Tmobile repurposing EDGE Network for LTE

[Terrell352]

I am a Sprint and tmobile lover even though I only use Sprint. One or the other needs to take the duopoly down. I am a underdog lover this is true. I do own a tmobile hotspot but I never use it. Also if tmobile does follow through I will personally fund one member to become a premier sponsor.

Yeah, if I win or lose, you have to reveal that you truly are a magenta lover.

 

AJ

[Bob Newhart]

Does T-Mobile play the blame game more or less than Sprint, when things don't go right due to lack of planning and over promising?

[S4GRU]

Does T-Mobile play the blame game more or less than Sprint, when things don't go right due to lack of planning and over promising?

 

Does Sprint play the blame game?  Or are you confusing our explanations with Sprint actively blaming?  Other than explaining the progress of Network Vision during investor updates, etc., I don't know if Sprint has a history of blaming.

 

Robert

[ericdabbs]

I am a Sprint and tmobile lover even though I only use Sprint. One or the other needs to take the duopoly down. I am a underdog lover this is true. I do own a tmobile hotspot but I never use it. Also if tmobile does follow through I will personally fund one member to become a premier sponsor.

 

We heard it first folks.  Let this go on record.  Why don't you use your tmobile hotspot?

[Terrell352]

I will stand by my promise. Hehe

We heard it first folks.  Let this go on record.

[Bob Newhart]

Does Sprint play the blame game?  Or are you confusing our explanations with Sprint actively blaming?  Other than explaining the progress of Network Vision during investor updates, etc., I don't know if Sprint has a history of blaming.

 

 

 

I think all companies do, especially when things don't go to plan, poor plans.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-blames-vendor-execution-reason-network-vision-delays/2013-05-07

[S4GRU]

I think all companies do, especially when things don't go to plan, poor plans.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-blames-vendor-execution-reason-network-vision-delays/2013-05-07

 

You made reference that Sprint goes around blaming more than Tmo.  My point is that Sprint does not go around 'blaming' and it's not like it is something they do with customers.  You reference a report of a SEC filing as an example.  That is a technical explanation to a government body.  Hardly an example of Sprint often blaming.  More of an example of a tech page digging up a story and broadcasting it as blame.

 

Robert

[Conan Kudo]

Am I the only one who thinks Tmo can upgrade backhaul to all its EDGE/GPRS sites in 2014?  I don't think Tmo will care if it is fiber to each of these sites.  They may even install bundled copper at many of them.  A lot of rural and low capacity sites could do just fine with bundled copper or a long daisy chain of microwave.  

 

If a rural EDGE site started running 4-6Mbps of LTE per sector instead of 100kbps connected to T1's, that would be a major triumph.  Sprint should consider something like that to their GMO's where fiber is going to be a long time coming.

 

If Tmo rushes out something to all these EDGE sites and then just organically over time upgrade them to fiber also, that wouldn't be a bad deployment strategy.  I would not be shocked if Tmo pulls this off.  All it takes is money and proper management.  I also would avoid CenturyLink and Windstream like the Plague.

 

Robert

I think you and I are the only ones who think it is possible. What a lot of people don't get is that most "rural" and "suburban" areas typically have a lot of dark or underutilized fiber that is ready to be used, usually along highways, state roads, public buildings, and schools.

 

And if the fiber isn't readily available, alternatives in the form of bonding multiple T3 lines, using coax backhaul, or microwave to a fiber node are all options available for T-Mobile to utilize while it waits for the fiber to reach the cell site.

 

You might be the only one because I disagree.  If backhaul constrained, T-Mobile should -- after years and years of neglect -- deploy W-CDMA to those sites.  W-CDMA has greater utility than LTE.  If T-Mobile does otherwise, then the celebrated magentan leadership is either stupid or just pandering to the LTE-penis crowd.

 

AJ

WCDMA is included, A.J. You know very well that T-Mobile is deploying SingleRAN gear that supports GSM, UMTS (HSPA+), and LTE. They're only talking up LTE because that's what everyone is interested in. And while I agree that it is a long time coming, you're being intentionally oblivious about how T-Mobile has been modernizing.

 

T-Mobile's upgrade comes down to these points:

• Full "rip-and-replace" SingleRAN (multi-mode, multi-band) modernization (just like Sprint!)
• Elimination of overlay networks for unified SingleRAN networks
• Backhaul upgrades to fiber by any means necessary
• If fiber isn't available immediately, other backhaul solutions are used in the mid-term

Of course, Neal Gompa thinks that T-Mobile can get this done in record time.  I am still not buying it.

 

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/178517-t-mobiles-lte-will-cover-250-million-people-in-2014-everywhere-in-the-us-by-2015

 

AJ

Of course I do. I know how it would be done, and I've talked to a few people about it, and they've confirmed it is definitely doable. 

 

A.J, you know that I live in Mississippi, a state that is widely known as the poorest in the union. Despite that, Mississippi is known to have the best state roads/freeways, and highways in the country, and has no less than six fiber backbone systems running through the entire state, and several places are getting a seventh one.

 

Do you know how easy it is to build infrastructure here? It's incredibly easy. There's little to no red tape, there's a lot of support from local governments (even if they can't contribute monetarily), and there's certainly plenty of cell sites to co-locate on. And if a new site needs to be built? Only an informal request to survey for siting is generally required, especially if it's on top of an existing structure. I won't say it is cheap, but it is rather painless compared to California, New York, Ohio, and other places.

 

Mississippi is not unique. This is generally true in >86% of T-Mobile's 2G only footprint. That does make the lack of UMTS more galling, but it also means that it should be possible to get it done relatively efficiently with the sheer amount of resources T-Mobile is pushing into it ($4.6 billion, large numbers of teams, etc.).

 

This is also why Sprint has been rolling out to the small towns first. It's quick, easy, and generally the clusters are smaller. Sprint's problem, though, is that it isn't willing to pressure its backhaul and infrastructure providers to meet and surpass goals. The company allows delay after delay from provides like CenturyLink and Windstream instead of replacing them after the first couple of problems from them, and accepts poor quality work from Ericsson without complaint. T-Mobile has never allowed such tomfoolery with its suppliers. Sprint needs to change this, ASAP.

[Paynefanbro]

The only thing that bothers me is T-Mobile's claim that they cover 301 Million Americans. They can claim that on a technicality because of roaming but that statement is not entirely true.

[MacinJosh]

The only thing that bothers me is T-Mobile's claim that they cover 301 Million Americans. They can claim that on a technicality because of roaming but that statement is not entirely true.

I don't even think T-Mobile haas enough roaming to cover 301 million.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5S using Tapatalk 2

[MarshieZ]

I don't even think T-Mobile haas enough roaming to cover 301 million.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5S using Tapatalk 2

 

I thought the same thing, I wonder how they got "that" number.

[richy]

I don't even think T-Mobile haas enough roaming to cover 301 million.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5S using Tapatalk 2

 

Tmobile changed to only allow very selective access to roaming. There is very little chance of that 301m number being vaguely accurate. I very much doubt that tweet or related comments actually came from Legererer, not to defend the annoying little tit, but it will have come from marketing and or whatever minion has the password to his twatter account. There are large areas in Hawai'i (on Maui alone there is ZERO coverage in North or East Maui and very spotty coverage via a whip antenna upcountry and no coverage between central and west Maui, unless you count 911 coverage via at&t which adds some of that back) where there is no tmo signal but there is at&t but you cannot roam at all anywhere I have found (hell you cannot even pay to roam which sucks). 301m would require almost universal coverage of the entire country, including all aboriginals in Alasksa, Hawai'i and the c48. I really just don't see it happening. Even if you said it's just for zero bars of voice coverage when you are stood on the roof of your house with a 65gb gain amp and a yogi, with the best will in the world, it wouldn't be close to 301. I think someone is double counting some roaming coverage somewhere i.e. they are adding tmobile and at&t and a regional where the at&t and regional overlap.

That or the marketing team spent the night snorting the dust out of the vacuum cleaner filter and just spewed that number out when asked.

Perhaps they just cover 1m people in Maryland (301) and misread the statement? 

[ericdabbs]

I think you and I are the only ones who think it is possible. What a lot of people don't get is that most "rural" and "suburban" areas typically have a lot of dark or underutilized fiber that is ready to be used, usually along highways, state roads, public buildings, and schools.

 

And if the fiber isn't readily available, alternatives in the form of bonding multiple T3 lines, using coax backhaul, or microwave to a fiber node are all options available for T-Mobile to utilize while it waits for the fiber to reach the cell site.

 

I agree as well.  I think its totally doable for Tmobile.  The old Tmobile pre-Legere is entirely different than new Tmobile with Legere.  Its like comparing any issues with Sprint assuming management from the old Sprint pre-Hesse and how new Sprint is with Hesse. Entirely different with Hesse.  I don't see Tmobile keeping their old 2G network especially with their game changer attitude.  If they do pull this off, it might force AT&T to shut down its 2G network quicker too.  2G is a complete waste of spectrum and 2G is on the way of the dodo.  I see Tmobile being aggressive with their campaign to refarm PCS spectrum to LTE (most likely a 5x5 block since the majority of PCS still needs to be for HSPA+).

 

So far Tmobile has been doing well in their execution of their Uncarrier campaign as well as capturing new customers.   They certainly are making the right moves including picking up 700 MHz in Jan to add some low band spectrum into their portfolio.  Right now though Sprint does need to pick up the pace because it has fallen behind on NV.  Hopefully by mid 2014 there will be a decent B41 LTE network and B26 LTE has really picked up (too slow of a rollout IMO especially when it was touted heavily for saving on costs and enhancing customer experience and really using that old Nextel spectrum for LTE).

[lordsutch]

FWIW this weekend in the Carolinas and Georgia I saw a lot of EDGE in places where Sprint has LTE or at least native EVDO, and very few places where there was even T-Mobile FauxG with weaker Sprint coverage (1x/EVDO/roaming) - really only around Florence SC where Sprint's buildout has been slow.

 

The good news for Magenta is that if Sprint can get backhaul to these sites, they should be able to do so too, but the bad news is that I can't imagine it'll be much faster for T-Mobile to roll out than it was for Sprint; they'll still be dealing with the likes of Windstream, CenturyTel, and mom-and-pop/coop telcos.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

 

[bucdenny]

FWIW this weekend in the Carolinas and Georgia I saw a lot of EDGE in places where Sprint has LTE or at least native EVDO, and very few places where there was even T-Mobile FauxG with weaker Sprint coverage (1x/EVDO/roaming) - really only around Florence SC where Sprint's buildout has been slow.

 

The good news for Magenta is that if Sprint can get backhaul to these sites, they should be able to do so too, but the bad news is that I can't imagine it'll be much faster for T-Mobile to roll out than it was for Sprint; they'll still be dealing with the likes of Windstream, CenturyTel, and mom-and-pop/coop telcos.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

If T-Mobile is located on the same site with Sprint, wouldn't it be easier to get back haul from the same provider?  Since the fiber has been built out already, simply just tapping into it.  Same has done here in San Diego, AT&T mobility site with fiber, Sprint had ordered AT&T back haul which was tapped from same feed.

[JossMan]

If T-Mobile is located on the same site with Sprint, wouldn't it be easier to get back haul from the same provider?  Since the fiber has been built out already, simply just tapping into it.  Same has done here in San Diego, AT&T mobility site with fiber, Sprint had ordered AT&T back haul which was tapped from same feed.

This will depend on what vendors are available whether its AT&T, CenturyLink, Comcast, or some type of municipal fiber provider and if they will be able to serve T-Mobile's needs.  Even if providers are co-located on the same cell site they don't necessarily use the same backhaul vendor, the situation is different at each cell site.  I know a few sites around here where Verizon is using Windstream and Sprint is CenturyLink.     

[dontsh00tmesanta]

I think once tmobile finishes this and 700mhz while sprint completes its spark with 800/1900/2500 they will be competing against each other not the big guys.

[Deval]

I think once tmobile finishes this and 700mhz while sprint completes its spark with 800/1900/2500 they will be competing against each other not the big guys.

 

Considering their 700mhz holdings are almost useless, I can't see that happening unless T-Mobile increases their cell density in the outlying areas. 

[dontsh00tmesanta]

700mhz will be used in chan 51 less areas and as 700mhz propagates better......

 

Once that issue is solved they can deploy but it's all speculation. I think the next 2 years will be interesting for both carriers and I'm rooting for my wallet

[Deval]

700mhz will be used in chan 51 less areas and as 700mhz propagates better......

 

Once that issue is solved they can deploy but it's all speculation. I think the next 2 years will be interesting for both carriers and I'm rooting for my wallet

 

Yep, it will help in areas where they have the majority of their user base. 

[dontsh00tmesanta]

The metro areas have ch51

 

So they will have to deploy the rest for now and they look to be rural