T-Mobile CFO makes case for U.S. consolidation, Sprint deal

[koiulpoi]

West Michigan was iPCS and they "designed" it for the absolute max of PCS considering bag phones and pull out antennas.

 

 

External, extensible antennas -- yes.  Bag phones -- no.

 

To my knowledge, Sprint never offered any bag phones.  PCS 1900 MHz devices were conceived as small, handhelds from the very beginning.  That was to be one of the advantages of PCS 1900 MHz over Cellular 850 MHz.

 

AJ

 

Is the gain/sensitivity of a pull-out antenna really that much better? Especially when "pulled out", heh.

 

Also, looking (and experiencing) the tower spacing in West Michigan, I'm fairly certain iPCS didn't actually care about the majority of their rollout, even beyond what some might call the "maximus" of CDMA 1900. A ton of places feel like they just need to split every single cell and do infill just to get in-building coverage. Or coverage, period.

[chamb]

Is the gain/sensitivity of a pull-out antenna really that much better? Especially when "pulled out", heh.

YES.  From Personal experience and from extensive technical training ----

About 10 years ago, I had a Sanyo 8300 with pullout antenna. I lived 3 miles from the nearest cell site. Service at my home was terrible. The phone would not work at all inside my home unless the antenna was extended and sitting at a special place. If it rang, Sometimes I could answer the call inside and hold it, but most of the time I went outside. If the antenna was not extended, it would not stay in sync with the network longer than a few seconds.  Receive level when not extended was -105 to-106.  With the antenna extended, my level was -103 to-105 and it worked most of the time compared to a complete failure with no extended antenna.

 

This Sanyo 8300 phone was the only phone I ever got hold of that would work for me in my home. I treated it very gently as no other available phone was going to work. The extendable antenna was the difference.

 

Now, since Shentel has totally upgraded the CDMA 1X voice here, I have about a -96 in my home on a Galaxy S3. Even better, the 800 SMR 1X gets into my home at about a -86. I no longer need the extendable antenna, but somebody else may. Yes, the pull out antenna did help and it was proved over and over. I am not sure if the newer technology would be the same.  The antenna in the new phones may be much better than they were 10 years ago.

[MrZorbatron]

I liked my Sanyo 5500.  It, and the 5300 I had before it, had great reception.  I think good reception was always a Sanyo thing.  It wasn't so hot on the 8500, but the M1 was back to being very good.

[bigsnake49]

I had the SCP 4900 and then the SCP 8300. Both RF champs with the pull out antenna. It was funny for a while to watch all the AT&T and Cingular and Nextel people have to to outside my home to make phone calls since they were all spaced for 800MHz AMPS/TDMA. Of course they stopped building their network after they colocated with Nextel and the other carriers caught up. Those were the golden years for Sprint. I would have liked to have seen what would have had happened if they had merged with Alltel/other regionals instead of Nextel. 

[jefbal99]

I had the SCP 4900 and then the SCP 8300. Both RF champs with the pull out antenna. It was funny for a while to watch all the AT&T and Cingular and Nextel people have to to outside my home to make phone calls since they were all spaced for 800MHz AMPS/TDMA. Of course they stopped building their network after they colocated with Nextel and the other carriers caught up. Those were the golden years for Sprint. I would have liked to have seen what would have had happened if they had merged with Alltel/other regionals instead of Nextel. 

 

Oh how I wish it would have been Alltel.  Alltel actually tried to buy Sprint back in the day, but got rebuffed...

[bigsnake49]

Oh how I wish it would have been Alltel.  Alltel actually tried to buy Sprint back in the day, but got rebuffed...

Three times. Alltel had almost no debt and the combined company also had a landline business. Now we know that residential landline business has sucked but business line have been doing well. It also would have given the combined company leverage when it comes to getting backhaul to Sprint sites. I'm sure that the Alltel customers would have stayed with them a lot longer than the Nextel customers. It would have given Sprit+Alltel the reputation of being a truly nationwide provider. That reputation is worth a lot of money. Now if they could have rolled up USCC as well ... On top of that they could have grabbed a lion's share of USF funds to help out with the rural buildout/upgrade.

 

Now, Sprint did get an average of 7MHz+7MHz of SMR, 5+5MHz of PCS G and quite a bit of BRS spectrum from Nextel. They had to pay approximately $5B and lost all of the market value of Nextel. Was it worth it? I would say no.

[jefbal99]

 

Now, Sprint did get an average of 7MHz+7MHz of SMR, 5+5MHz of PCS G and quite a bit of BRS spectrum from Nextel. They had to pay approximately $5B and lost all of the market value of Nextel. Was it worth it? I would say no.

I thought Nextel was $25B

[bigsnake49]

I thought Nextel was $25B

 

The value of the deal was $35B. They have to pay $5B for the rebanding of both the 800MHz SMR and the BAS spectrum.

[ericdabbs]

Direction of this thread.  Can we bring this back to Tmobile and Sprint and not about Alltel already.  

[tybo31316]

As much as people here wants it to happen. I don't think it is good for competition. Tmo and sprint combined will have more customers and spectrum to compete with the big two but the only thing that will end up happening is the new company will price their plans within a couple bucks as the big two then we the consumers lose and the only options we will have other than the new big three would be mvno carriers.

[MrZorbatron]

As much as people here wants it to happen. I don't think it is good for competition. Tmo and sprint combined will have more customers and spectrum to compete with the big two but the only thing that will end up happening is the new company will price their plans within a couple bucks as the big two then we the consumers lose and the only options we will have other than the new big three would be mvno carriers.

Or what will happen is that a "big three" group of carriers will get complacent and start offering a service of diminishing quality, with terms of a similarly diminishing quality, at increased prices.

 

This is what brought the Asian cars into this country.  The big three (GM, Ford, Chrysler) got complacent and essentially started making junk.  Mechanically the quality of major parts was ok for the most part, but the products were (with very few exceptions) unrefined, overweight, underengineered, and inefficient.  Say what you will about the Asian products now, with the gap in reliability having disappeared and in some cases reversed.  In the 1970s when they first started appearing here, they were extremely simple little cars with very few options and very little to go wrong (they didn't even offer automatic transmissions until the mid to late 80s).  This caused the Americans a lot of headaches because the people who couldn't afford a higher end European car like Mercedes or BMW, but didn't want a car as foreign and different feeling as a 70s or 80s Volkswagen, started buying them.

 

This is exactly what will happen if there is too much consolidation in the cellular services.  It will allow an upstart to come in and stir up the market, leaving the major companies scrambling and lowering their quality of services even lower to appear to compete on price.  Cimarron Wireless, anybody?

[bigsnake49]

Or what will happen is that a "big three" group of carriers will get complacent and start offering a service of diminishing quality, with terms of a similarly diminishing quality, at increased prices.

 

This is what brought the Asian cars into this country.  The big three (GM, Ford, Chrysler) got complacent and essentially started making junk.  Mechanically the quality of major parts was ok for the most part, but the products were (with very few exceptions) unrefined, overweight, underengineered, and inefficient.  Say what you will about the Asian products now, with the gap in reliability having disappeared and in some cases reversed.  In the 1970s when they first started appearing here, they were extremely simple little cars with very few options and very little to go wrong (they didn't even offer automatic transmissions until the mid to late 80s).  This caused the Americans a lot of headaches because the people who couldn't afford a higher end European car like Mercedes or BMW, but didn't want a car as foreign and different feeling as a 70s or 80s Volkswagen, started buying them.

 

This is exactly what will happen if there is too much consolidation in the cellular services.  It will allow an upstart to come in and stir up the market, leaving the major companies scrambling and lowering their quality of services even lower to appear to compete on price.  Cimarron Wireless, anybody?

Actually, it used to be GM and then the two sisters of the poor. Both Ford and Chrysler were weak at that time. Nothing like three competitors of approximately the same size. My recommendation would be different if the 4 wirless carriers were approximately the same size. But they are not. The big two are humongous, sucking up the contract, high patying customers, leaving the other two with the crumbs.

[tybo31316]

Well Sprint and T-Mobile both have the opportunity to take customers away from the big two. The pricing is there Sprint and T-Mobile both needs to expanding their coverage and building penetration. Also they could boost their advertising budget and run more commercials and ads to grasp the attention of potential customers. I see countless commercials from T and VZ boasting about their coverage and network speeds. Some customers automatically assume that because they see the ads on TV all day long that the commercials must be truthful.

[Bob Newhart]

Sprint-TMobile would get more customers, but their coverage would still be terrible when compared with Verizon and AT&T.

 

The only way for either of them to grow is expand coverage, and neither seems to be interesting in doing that.

They are more bothered in converting existing 1G to 2G to 3G to 4G to ?G, where VZW/AT&T are expanding coverage all the time either by adding towers or buying small companies.

 

I do hope this changes.

[ericdabbs]

Sprint-TMobile would get more customers, but their coverage would still be terrible when compared with Verizon and AT&T.

 

The only way for either of them to grow is expand coverage, and neither seems to be interesting in doing that.

They are more bothered in converting existing 1G to 2G to 3G to 4G to ?G, where VZW/AT&T are expanding coverage all the time either by adding towers or buying small companies.

 

I do hope this changes.

 

To be honest Sprint and Tmobile can't do anything to touch Verizon or ATT until they improve their LTE coverage.  When Sprint and Tmobile finally cover all the major markets and blanket it with LTE customer conversions will go up.  Even though Sprint or Tmobile will not have the same LTE coverage as Verizon or ATT, the fact is that the customer numbers play in favor of those carriers that can attract the most customers in the major markets.  Sure the rural areas will always go to Verizon or ATT since they have the low band spectrum to reach out there but those are small potatoes.

 

I don't expect Sprint or Tmobile to make any dent against the big 2 for at least another 1-2 years.

[Fraydog]

What would Sprint and T-Mobile bring to the table together led by SoftBank? Financial resources and spectrum they don't have apart from each other.

 

By the time this can be a real thing anyway, VoLTE will be mature enough to go with that as the main voice standard.

[IamMrFamous07]

What would Sprint and T-Mobile bring to the table together led by SoftBank? Financial resources and spectrum they don't have apart from each other.

 

By the time this can be a real thing anyway, VoLTE will be mature enough to go with that as the main voice standard.

I agree 100% I don't see a benefit of them merging right now. Maybe in 10 years

[IamMrFamous07]

To be honest Sprint and Tmobile can't do anything to touch Verizon or ATT until they improve their LTE coverage. When Sprint and Tmobile finally cover all the major markets and blanket it with LTE customer conversions will go up. Even though Sprint or Tmobile will not have the same LTE coverage as Verizon or ATT, the fact is that the customer numbers play in favor of those carriers that can attract the most customers in the major markets. Sure the rural areas will always go to Verizon or ATT since they have the low band spectrum to reach out there but those are small potatoes.

 

I don't expect Sprint or Tmobile to make any dent against the big 2 for at least another 1-2 years.

I see the dent more like 3-5 years. At least by that time LTE should be nationwide

[IamMrFamous07]

I really want sprint to acquire smaller companies such as Ntelos, Us cellular, and other regional companies to expand their coverage

[Nickel]

I really want sprint to acquire smaller companies such as Ntelos, Us cellular, and other regional companies to expand their coverage

I don't think Ntelos is going to happen since they just agreed to a deal, but I suppose anything is possible.

[MrZorbatron]

I really want sprint to acquire smaller companies such as Ntelos, Us cellular, and other regional companies to expand their coverage

Yeah as long as they buy only CDMA carriers!

[Fraydog]

Yeah as long as they buy only CDMA carriers!

Regardless they are going to have to install NV whether they buy CDMA or GSM carriers. I wouldn't want to integrate the old legacy systems of regional carriers into the neat package of what has been done with NV.

 

I'll just say Sprint buying Viaero or Nex-Tech would be a steal right now for starters. Like buying USCC (which I'm hearing USCC could happen, if it does YAY!) it keeps spectrum out of the hands of Verizon and AT&T.

[Nickel]

Regardless they are going to have to install NV whether they buy CDMA or GSM carriers. I wouldn't want to integrate the old legacy systems of regional carriers into the neat package of what has been done with NV.

 

I'll just say Sprint buying Viaero or Nex-Tech would be a steal right now for starters. Like buying USCC (which I'm hearing USCC could happen, if it does YAY!) it keeps spectrum out of the hands of Verizon and AT&T.

Do you have some inside information or is this just based on that they aren't doing that well?

[Fraydog]

Do you have some inside information or is this just based on that they aren't doing that well?

Based on not doing well, and guessing. Maybe I should have worded better.

[Nickel]

Based on not doing well, and guessing. Maybe I should have worded better.

I figured, I just wanted clarification.