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bandwithhog

Will WiMax really go away or may stay...

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I found this while looking at FreedomPop's site and followed some of the links. It seems like that FP is part of connect2compete.org and they offer services for schools and other non-profits via mobilecitizen.org.

 

Now I found this on their website:

 

Mobile Citizen's wireless broadband is powered by WiMAX, a 4G technology from CLEAR. In 2006, CLEAR entered into a 30-year excess capacity agreement with the five EBS licensees which established Mobile Citizen. This agreement allows Mobile Citizen to offer advanced mobile broadband service exclusively to schools and nonprofits, helping to further learning and productivity by providing internet access beyond the classroom or office. Mobile Citizen has been providing its low-cost mobile Internet services since 2009.

 

 

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Now their prices are really great and $120 for unlimited Internet is not bad. But will they transistion to LTE eventually or will Sprint / Clearwire keep some WiMax runnung which covers their EBS licensees?

 

 

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The lease is just to broadcast over said airwaves, the airlink matters little.

 

As long as it covers the same or more people they will maintain the floor of pops covered for use in BRS. EBS is a lease from the current license holders, so I imagine they have no essential use it or lose it time/coverage stipulation unless this is spelled out in that lease. They could simply use LTE instead. It is a more stable, and as in the name longer term technology. Fazing out Wimax to free these airwaves is the best utilization for future capacity, speed, and growth.

 

Unless, again, of course this lease stipulates a certain technology to support a license holder as well. I.e. Sprint gets to use the license if they provide a carrier to a university or institution, but better to just upgrade that carrier. So I sure see it as being phased out. Sooner the better, as the company has stated they will.

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The lease is just to broadcast over said airwaves, the airlink matters little.

 

As long as it covers the same or more people they will maintain the floor of pops covered for use in BRS. EBS is a lease from the current license holders, so I imagine they have no essential use it or lose it time/coverage stipulation unless this is spelled out in that lease. They could simply use LTE instead. It is a more stable, and as in the name longer term technology. Fazing out Wimax to free these airwaves is the best utilization for future capacity, speed, and growth.

 

Unless, again, of course this lease stipulates a certain technology to support a license holder as well. I.e. Sprint gets to use the license if they provide a carrier to a university or institution, but better to just upgrade that carrier. So I sure see it as being phased out. Sooner the better, as the company has stated they will.

 

That would be good to know because I looked it up for several markets and Las Vegas is one served by CM. Still their price is really great and from what I have seen, pretty much every person quilfies for their service. $120/yr for unlimited Internet would be really great. Brings back memories of my $3.33/month Boost Berry with Free Data :-)

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That would be good to know because I looked it up for several markets and Las Vegas is one served by CM. Still their price is really great and from what I have seen, pretty much every person quilfies for their service. $120/yr for unlimited Internet would be really great. Brings back memories of my $3.33/month Boost Berry with Free Data :-)

I stumbled across Mobile Citizen previously and was under the impression this was for non-profit organizations. Has something changed?

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I stumbled across Mobile Citizen previously and was under the impression this was for non-profit organizations. Has something changed?

 

Not sure but I will try to sign up after the Holidays :-)

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Not sure but I will try to sign up after the Holidays :-)

Your own quote above says they provide service exclusively to schools and non-profits...

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Your own quote above says they provide service exclusively to schools and non-profits...

 

That was my first impression too but it seems they opend the system a bit depending on your zip code. Let's see what happens because you can bring old Clearwire equipment to their service and I still have an old hotsopt in reserve.

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With deployment of LTE, will sprint/clearwire-combined tower be the last to get LTE on it?  I am currently connected to a LTE tower exactly one mile from my house.  Now, there is a sprint/clearwire tower with wimax on it that is about 0.6 mile from my house that I am hoping for LTE but have not seen anything done to it yet.  Will it be last to get LTE?  

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With deployment of LTE, will sprint/clearwire-combined tower be the last to get LTE on it? I am currently connected to a LTE tower exactly one mile from my house. Now, there is a sprint/clearwire tower with wimax on it that is about 0.6 mile from my house that I am hoping for LTE but have not seen anything done to it yet. Will it be last to get LTE?

It wont be the last to get LTE because sprint and clearwire have a goal to upgrade their clearwire towers over the entire Wimax network with LTE first before beginning to expand 2.5 ghz LTE to sprints own 39K towers.

 

Sent from my LG G2 LS980 using Tapatalk

 

 

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Okay.  It seems this morning when I check online, the sprint/clearwire-combined tower that is about 0.6 miles from me is now LTE.  I went to check my phone but it is still connected to the LTE tower that is 1 mile away.  Could it be possible that the LTE sprint/clearwire site is on 2.5ghz LTE so my old galaxy s4 can't pick it up?  I was hoping for better signal and speed since the sprint/clearwire tower is closer; am I wrong to assume this?

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Okay. It seems this morning when I check online, the sprint/clearwire-combined tower that is about 0.6 miles from me is now LTE. I went to check my phone but it is still connected to the LTE tower that is 1 mile away. Could it be possible that the LTE sprint/clearwire site is on 2.5ghz LTE so my old galaxy s4 can't pick it up? I was hoping for better signal and speed since the sprint/clearwire tower is closer; am I wrong to assume this?

If you don't have the new spark capable GS4-T that came out in the past few weeks, you will not be getting Band 41 LTE with your GS4. You would only be capable of Band 25 LTE.

 

We have maps in the Premier Sponsor section that show Band 41 LTE deployment.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

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Check this http://mobilecitizen.org/

 

They said they have a 30-year agreement with Clear..... I am not sure if Sprint would keep that agreement.

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Check this http://mobilecitizen.org/

 

They said they have a 30-year agreement with Clear..... I am not sure if Sprint would keep that agreement.

Not likely, at least a WiMax agreement anyway. Sprint didn't have to keep any agreements when they purchased Clear. They either gave them a new agreement that ends with the end of the WiMax network, or possibly, they have worked out a new long term LTE deal with them keeping WiMax in the interim.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

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Not likely, at least a WiMax agreement anyway. Sprint didn't have to keep any agreements when they purchased Clear. They either gave them a new agreement that ends with the end of the WiMax network, or possibly, they have worked out a new long term LTE deal with them keeping WiMax in the interim.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

They will switch to LTE as long Sprint wants to maintain the leased spectrum eventually.

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They will switch to LTE as long Sprint wants to maintain the leased spectrum eventually.

 

I didn't realize that Mobile Citizen was actually an amalgamation of five EBS license lessors.  I thought they were just a non profit wholesaler.  To give some background, EBS is licensed from the FCC to schools, school districts, colleges and universities and other educational non-profits.  EBS licensees can lease out the spare spectrum capacities of their licenses to other entities.  Clearwire (and now Sprint) is the lessee of these licenses.  

 

These EBS licenses are now tied up for 30 years to Sprint, and Sprint can do whatever they want to with their leased licenses (as allowed by the FCC).  Sprint doesn't provide additional spare network capacity of theirs back to the school.  That isn't the spare capacity being referenced on their website.  The school gave them a lease of their initial spare spectrum.  And it is a set amount.  They cannot change the amount that is spare during the lease period.  So, even if Sprint pulls the WiMax network, it will not likely cancel the lease.  However, it sure would probably not make the lessor want to renew the lease in 30 years.

 

What has happened here for Mobile Citizen, is these 5 EBS licensees banded together and are providing non profit service using a wholesale agreement on the WiMax network.  And they can continue to use the WiMax network as long as it is operational.  They may even pay Sprint for their use of this service.  If so, it would go to offset their EBS lease income from Sprint.  And the wholesale rate is probably much lower than everyone else pays.  Also, Clearwire often did offer free or reduced cost service back to the schools who leased them the spectrum as a means to try to sweeten the pot.  And this may even be a part of that deal.

 

They may even work out a deal to use the future Band 41 LTE network.  Or, if Sprint doesn't want them on their LTE network, they could either let the deal die with WiMax decommissioning, or even keep WiMax operating past the sunset in these five EBS license areas.  They have lots of options.  However, Sprint does not give spare WiMax capacity back to Mobile Citizen.  That is a misunderstanding.

 

And either way, this use is just for the 5 EBS license holders, their staff, and some other educational non profits that they want to offer service to.  This is not a big draw on the network.  And it is not an open door for the general public.  Sprint will probably negotiate a deal that works for both of them.  But not for you.  ;)

 

Robert

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In looking at the EBS licensees that make up Mobile Citizen, they have EBS licenses in Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Portland, Denver and Northern Colorado.  These are important markets for Sprint to maintain EBS.  They will keep these licensees happy.  But it will likely not benefit any people who have visions of keeping the Sprint/Clearwire WiMax service.

 

Robert

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In looking at the EBS licensees that make up Mobile Citizen, they have EBS licenses in Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Portland, Denver and Northern Colorado.  These are important markets for Sprint to maintain EBS.  They will keep these licensees happy.  But it will likely not benefit any people who have visions of keeping the Sprint/Clearwire WiMax service.

 

Robert

 

Yes. And Mobile CItizen sell those WiMax service at a rate of $10 / month

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Yes. And Mobile CItizen sell those WiMax service at a rate of $10 / month

Not to the general public.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

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It doesn't sell it to public directly. But via another partner http://www.connectednation.org/low-cost-broadband

And that one is a wholesale WiMax partner. This one will sunset with WiMax. Unless Sprint ends up offering Band 41 wholesale like WiMax.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

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And that one is a wholesale WiMax partner. This one will sunset with WiMax. Unless Sprint ends up offering Band 41 wholesale like WiMax.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

In all likelihood they will. At least from the recent press releases it seems that they are definitely interested. I know a number of rural dwellers that would jump at that opportunity. Fixed wireless should be easier to plan and maintain towers for even if they are heavy users, correct?

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In all likelihood they will. At least from the recent press releases it seems that they are definitely interested. I know a number of rural dwellers that would jump at that opportunity. Fixed wireless should be easier to plan and maintain towers for even if they are heavy users, correct?

 

So far there is no hint, press release or otherwise, that Sprint is opening up its Band 41 TDD-LTE network for fixed internet service.  The only mention so far is a joint venture network test with Dish in Corpus Christi, Texas.  However, that is a separate network and not tied to Sprint's Band 41 network.  In the joint venture, a customer of one is not automatically a user of the other from either direction.  

 

It may change after the joint venture test and grow into something else.  However, at this point, there is nothing official or credible that says that Sprint will open up their Band 41 network for home/business ISP usage.  And I think that it would stay that way until possibly they can deploy 4x4 or 8x8 MIMO and Band 41 Carrier Aggregation.  Then they could possibly stand a chance to support the kind of traffic that a fixed ISP service would put on the network.  

 

And if they do, it would likely not be an interchangeable mobile/fixed solution.  You likely would have a separate fixed ISP account, and it will likely have limits.  If there ends up being an unlimited option, it won't be $49.  There would likely be data tiers, like $50 for 10GB, $75 for 25GB and $100+ for unlimited.  Something along those lines.

 

You can forget a Clearwire-like ISP offering on LTE by Sprint.  Clearwire ISP business was hemorrhaging money.  The model was unsustainable and destined for bankruptcy.  No way in the world someone as shrewd and smart as Masayoshi Son would allow a Clearwire business model repeated.  

 

If Sprint offers a wireless LTE ISP in the future, you can count on a few things:

  1. It will be more expensive
  2. It will have data tiers
  3. It will have enough limits that it will not impact the network performance for smartphone users
  4. It will be used to draw more postpaid subscribers to its standard network and increase revenues, not be a burden to the network or capex
  5. It will not be a new place for data abusers to hang out

Sprint doesn't want to keep or attract data abusers.  They are too expensive.  They want to lure all those lucrative customers who are used to data tiers now at Verizon and AT&T back.  If you can give them unlimited smartphone use and a tiered data home ISP for the same amount or less than Verizon does just for smartphone, it would be very attractive.

 

No one should be holding their breath or counting on a Clearwire customer experience on Sprint LTE.  It will look nothing like it.  If it even happens at all.  If the Corpus Christi trial is a bust, they may run from it all together.

 

Let's not forget that Verizon and T-Mobile are deploying 20MHz channels in many markets around the country now.  Sprint has to compete with that.  It would be foolish for Sprint to allow their 20MHz channels bog down with home use while their competitors tout speeds and capacity advantages.

 

Robert

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So far there is no hint, press release or otherwise, that Sprint is opening up its Band 41 TDD-LTE network for fixed internet service.  The only mention so far is a joint venture network test with Dish in Corpus Christi, Texas.  However, that is a separate network and not tied to Sprint's Band 41 network.  In the joint venture, a customer of one is not automatically a user of the other from either direction.  

 

It may change after the joint venture test and grow into something else.  However, at this point, there is nothing official or credible that says that Sprint will open up their Band 41 network for home/business ISP usage.  And I think that it would stay that way until possibly they can deploy 4x4 or 8x8 MIMO and Band 41 Carrier Aggregation.  Then they could possibly stand a chance to support the kind of traffic that a fixed ISP service would put on the network.  

 

And if they do, it would likely not be an interchangeable mobile/fixed solution.  You likely would have a separate fixed ISP account, and it will likely have limits.  If there ends up being an unlimited option, it won't be $49.  There would likely be data tiers, like $50 for 10GB, $75 for 25GB and $100+ for unlimited.  Something along those lines.

 

You can forget a Clearwire-like ISP offering on LTE by Sprint.  Clearwire ISP business was hemorrhaging money.  The model was unsustainable and destined for bankruptcy.  No way in the world someone as shrewd and smart as Masayoshi Son would allow a Clearwire business model repeated.  

 

If Sprint offers a wireless LTE ISP in the future, you can count on a few things:

  1. It will be more expensive
  2. It will have data tiers
  3. It will have enough limits that it will not impact the network performance for smartphone users
  4. It will be used to draw more postpaid subscribers to its standard network and increase revenues, not be a burden to the network or capex
  5. It will not be a new place for data abusers to hang out

Sprint doesn't want to keep or attract data abusers.  They are too expensive.  They want to lure all those lucrative customers who are used to data tiers now at Verizon and AT&T back.  If you can give them unlimited smartphone use and a tiered data home ISP for the same amount or less than Verizon does just for smartphone, it would be very attractive.

 

No one should be holding their breath or counting on a Clearwire customer experience on Sprint LTE.  It will look nothing like it.  If it even happens at all.  If the Corpus Christi trial is a bust, they may run from it all together.

 

Let's not forget that Verizon and T-Mobile are deploying 20MHz channels in many markets around the country now.  Sprint has to compete with that.  It would be foolish for Sprint to allow their 20MHz channels bog down with home use while their competitors tout speeds and capacity advantages.

 

Robert

 

Considering all the spectrum Sprint gained from Clearwire, how much is really in use at the moment and why not keep WiMax going. There is little or no capex to continue to run this network and if Sprint has on average 100 Mhz of Spectrum or more across the U.S. what's the rush to shut down WiMax? Why not utilize the 80 MHz not in use at the moment?

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