Tmobile repurposing EDGE Network for LTE

[WiWavelength]

But we know why that is the case already. This deployment is a whole new ball game.

Play ball! Strike one!

 

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

Did sprint already say 800LTE will cover 150 million Pops by end of this year?

 

This is why I said earlier sprint should take this announcement and really over deliver their deployments for 800/2600.

 

Do I personally think tmobile will pull it off? maybe. Who knows we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Sprint will not be able to deploy Band 26 over all the same number of B25 POP's because of the IBEZ.  I'm not sure what the maximum number is, but it may not be a whole lot higher than 150M.  150M may be 75% of B26 deployed.  Which wouldn't be too bad.  However, I don't see why they can't have B26 complete at every B25 that is live, outside the IBEZ.

 

Robert

[JThorson]

I encourage Sprint to raise the bar further though by a strategic network expansion, starting with unique iDEN and WiMax Protection Sites and aggressively installing SMR 800 nationwide.

 

If Sprint can get its nationwide LTE 800 (B26) out nationwide before Tmo can even start deploying its select LTE 700, then Sprint will do just fine. It seems Sprint is finally starting to gather steam and Masa's influence is starting to be felt.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

If Magenta is using MW to get quick backhaul in place until Fiber can be run or if they previously ordered fiber and its in process, then they could easily make this type of claim and back it up.

 

Robert is 100% correct, Sprint needs to go after unique Nextel and Clear sites and upgrade them to full NV.  Sprint also needs to keep pushing SMR for voice, getting it fully deployed.

I hope Sprint will do this. With upgrading those sites, their network would be stronger. I hope they have at least considered that as an option. 

[kyle_4thousand]

I really hope these next 12 months are those month we've ALLLLL been waiting for. I want to see 2k+ site acceptances for B26 a month. I want b25 done already in all the areas it can be. Everywhere else just do what you have to do. B41 needs to become a plague. People need to start saying, wow! You're pages load so fast. Your videos are so HD, your voice is so clear. Such wow, such fast, so awe. And you're on Sprint? Who would've known ( except for that ugly spinning logo)

 

People have been waiting for Sprint to light the beacons of Spark. Break the dams, release the river of LTE!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk

 

 

sorry, I just had to. 

[bcltoys]

 

• Complete upgraded backhaul to every Sprint site

I would like to see this and you would like to see,but do you think it's going to happen having to deal with company's the like's of Verizon and Comcast who hold the backhaul card's in a lot of these poker game's. T'mobile will have to deal with these crook's also. Whoop's forgot AT&T

[S4GRU]

I would like to see this and you would like to see,but do you think it's going to happen having to deal with company's the like's of Verizon and Comcast who hold the backhaul card's in a lot of these poker game's. T'mobile will have to deal with these crook's also. Whoop's forgot AT&T

 

They can use alternative access vendors, especially microwave.  There are other options.  It can be done, but it may be more expensive.  But paying for T1's to ILEC's is outrageous too.

 

Robert

[centermedic]

I may not fully understand the whole backhaul story, but if Verizon has advanced backhaul to their rural sites why can't other carriers also get the backhaul there.  Some of these rural areas have to be on the same tower as well.  I mean I understand Sprint is having a tough time getting backhaul to many of their towers (even here in the NYC market), but what can be done to speed this up?  It is definitely an interesting time in the wireless market.  Finally starting to see decent competition among the four major carriers.

It took Verizon 3-4 years to  complete the LTE overlay. Pretty safe bet that some of those rural back haul orders went in years ago.

[centermedic]

Did sprint already say 800LTE will cover 150 million Pops by end of this year?

 

This is why I said earlier sprint should take this announcement and really over deliver their deployments for 800/2600.

 

Do I personally think tmobile will pull it off? maybe. Who knows we'll just have to wait and see.

This is the problem I have and why I like Roberts idea of farming over Softbank employees. IIRC 800 mhz is just a trip to the tower  and swapping some cards. There is no reason that Sprint cannot get 800 mhz to every NV upgraded tower. 150 million pops is really undershooting what is reasonably possible.

[bcltoys]

Robert I think a 1000 people from Softbank/Japan is the tip of the iceberg should be more like 10,000.

[jamisonshaw125]

This is the problem I have and why I like Roberts idea of farming over Softbank employees. IIRC 800 mhz is just a trip to the tower and swapping some cards. There is no reason that Sprint cannot get 800 mhz to every NV upgraded tower. 150 million pops is really undershooting what is reasonably possible.

This x 1000

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk

[utiz4321]

Folks...getting backhaul to rural areas is often easier. Fiber runs along most major highways close to sites. Getting fiber to highway and rural sites is typically easier than urban areas. And the ones that are more difficult can be bridged with microwave.

 

If Tmo spends the money and effort, they could quite handily equip all their rural sites with upgraded backhaul before the end of 2014. Then it could spend 2015 upgrading them with their new LTE 700 spectrum, and at least AWS LTE (B4) in the places where they cannot yet do LTE 700 A Block (half the country).

 

We will see how much they actually accomplish this year. I'm with AJ...don't overread too much into this and the Tmo spin machine. Sprint could be done with their LTE 1900 and LTE 800 network wide by the end of 2014 before Tmo really gets any wind at their back. However, Masa needs to make sure of it. Tmo cannot be allowed to get ahead on this one too starting so late.

 

By the end of 2014, Sprint needs to do the following:

• Complete upgraded backhaul to every Sprint site
• Get LTE 1900 and LTE 800 complete
• Get B41 (LTE 2600/Spark) at all Clearwire sites
• Get B41 well covering non Clearwire Top 100 markets
• Get B41 deployed on every NV B25 site that is overcapacity (no matter which market)
• Get B25 2nd carrier installed everywhere where overcapacity and spectrum availability allows (including minor refarming if necessary)

They should also consider:

• Add all iDEN sites that would add new coverage to include a full NV upgrade with CDMA/LTE
• Convert all WiMax Protection Sites that would add new coverage to include a full NV upgrade with CDMA/LTE
• Convert all Clearwire Expedience Sites that would add new coverage to include a full NV upgrade with CDMA/LTE
• Convert the few hundred WiMax sites in urban areas that would fill in/add coverage to include a full NV upgrade with CDMA/other bands of LTE

If they need to bring in another 1,000 SoftBank employees from Japan to run this for Sprint, then so be it! Time to get on with the show. Masa cannot wait to compete with Tmo after the Feds refuse a buy out. They need to plan as if there is an all out battle for 3rd place. Because there is. Sprint will lose its 3rd place to Tmo if they don't focus on network. Network quality/coverage is now the differentiator between providers. The price difference between Tmo, Sprint and AT&T are now not very significant for most consumers.

 

Robert

You should just shoot that in an email to Dan and the new head of network. If they followed it, the bulk of sprint's problems would be solved.

[utiz4321]

I think the problem at sprint is that 2.6 gives them capabilities none of the other carriers can match until VoLTE and all their spectrum is dedicated to lte, even then 2.6 gives them an edge in some ways (like 8t8r) and sprint knows it. So I think management believes they have all the time in the world because at the end of the day they will have a network with capablities the others can't match.

 

It kind of reminds me of their attitude when WiMAX was being rolled out. They though they would have a first mover advantage, spent a lot on demos (like the 1 gig demos they keep doing ) and took years on a particial roll out. Now the reason WiMAX was only partially rolled out was a lack of fund and that is not the problem now, it is still striking how similar their strategy for WiMAX and 2.6 lte are (3 years to cover 100 markets is what I am think of). In the end this didn't add anything to sprints bottom line because in my opinion the competition didn't simple stand still (and sprints competitors were better capitalized) and match then surpassed sprints efforts in a short period of time with vzw's lte and HSDPA+ for ATT and tmobile.

 

I think sprint needs to not be so worried about showing off what they can do in the lab and worry about what the can show off in the real world. They need to make that move in mind set in order to be successful.

 

I know it is not really popular to quote tmobile's CEO on this site but he might have had a point when he said sprint is a pile of spectrum waiting for a network.

[JustinRP37]

In the end this didn't add anything to sprints bottom line because in my opinion the competition didn't simple stand still (and sprints competitors were better capitalized) and match then surpassed sprints efforts in a short period of time with vzw's lte and HSDPA+ for ATT and tmobile.

 

I think sprint needs to not be so worried about showing off what they can do in the lab and worry about what the can show off in the real world. They need to make that move in mind set in order to be successful.

 

I know it is not really popular to quote tmobile's CEO on this site but he might have had a point when he said sprint is a pile of spectrum waiting for a network.

This is exactly my thoughts.  The competition is not going to stand still.  It keeps getting hotter and the battle for third is now more intense than the battle for first (at the current time).

[ericdabbs]

This is good news for Tmobile customers and everyone in general.  We should be rooting that Tmobile is trying to fix its 2G network to LTE to be more competitive.  Hopefully it fuels Son and Dan to really step up their game quickly to fix Sprint to compete with Tmobile.  With NV being behind by a quarter if not longer its hard not to think that Sprint got complacent.  Sprint really needs to get a kick in the rear to step it up because it just seems like Sprint will not meet its mid 2014 dates to complete NV since there are still plenty of markets that have yet to be started.

 

But then again the mid 2015 date seems rather aggressive and I still need to see Tmobile actually back up what they are saying.

[Destroyallcubes]

Well supposedly Tmobile is trying to sue Verizon for showing the magenta "4g" network as bad. They are trying to pull an ATT with the old Verizon 3g maps commercial. But it sounds like Tmobile is butt hurt, and trying to find cash anywhere it can. Must be for their new rollout to Edge sites

[irev210]

Am I the only one who thinks Tmo can upgrade backhaul to all its EDGE/GPRS sites in 2014?  I don't think Tmo will care if it is fiber to each of these sites.  They may even install bundled copper at many of them.  A lot of rural and low capacity sites could do just fine with bundled copper or a long daisy chain of microwave.  

 

If a rural EDGE site started running 4-6Mbps of LTE per sector instead of 100kbps connected to T1's, that would be a major triumph.  Sprint should consider something like that to their GMO's where fiber is going to be a long time coming.

 

If Tmo rushes out something to all these EDGE sites and then just organically over time upgrade them to fiber also, that wouldn't be a bad deployment strategy.  I would not be shocked if Tmo pulls this off.  All it takes is money and proper management.  I also would avoid CenturyLink and Windstream like the Plague.

 

Robert

 

I can only go off what T-Mobile has historically said and the end result.

 

Historically, T-Mobile has been able to deliver what they told customers/investors/DK ahead of schedule and on-budget.

 

I mean, you make a good point, maybe they signed much different contracts for backhaul or have a vastly different backhaul infrastructure than sprint does.  Maybe Sprint's backhaul issues are their own - perhaps poorly constructed backhaul contracts with flexible terms were signed.

 

I guess I just look forward to comparing/contrasting against the two companies.

 

 

There is no doubt that Sprint's (as they call it) "rip and replace" all towers turned T-Mobile into doing the same thing.  It's funny that they copied sprint by adding a $10 increase to fund the network expansion.

 

The fact that T-Mobile is going to have LTE covering 301MM pops sounds insane.  I get the feeling they are going to bank a lot on the 600MHz auction to actually make that ~300MM actually have coverage between towers, etc.

 

2014/2015 wireless warz are on.

 

T-Mobile is taking the most business risk they've taken on in years.  They must be feeling VERY good about things.  If gross adds slow down or churn ticks up, they could be very pressured on the margins.

[Paynefanbro]

I can only go off what T-Mobile has historically said and the end result.

 

Historically, T-Mobile has been able to deliver what they told customers/investors/DK ahead of schedule and on-budget.

 

I mean, you make a good point, maybe they signed much different contracts for backhaul or have a vastly different backhaul infrastructure than sprint does.  Maybe Sprint's backhaul issues are their own - perhaps poorly constructed backhaul contracts with flexible terms were signed.

 

I guess I just look forward to comparing/contrasting against the two companies.

 

 

There is no doubt that Sprint's (as they call it) "rip and replace" all towers turned T-Mobile into doing the same thing.  It's funny that they copied sprint by adding a $10 increase to fund the network expansion.

 

The fact that T-Mobile is going to have LTE covering 301MM pops sounds insane.  I get the feeling they are going to bank a lot on the 600MHz auction to actually make that ~300MM actually have coverage between towers, etc.

 

2014/2015 wireless warz are on.

 

T-Mobile is taking the most business risk they've taken on in years.  They must be feeling VERY good about things.  If gross adds slow down or churn ticks up, they could be very pressured on the margins.

I'm 99% sure that the 301 Million POP number is roaming and native combined.

[irev210]

I'm 99% sure that the 301 Million POP number is roaming and native combined.

 

 

You are definitely correct.  I think the native T-Mob footprint is about 285MM POPS.

 

Add in rural roaming agreements that will be moving to LTE (quoted from PC Mag interview):

 

 

Not all of T-Mobile's coverage is actually T-Mobile's. About 17 million people are covered by rural carriers that T-Mobile has deals with, and many of them have been holding back on installing LTE because of worries that phones won't become available for their Band 12 spectrum, Ray said. But now that AT&T has agreed to make its phones Band 12 compatible, those rural carriers will roll out LTE and T-Mobile will reap the benefits, he said.

 

That's 285MM + 17MM = ~302MM POP

 

That's how you get to your 301MM with LTE.  Formidable.

[Paynefanbro]

You are definitely correct.  I think the native T-Mob footprint is about 285MM POPS.

 

Add in rural roaming agreements that will be moving to LTE (quoted from PC Mag interview):

 

 

 

That's 285MM + 17MM = ~302MM POP

 

That's how you get to your 301MM with LTE.  Formidable.

 

I don't even think they serve that many people. broadbandmap.gov states otherwise.

[irev210]

I don't even think they serve that many people. broadbandmap.gov states otherwise.

 

We also can't really talk about how robust the coverage actually is, either.

 

POPs are a poor metric for coverage, but it's what the industry is used to using...

 

I doubt T-mobile would lie about how many pops they cover... but you can really stretch the truth on how WELL those pops are covered.

 

If none of them move, stand outside, and hold their phone up in the air, they have coverage!  Which obviously isn't the case.

[Vince]

 

Only 50% by the end of this year? I guess that's more attainable than 100%.

[maxsilver]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1394820769.688524.jpg

 

Only 50% by the end of this year? I guess that's more attainable than 100%.

 

That's the same number they mention in their official press release.

 

"T-Mobile is now kicking off a major new program to upgrade its 2G/EDGE network with 4G LTE. The company plans to complete 50 percent of the work this year alone"

[WiWavelength]

Of course, Neal Gompa thinks that T-Mobile can get this done in record time.  I am still not buying it.

 

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/178517-t-mobiles-lte-will-cover-250-million-people-in-2014-everywhere-in-the-us-by-2015

 

AJ

[Terrell352]

Shall we make a wager?

Of course, Neal Gompa thinks that T-Mobile can get this done in record time. I am still not buying it.

 

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/178517-t-mobiles-lte-will-cover-250-million-people-in-2014-everywhere-in-the-us-by-2015

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

Shall we make a wager?

 

Yeah, if I win or lose, you have to reveal that you truly are a magenta lover.

 

AJ