Breaking Band: Tri-band LTE / eCSFB issues thread

[transitwatch889]

Anyone within a market where GCI(HEX SCID's) are being collected, please post any LTE Engineering/SignalCheck Screens so we can check our maps/sheets to see what site you are connecting to.

this is the tower I am not able to handoff to now while other surrounding towers work.its in LTE only mode to get this screenshot... I called sprint about and they said it could be in an update stage as they can't see specific tower work just regional updates... would that be the MSC software mentioned in article?

[lilg740]

this is the tower I am not able to handoff to now while other surrounding towers work.its in LTE only mode to get this screenshot... I called sprint about and they said it could be in an update stage as they can't see specific tower work just regional updates... would that be the MSC software mentioned in article?

Your guess is as good as mine on what updated Care was talking about.  And actually I forgot that the N5/G2 only show the PCI on the engineering screen. Signalcheck with show both PCI and GCI so we can ID the tower.

[koiulpoi]

Since you are a Premier sponsor -- and we greatly appreciate your support -- I often forget that you have been with us for just a few months.  So, you may not have seen my admonishments about bothering frontline Sprint employees with Network Vision questions or issues.  That does nothing.  I was of your mindset over 10 years ago, but I quickly deduced that the frontline employees do not have the knowledge and power I thought they did.  And this is one of the primary reasons that a site like S4GRU exists.

And, I'm glad that it does. I'll say, with ease, that over 90% of my wireless knowledge came from this site. I am one of those "front-line" employees, and without this site, I'd be just as bad (or worse) than many others. I definitely wouldn't know what "spark" meant, or why we should care.

 

So, once again, S4GRU, thanks for existing! 

 

Edit: While I am now on the Note 3, I had previously had issues here in West Michigan at "yellow" and "green" sites on my G2.

[transitwatch889]

Your guess is as good as mine on what updated Care was talking about.  And actually I forgot that the N5/G2 only show the PCI on the engineering screen. Signalcheck with show both PCI and GCI so we can ID the tower.

that works be possible if it would show up normally connected to 1x/3g and LTE ... having to force LTE doesn't give me that info ...

[lilg740]

that works be possible if it would show up normally connected to 1x/3g and LTE ... having to force LTE doesn't give me that info ...

Really? What does it say? Does it show you are connected to LTE?

[The_Chemist]

Here is what a social care worker has posted on the Sprint Community about the fallback issue:

 

All,

Just an update, we have implemented a  new technology, it?s called enhanced circuit switch fallback (eCFSB). The new tri-band handsets are now single radio devices, with only one radio phones will now have more antenna space and the battery lasts longer, in general these new devices are less complex. The new tri-band handsets need to detect eCFSB in order to pick up LTE, if this technology is not detected then the device will default to 3G. All of the markets that Sprint has officially launched have eCFSB implemented. There are markets where Sprint has started implementing LTE without the markets being officially launched. In these specific markets, LTE is still in the beta stage, this means that eCFSB more than likely hasn?t been implemented. This may be the cause to which many of you are not picking up LTE. To verify if your markets has been officially launched please visit > http://www.sprint.com/coverage www.sprint.com/coverage  Once an address has been entered, click on the data tab and it shows orange then your market has been officially launched. If any user in this thread is in an official LTE markets and is unable to pick up LTE, please let me know. 

Eduardo C
Sprint Social Care

[dedub]

how are folks 'forcing LTE only' mode?

[Dkoellerwx]

Here is what a social care worker has posted on the Sprint Community about the fallback issue:

 

All,

 

Just an update, we have implemented a  new technology, it?s called enhanced circuit switch fallback (eCFSB). The new tri-band handsets are now single radio devices, with only one radio phones will now have more antenna space and the battery lasts longer, in general these new devices are less complex. The new tri-band handsets need to detect eCFSB in order to pick up LTE, if this technology is not detected then the device will default to 3G. All of the markets that Sprint has officially launched have eCFSB implemented. There are markets where Sprint has started implementing LTE without the markets being officially launched. In these specific markets, LTE is still in the beta stage, this means that eCFSB more than likely hasn?t been implemented. This may be the cause to which many of you are not picking up LTE. To verify if your markets has been officially launched please visit > http://www.sprint.com/coverage www.sprint.com/coverage  Once an address has been entered, click on the data tab and it shows orange then your market has been officially launched. If any user in this thread is in an official LTE markets and is unable to pick up LTE, please let me know. 

 

Eduardo C

Sprint Social Care

 

That bold doesn't seem to be true. Charlotte and Raleigh are both launched, but people seem to not be able to pick up LTE on 4G only sites. Close though. 

[lilotimz]

how are folks 'forcing LTE only' mode?

 

*#*#4636#*#* and then there's a drop down list where you can select what mode you want radio to be in. 

[WiWavelength]

*#*#4636#*#* and then there's a drop down list where you can select what mode you want radio to be in. 

 

I will add that the hidden Phone Info screen also has a secondary menu with band selection.  If you do not know what you are doing, do not get cavalier and think that you can cleverly force 800 MHz.  You will likely be sorry.  And a factory reset will be your only remedy.

 

AJ

[The_Chemist]

That bold doesn't seem to be true. Charlotte and Raleigh are both launched, but people seem to not be able to pick up LTE on 4G only sites. Close though. 

Yeah, I know.  I think that is some misinformation.  I think he forgot about the legacy equipment. 

[The Dave]

That bold doesn't seem to be true. Charlotte and Raleigh are both launched, but people seem to not be able to pick up LTE on 4G only sites. Close though. 

 

Jacksonville is also an officially launched market, but I have had numerous issues connecting to LTE. In St Augustine, also a part of Jacksonville market, it isn't as bad.

[dedub]

ah ok that is the same one that signal check can bring up, thanks.

[transitwatch889]

Really? What does it say? Does it show you are connected to LTE?

It shows LTE in the status bar when LTE data only mode, but doesn't show the DBM reading from signal check pro which would give the GCI PCI reading typically.... my mom has a signal band lg optimus g I can install pro on her device and get the info that way. but I won't see her till later ...

[dedub]

I will add that the hidden Phone Info screen also has a secondary menu with band selection.  If you do not know what you are doing, do not get cavalier and think that you can cleverly force 800 MHz.  You will likely be sorry.  And a factory reset will be your only remedy.

 

AJ

 

All I get with the band selection menu, is 'unfortunately the process com.android.phone has stopped. report/ok. Then the connection resets and comes back up.

[S4GRU]

I do have a question about the Sprint internal memo though. Why does it list (in the acronyms portion) Ericsson as CSFB and ALU and SAM as eCSFB?

 

It is because Ericsson is installing CSFB on their legacy Nortel systems.  They have eCSFB on their NV networks is my understanding.  Samsung cannot install CSFB on legacy systems they inherited, and thus they are only installing eCSFB on their new NV network.

 

With Alcatel Lucent, they have no 4G only sites, therefore all of their LTE sites are capable of eCSFB from the get go.

 

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

 

Robert

[WiWavelength]

All I get with the band selection menu, is 'unfortunately the process com.android.phone has stopped. report/ok. Then the connection resets and comes back up.

 

So, I advised that you not try it, but you went ahead and tried it?

 

AJ

[cornelious2]

Looks like it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Jackietreehorn]

  Samsung cannot install CSFB on legacy systems they inherited, and thus they are only installing eCSFB on their new NV network.

 

Robert

 

So, does that mean that Samsung is upgrading sites they inherited to LTE, but not installing eCSFB on those legacy sites, and that they have their own new sites, or am I reading too far into this?  Perhaps it's just that Samsung prioritized LTE and is going back to do 3G later (and by going back, I mean completely replacing it seems if they can't install CSFB on those inherited systems).

[dedub]

So, I advised that you not try it, but you went ahead and tried it?

 

AJ

 

First, I had already 'tried it' long before your advisement, within the first hour I had the phone even.

 

Second, your advise while no doubt trying to be 'helpful', said nothing about accessing the menu, only about not 'getting cavalier' and 'clever', neither of which I was doing. Nor was I even able to access this 'forcing of 800' in the first place.

 

Third, I was simply relaying what I had already experienced, was different than your vague inference that forcing of 800 was an available option, in this particular context.

[S4GRU]

To help clarify the issues for our members...it is not as easy as saying it is an incumbent/non-incumbent market issue.  Nor is it an unlaunched/launched market issue.  Bottom line is that if your Triband LTE device is not able to connect to CSFB/eCSFB on the Sprint network, your device will park in 3G mode and you will not be able to use LTE without going into LTE Only mode.

 

Here is a break down of issues:

 

Incumbent Markets (markets where the legacy vendor and the Network Vision vendor are the same)
Affects most Ericsson markets and Alcatel Lucent markets

 

* Sites with 4G LTE complete and 3G work is complete (green and yellow pins on Sponsor maps)

 

Since the site has had all of the 3G NV hardware installed and operational, most of these should see the Sprint CSFB network.  There are places where they cannot, and these are problems on the network side.  More MSC's still need upgrades/software updates that will enable eCSFB to be used by your Triband device on the network.  Where this is a problem, it can likely be fixed in a few weeks and improvements should be seen rather quickly.

 

* Sites with 4G LTE complete, but 3G work is not complete (purple pins on Sponsor maps)

 

These sites have varying access to CSFB.  Most of the Ericsson legacy network has Nortel gear.  Ericsson purchased Nortel.  Most Nortel gear is capable of supporting CSFB.  Sprint and Ericsson are upgrading their MSC's to support a simple CSFB that will allow your Triband devices to work even with legacy 3G.  That is why some purple sites are working in Ericsson markets.  More and more will come online with these software upgrades.  However, in some instances where they cannot install CSFB on legacy equipment, these purple sites will not work until the site also has its 3G side activated (and they become green or yellow pins).  This mostly only affects Ericsson markets with purple pins, as Alcatel Lucent markets with LTE only complete are in non-incumbent markets.

 

 

Non-Incumbent Markets (markets where the legacy vendor and the Network Vision vendor are different)
Affects most Samsung markets, a few Alcatel Lucent markets, and a little bit of Ericsson areas

 

* Sites with 4G LTE complete and 3G work is complete (green and yellow pins on Sponsor maps)

 

Since the site has had all of the 3G NV hardware installed and operational, most of these should see the new Sprint eCSFB network.  There are places where they cannot, and these are problems on the network side.  More MSC's still need upgrades/software updates that will enable eCSFB to be used by your Triband device.  Where this is a problem, it can likely be fixed in a few weeks and improvements should be seen rather quickly.  This is the issue in the Shentel affiliate market.

 

* Sites with 4G LTE complete, but 3G work is not complete (purple pins on Sponsor maps)

 

These sites cannot access CSFB/eCSFB on the Sprint network.  Since these sites do not have legacy equipment that can be upgraded to CSFB, these sites will not be able to connect to CSFB until the site is live with Network Vision 3G upgrades (and they become green or yellow pins).  This mostly only affects Samsung markets with purple pins, as Alcatel Lucent tends to bring up the 3G side either before LTE or with LTE (except in North Carolina and Norfolk markets).

 

Here is a link to a thread about Legacy/Network Vision vendors by market:  http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2120-listing-of-legacy-vendorsnetwork-vision-vendors-by-market/

 

Robert

[S4GRU]

So, does that mean that Samsung is upgrading sites they inherited to LTE, but not installing eCSFB on those legacy sites, and that they have their own new sites, or am I reading too far into this?  Perhaps it's just that Samsung prioritized LTE and is going back to do 3G later (and by going back, I mean completely replacing it seems if they can't install CSFB on those inherited systems).

 

Samsung cannot install CSFB on their inherited systems.  The only thing they can do is trudge forward as fast as possible with Network Vision 3G upgrades and get them communicating with the eCSFB network.  You may have noticed that Samsung has a huge amount of 3G acceptances lately, and tons of In Progress sites.  They are moving faster right now on 3G conversions than I have seen any OEM ever move on a network upgrade.  It's quite impressive.

 

Robert

[thewezgrays]

This whole ordeal intrigues me but doesn't really affect me.. Two questions:

 

I have just seen three mentions of A/L having no 4G only sites -- that they bring 3G up before or during 4G upgrades... Yet there is one on the map (between Whiteville and Wilmington NC) in the Myrtle Beach market.. and a ton more in neighboring markets (such as RDU and CLT)... 

 

Second question -- since the iPhone is dual-band and I believe not SVLTE (right?) -- are the iPhones having the same problem as the G2/N5 etc TriBand phones?

 

Thanks!

 

 

With Alcatel Lucent, they have no 4G only sites, therefore all of their LTE sites are capable of eCSFB from the get go.

 

 

Robert

[S4GRU]

This whole ordeal intrigues me but doesn't really affect me.. Two questions:

 

I have just seen three mentions of A/L having no 4G only sites -- that they bring 3G up before or during 4G upgrades... Yet there is one on the map (between Whiteville and Wilmington NC) in the Myrtle Beach market.. and a ton more in neighboring markets (such as RDU and CLT)... 

 

Second question -- since the iPhone is dual-band and I believe not SVLTE (right?) -- are the iPhones having the same problem as the G2/N5 etc TriBand phones?

 

Thanks!

 

That's ooops on my part.  Being fixed now.  I know better, thanks for the reminder!

 

Robert

[shifted]

In the Samsung markets with the purple 4G pins I connect to 3G eHRPD.  Does that mean all the NV equipment is in place but they need to do additional testing or software upgrades?  Is there ever a case where you can get LTE but not have eHRPD 3G?