NID Boundary changes in Orange County, CA!!

[larryt510]

As some of you like AJ know I have been complaining for years about the terrible way that the Irvine 1 and 2 network switch boundary (also known as Orange County NID 2 and NID 3) was set up.  These boundaries are supposed to be set up in a way that has the least amount of impact on the customers.  This was not the case here in my area as they basically split it up right along a busy freeway and highly populated residential and shopping areas.  Now had they moved NID 2 just one more cell site to the West it would have been much better as there would have been a separation by a hill to help minimize the impact.

 

So my hope all along was that they would do just that.  I'm very happy to report that they even did better than that.  They also moved all the cell sites that I can possibly connect to to the same NID.  So they scaled back the territory of NID 2 and increased the size of NID 3 which was a great idea.  I haven't completely driven around and tested a wider area yet to see all of the exact changes but I can say for sure that the six closest cell sites to me are all now on NID 3 whereas before there were two on NID 3 and four others on NID 2 which created an epidemic of missed incoming calls.  Now that it's been changed to a much better layout I would expect that the days of missed incoming calls are over.     I can post a more detailed analysis and give specific cell site locations and ID #'s in the sponsor forum if anyone's interested.

[larryt510]

NID 2 (Irvine switch 1) seems to have vanished.  I drove a few miles further today and was still on NID 3 in what was formerly solid NID 2 territory.  Interesting.  More testing later when I get the time.

[MacinJosh]

NID 2 (Irvine switch 1) seems to have vanished. I drove a few miles further today and was still on NID 3 in what was formerly solid NID 2 territory. Interesting. More testing later when I get the time.

Keep us updated. It'll be interesting to see how far this goes.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

[WiWavelength]

NID 2 (Irvine switch 1) seems to have vanished.  I drove a few miles further today and was still on NID 3 in what was formerly solid NID 2 territory.  Interesting.  More testing later when I get the time.

 

If patterns elsewhere hold true, at least one NID will probably be absorbed into another.  And expect potentially a brand new NID number.  That said, it is doubtful that the entire Los Angeles MTA can be put on a single NID.  So, NID boundaries will still exist somewhere within SID 4145.

 

AJ

[larryt510]

If patterns elsewhere hold true, at least one NID will probably be absorbed into another. 

AJ

 

Good to hear as having fewer NID's will make for a better and more reliable network.  Orange County has always had just the two NID's but I have yet to pick up the other one.  A friend at Sprint told me that we still have both but I haven't had a chance to travel out to the Southern and Northern parts of OC yet to see exactly what they have done and where the new borders are. I'm also wondering what might have occured in Los Angeles and the Inland Empire with those NID's.

[newyork4me]

Forgive the dumb question, but is there a reason that this problem doesn't seem to afflict Verizon subscribers? Have they done something different with their network, or does the red flavor-aid mask any of these issues?

[larryt510]

Forgive the dumb question, but is there a reason that this problem doesn't seem to afflict Verizon subscribers? Have they done something different with their network, or does the red flavor-aid mask any of these issues?

 

As of a couple of years ago Verizon actually had the same NID boundary here in my area as Sprint did.  Meaning their two neighborring cell sites on different NID's were in the exact same location as Sprint's.  Just a coincidence?  No idea. 

 

The great majority of both Verizon and Sprint users do not live or work near these NID boundaries and would not be affected.

[larryt510]

Update.  So after giving this a fair amount of time I have come to the conclusion that the NID consolidation here DID NOT fix the missed incoming calls problem.  Still have the exact same issues as I always had before.  So I'm thinking that even though the cell sites around here are now on the same NID, there still must be two separate sub switches in that NID that still produce the same symptoms as being on the NID boundary did before.  Very disappointing.  AJ, any idea on this?

[dnwk]

Could someone explain to me, what happen if you stay at the boundary of NID?

[dnwk]

Update.  So after giving this a fair amount of time I have come to the conclusion that the NID consolidation here DID NOT fix the missed incoming calls problem.  Still have the exact same issues as I always had before.  So I'm thinking that even though the cell sites around here are now on the same NID, there still must be two separate sub switches in that NID that still produce the same symptoms as being on the NID boundary did before.  Very disappointing.  AJ, any idea on this?

 

Isn't a missing incoming call an NV update issue? I have that for a while as Customer service tell me because they are doing the upgrade. And it gone when NV update complete in the area.

[larryt510]

Isn't a missing incoming call an NV update issue?

 

No, the problem I'm talking about is not related to NV upgrades. 

[WiWavelength]

Could someone explain to me, what happen if you stay at the boundary of NID?

 

You would have to ask the guards.  But their answers could vary.  Are you on the north side of the NID boundary or on the south side?

 

 

AJ

[airb330]

No, the problem I'm talking about is not related to NV upgrades. 

Seems to be a CDMA issue?

 

I remember you having this problem 10 years ago..and if it isn't the NID, I wonder what it is then. Capacity? Verizon is really becoming dreadful here with incoming call reliability. Sprint, while better than Verizon in my area, also would do this from time to time. I really haven't experienced it yet once with AT&T. AT&T is obviously using a cdma platform now (WCDMA) for voice now too, but I still haven't had the issue with them.

[larryt510]

Seems to be a CDMA issue?

 

I remember you having this problem 10 years ago..and if it isn't the NID, I wonder what it is then. Capacity?

Yeah it's been happening since 1997 when I first signed up.  At first I didn't know what the cause was but someone later tipped me off to the NID boundary.  Congestion in the paging channel (capacity) can cause this too but I do not believe that is the reason here. 

[dnwk]

So, it is a problem related to the basic design of CDMA. If you live near the boundary of NID, your phone would probably bounce on / off different towers in different NID and causing some issue with incoming calls. Why would a phone not keep connecting to one tower if you are not moving?

[WiWavelength]

Why would a phone not keep connecting to one tower if you are not moving?

 

Differential loading among the sectors over time causes changes in Ec/Io.

 

AJ

[larryt510]

So, it is a problem related to the basic design of CDMA. If you live near the boundary of NID, your phone would probably bounce on / off different towers in different NID and causing some issue with incoming calls.

 

Exactly right.  Bouncing on different cell sites and PN offsets on the same NID and you will probably be fine.  But when you're right on the border between two or more cell sites on different Network ID's it's a whole different story.

 

I thought this problem here would be fixed when they made new boundaries and consolidated NID's but I was wrong.  The phones still behave the same way they always have with the missed incoming calls.  So not sure what's going on unless the two separate switches are still there under a single NID.

[dnwk]

And could someone explain why when phone connecting to different tower with different NID will causing incoming call issue?  GSM never has a similar issue

Edited October 2, 2013 by dnwk

[WiWavelength]

And could someone explain why when phone connecting to different tower with different NID will causing incoming call issue?  GSM never has a similar issue

 

No, that is incorrect.  Whether they are called NIDs, LACs, "paging zones," etc., every cellular wireless technology geographically segments networks in some way.  There is simply not enough MSC capacity nor paging channel capacity to have an entire network be a single "zone."

 

AJ

[dnwk]

I am not saying we want single zone. I was trying to figure out why connecting to different zone will cause problems.

 

No, that is incorrect.  Whether they are called NIDs, LACs, "paging zones," etc., every cellular wireless technology geographically segments networks in some way.  There is simply not enough MSC capacity nor paging channel capacity to have an entire network be a single "zone."

 

AJ

[dnwk]

Maybe Robert should run an article detail some basic on CDMA. How the paging works and NID, SID, LAC etc

[larryt510]

Well here it is 10 months later and I have some good news to report.  It appears that the NID consolidation here in Orange County has finally eliminated the failed incoming call problem.  When they first consolidated the NID's late last year the incoming call problem seemed to have actually gotten worse right on the border where the old NID's were set up even though all of the cell sites in this area were now showing on the same NID.  I kept calling in and filing tickets on it but it never seemed to do any good.   The issue remained horrible up until early last month.  But it appears that the problem has finally been solved now.  But I'm going to keep testing it out for another couple of weeks to make sure and report back again.

[ericdabbs]

Well here it is 10 months later and I have some good news to report. It appears that the NID consolidation here in Orange County has finally eliminated the failed incoming call problem. When they first consolidated the NID's late last year the incoming call problem seemed to have actually gotten worse right on the border where the old NID's were set up even though all of the cell sites in this area were now showing on the same NID. I kept calling in and filing tickets on it but it never seemed to do any good. The issue remained horrible up until early last month. But it appears that the problem has finally been solved now. But I'm going to keep testing it out for another couple of weeks to make sure and report back again.

Now if only the 800 mhz rebanding can hurry up in Orange County so that CDMA and LTE 800 can be a reality.

[WiWavelength]

We need to run some data on NIDs versus TACs.  But my supposition is that someone located on a NID boundary -- there are relatively few in metro areas any longer, thankfully -- would be wise to upgrade to a tri band e/CSFB handset.  Since the CDMA1X paging channel gets tunneled through LTE, the TAC supersedes that of the NID.

 

AJ

[larryt510]

We need to run some data on NIDs versus TACs.  But my supposition is that someone located on a NID boundary -- there are relatively few in metro areas any longer, thankfully -- would be wise to upgrade to a tri band e/CSFB handset.  Since the CDMA1X paging channel gets tunneled through LTE, the TAC supersedes that of the NID.

 

AJ

 

I'm all set to get a new handset and will probably do so once the LG G3 becomes available on 7/18 so I should be good to go from this point on. 

 

Last night's testing once again confirmed that they have finally fixed the NID boundary blocked call issue here in Orange County (nearly 9 months after they consolidated the two NID's).

 

So hopefully the days of missed incoming calls are now behind me.