80kbps over LTE was the fastest I measured. 1x was useless for data, however, I don't think I ever got a single byte of data across on either CDMA band.

Don't forget, it's not just DragonCon, but also a massive college football weekend down there too. So I'm sure no cell provider was having much success. And whatever happened to Tapatalk automatically cutting down quotes?

[lordsutch]

Even the Georgia Dome free WiFi network was creaking a couple of weeks ago when I was there for the Ole Miss-Boise State game. SMS seemed to be working OK on Sprint but data was hit-or-miss, no matter the LTE band (and I saw band 25, band 26, and Clear-legacy band 41 at various points).