The Iphone 5s & Iphone 5c [not Tri-Band LTE] (was "Next iPhone to be announced on September 10")

[rf40928]

Will Tim Cook go on about how inferior bigger displays are and how even a grade school kid can use the 4" display one handed?

 

I doubt it since there is a lot of talk Apple with likely offer a slightly larger display in the iPhone 6, along side a larger iPhone Phablet.  Lets make no mistake though.  There are enough people out there buying Droid mini's and Galaxy mini's to prove not everyone likes lugging around a larger device all day.  That's why a lot of people use tablets at home.  This is not unlike seeing a large man in a small car or a small woman in a huge truck.  It's preference.

 

For some reason a lot of Android fans bring up 2 things the most: screen size and Camera Megapixels.  I think the Camera MP thing is the most hyped/ marketed thing in the industry - that Android fans especially fall for - and for most people is not even useful. 

 

1080p (1920×1080 ) for instance is only 2.1 Mega Pixels. 

 

First of all, Any of you iPhone owners or Android users hear ( or say ) : I've got 12MP and you've only got 8 MP ! .... ?

12MP is actually a small increase over 8MP when it comes to resolution.  As MP's increases more - resolution by percentage increases less: So they are NOT Linear !   In order to double the resolution of a 8 MP camera you'd have to go to about a 33 MP ! 

 

This explains why Nokia went straight to 41 MP in their new Windows phone ( although it actually does 4:3 images at up to 38MP and 16:9 images at up to 34MP )  Apple could've easily raised the MP's to 12 or 13  ( and those like Samsung ) for marketing purposes, but why ? Instead those chose to focus on other tangible areas.  I have a 3MP Sony Camera that takes much better pictures then the Camera that was in my former 5MP iPhone 4s ..  The reason most 2.1 MP camera's sucked in smartphones was (back then) they had low quality lenses and even worse sensors.  When it comes to real use ( pics that won't be blown up to poster size for a wall ) THE HTC 4MP camera takes pictures much better then many smartphones with 8MP/10MP camera's IMHO..

 

 

Secondly,  When you view a 8MP pic in its entirety on a 1080p display your picture is only showing at 1/3 of the resolution !  In other words, you're not able to appreciate the full quality of an 8MP picture.  This is what makes it funny when people think they see the difference between a 8MP, 10MP, and 12 MP camera picture on a 32 inch 720p screen - without realizing all those pictures are severely downgraded when viewed on a 720P or 1080p display !   Yes, they see real improvement, but those improvements are more about sensor size increases, sensory quality improvements, and changes the lens size itself. These "other" improvements make pictures sharper and decrease noise and increase color accuracy... Although the 5S remained at 8MP - you see real improvements of the iPhone 5s over the iPhone5... instead the 'masses' believe it's the MP's because that's how the industry markets the selling of cameras... much like automotive companies market HP in cars - while its actually Torque that wins the race.  To make matters worse, most people photo's are automatically downgraded even more -without their knowledge- when they upload pics to places like facebook.  Large files would slow down the network too much and also increase the capacity of server space needed.

 

Third....There is not a HD SCREEN on the market that can even view the full quality of a 12MP picture.  In order barely view the quality of a 8MP picture ( which is 3264x2448 ) - in its entirety (every single pixel) - you'll need to go out and buy a ULTRA HD  Widescreen TV for about $7,000 ( average ) which displays at a mind blowing 3840 x 2160 (that's 300% more pixels then your 1080p screen has ) ..  Then we'd have debate over if you're still seeing the full quality because of visual acuity. ( What your eyes can perceive at certain distances ).  For instance the typical 1080p widescreen TV only has about 150-200ppi :  much much lower then a smartphone, but at 5 to 10 feet away this is impossible to notice.  Get 12 inches away from that same screen ( as you do your smartphone ) and you'll see your tv screens ppi is indeed less then your smartphones.  Right now most of the argument is from people saying how great 12MP camera's are when they probably have no clue they are losing all the resolution anyways, unless they are actually making very large prints from the photo lab.

 

Apple could've easily played the MP game, but instead chose to work in other areas of picture quality.  Increasing MP's for MOST people is pointless right now.  Increasing MP's increases picture noise and significantly lowers quality of low light pictures.

 

The full 5s review  at  www.anandtech.com  shows although they stayed with 8MP's that picture noise is significantly reduced when using the 5s camera over the iPhone 5 camera - as is low light picture quality.  ISO and picture noise is a problem that increases as MP's goes up. 

 

 

Who needs more MP's then ?  There are many legit  reasons if you are a true photophile  and you have you very large pictures printed - or - posters - for instance .. then megapixels matter..  Nokia's 41MP camera would  be useful.. but  for obvious reasons - all these people ( Pro's ) use dedicated camera's that have amny other settings.  Also, I highly doubt anyone will hire you to take photos for their wedding ( no matter how many MegaPixels you have ) if your main photographic tool is a Nokia smartphone !!  

[MacPCS]

The size of the sensor is far more important than the amount of pixels you can cram onto one.  Tiny little pixels just have a harder time gathering light anyway, which makes low-light a far more tricky proposition.  Apple has always had some of the best image processing and pretty decent lenses.  The problem with camera phones at this point isn't resolution, it's accuracy, dynamic range, low-light performance and speed.  None of these are helped by more megapixels and all of them are actually made a bit worse unless you increase the size of the sensor as well.  

 

See the HTC One for another good example of image quality > megapixels.  

[rf40928]

The size of the sensor is far more important than the amount of pixels you can cram onto one.  Tiny little pixels just have a harder time gathering light anyway, which makes low-light a far more tricky proposition.  Apple has always had some of the best image processing and pretty decent lenses.  The problem with camera phones at this point isn't resolution, it's accuracy, dynamic range, low-light performance and speed.  None of these are helped by more megapixels and all of them are actually made a bit worse unless you increase the size of the sensor as well.  

 

See the HTC One for another good example of image quality > megapixels.  

 

Yeah, I mentioned the 4MP Camera in the HTC One in my above post.. 

[MacPCS]

Yeah, I mentioned the 4MP Camera in the HTC One in my above post..

I know, there aren't really any other great examples of this though lol

[The Dave]

Perhaps I was doing something wrong, but when I was at a Sprint store and took test pictures both with the S4 and One, the Samsung looked more vibrant and lifelike. I felt the ultrapixel camera was a major letdown in the One.

[rf40928]

Perhaps I was doing something wrong, but when I was at a Sprint store and took test pictures both with the S4 and One, the Samsung looked more vibrant and lifelike. I felt the ultrapixel camera was a major letdown in the One.

 

The S4 has some improvements over the S3 besides MP's.. but there are some key differences. THE HTC will beat the S4 in medium to low light pics without flash.. I really think it depends on what you're shooting and the lighting.  The S4 has very good color accuracy in good lighting, but it suffers as many higher MP camera's do in low light.   Ive seen many pics ( see below ) where the HTC showed better clarity and color then the S4, but when taking a picture of lots of bright colors the S4 seemed to be 'slightly' better, but it wasn't a huge difference.  The whole reason for the conversation is because there is so much marketing behind MP's.  The fact that HTC's camera can even be 'close' (with only 4MP's ) clearly shows there are too many other areas in digital photography that improvement such as sensor quality.  I was surprised by the noticeable improvements Apple made with the iP5s over the iP5 - all while keeping MP's the same.  Besides the changes in sensor size and aperture .. the iPhone 5s can focus in multiple faces more easily and even recognizes facial expressions when shooting in burst mode.

 

This review is older ( it compares the S4, iPhone 5, and HTC One ) ... the S4 came out LAST place in a few, but there are a  pics where you can clearly see the HTC wins, but the point is -- even in pics where HTC ONE lost - there wasn't a mind boggling difference in quality - IMHO.  I thought all 3 were close !!  The reviewer picked the S4 and iPhone 5 ultimately, but damn it was close

 

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57581522-85/samsung-galaxy-s4-shootout-versus-htc-one-iphone-5/

[SWMich4G]

I think I am in the wrong iphone thread.

[digiblur]

Which one takes better pictures of food?

[rf40928]

Which one takes better pictures of food?

haha !

[The Dave]

I have noticed that the iPhone and iPad do take really nice pictures. 

[chgoguy80]

I doubt it since there is a lot of talk Apple with likely offer a slightly larger display in the iPhone 6, along side a larger iPhone Phablet.  Lets make no mistake though.  There are enough people out there buying Droid mini's and Galaxy mini's to prove not everyone likes lugging around a larger device all day.  That's why a lot of people use tablets at home.  This is not unlike seeing a large man in a small car or a small woman in a huge truck.  It's preference.

 

For some reason a lot of Android fans bring up 2 things the most: screen size and Camera Megapixels.  I think the Camera MP thing is the most hyped/ marketed thing in the industry - that Android fans especially fall for - and for most people is not even useful. 

 

1080p (1920×1080 ) for instance is only 2.1 Mega Pixels. 

 

First of all, Any of you iPhone owners or Android users hear ( or say ) : I've got 12MP and you've only got 8 MP ! .... ?

12MP is actually a small increase over 8MP when it comes to resolution.  As MP's increases more - resolution by percentage increases less: So they are NOT Linear !   In order to double the resolution of a 8 MP camera you'd have to go to about a 33 MP ! 

 

This explains why Nokia went straight to 41 MP in their new Windows phone ( although it actually does 4:3 images at up to 38MP and 16:9 images at up to 34MP )  Apple could've easily raised the MP's to 12 or 13  ( and those like Samsung ) for marketing purposes, but why ? Instead those chose to focus on other tangible areas.  I have a 3MP Sony Camera that takes much better pictures then the Camera that was in my former 5MP iPhone 4s ..  The reason most 2.1 MP camera's sucked in smartphones was (back then) they had low quality lenses and even worse sensors.  When it comes to real use ( pics that won't be blown up to poster size for a wall ) THE HTC 4MP camera takes pictures much better then many smartphones with 8MP/10MP camera's IMHO..

 

 

Secondly,  When you view a 8MP pic in its entirety on a 1080p display your picture is only showing at 1/3 of the resolution !  In other words, you're not able to appreciate the full quality of an 8MP picture.  This is what makes it funny when people think they see the difference between a 8MP, 10MP, and 12 MP camera picture on a 32 inch 720p screen - without realizing all those pictures are severely downgraded when viewed on a 720P or 1080p display !   Yes, they see real improvement, but those improvements are more about sensor size increases, sensory quality improvements, and changes the lens size itself. These "other" improvements make pictures sharper and decrease noise and increase color accuracy... Although the 5S remained at 8MP - you see real improvements of the iPhone 5s over the iPhone5... instead the 'masses' believe it's the MP's because that's how the industry markets the selling of cameras... much like automotive companies market HP in cars - while its actually Torque that wins the race.  To make matters worse, most people photo's are automatically downgraded even more -without their knowledge- when they upload pics to places like facebook.  Large files would slow down the network too much and also increase the capacity of server space needed.

 

Third....There is not a HD SCREEN on the market that can even view the full quality of a 12MP picture.  In order barely view the quality of a 8MP picture ( which is 3264x2448 ) - in its entirety (every single pixel) - you'll need to go out and buy a ULTRA HD  Widescreen TV for about $7,000 ( average ) which displays at a mind blowing 3840 x 2160 (that's 300% more pixels then your 1080p screen has ) ..  Then we'd have debate over if you're still seeing the full quality because of visual acuity. ( What your eyes can perceive at certain distances ).  For instance the typical 1080p widescreen TV only has about 150-200ppi :  much much lower then a smartphone, but at 5 to 10 feet away this is impossible to notice.  Get 12 inches away from that same screen ( as you do your smartphone ) and you'll see your tv screens ppi is indeed less then your smartphones.  Right now most of the argument is from people saying how great 12MP camera's are when they probably have no clue they are losing all the resolution anyways, unless they are actually making very large prints from the photo lab.

 

Apple could've easily played the MP game, but instead chose to work in other areas of picture quality.  Increasing MP's for MOST people is pointless right now.  Increasing MP's increases picture noise and significantly lowers quality of low light pictures.

 

 

If you are not an iPerson/iPodperson/iTunes/iPhone/iPad person, would you or anyone choose an iPhone as your 1st smartphone now?????

 

My brothers and wives (ok women and my gay friends seem to LOVE iPhones its a "status" part of their "appearance/expected" thing)? Me and my folks last year in July (yes really late) made the jump to smartphones (got stuck paying $150 each and hours getting account services to do the right thing and give credits and extras), (ok my Mom might have found the simplistic features of the iPhone better but on a tiny 3.5-4" screen never) but even my 70 year old Dad researched enough to be sure iPhone had no advantage even after family said iphone is so simple. To this day he is freaking glad he did not get stuck with Android  though we both would have preferred a bigger screen like the Note 2 in hindsight. The S3 isn't really tiny just seems small.

 

I know Apple just updated to a less dated interface in ios 7 (I asked someone the other week, oh you actually finally got an android phone? but was ios 7. We still have S3's but the more I look at my sister in laws iphone 5 its like who would want that? Just asking yes, bigger screen, better technology are factors. Wish the S3 had a bigger screen, was going to jump Note 3 for sure but the lack of triband is a big fail .

[rf40928]

If you are not an iPerson/iPodperson/iTunes/iPhone/iPad person, would you or anyone choose an iPhone as your 1st smartphone now?????

 

My brothers and wives (ok women and my gay friends seem to LOVE iPhones its a "status" part of their "appearance/expected" thing)? Me and my folks last year in July (yes really late) made the jump to smartphones (got stuck paying $150 each and hours getting account services to do the right thing and give credits and extras), (ok my Mom might have found the simplistic features of the iPhone better but on a tiny 3.5-4" screen never) but even my 70 year old Dad researched enough to be sure iPhone had no advantage even after family said iphone is so simple. To this day he is freaking glad he did not get stuck with Android  though we both would have preferred a bigger screen like the Note 2 in hindsight. The S3 isn't really tiny just seems small.

 

I know Apple just updated to a less dated interface in ios 7 (I asked someone the other week, oh you actually finally got an android phone? but was ios 7. We still have S3's but the more I look at my sister in laws iphone 5 its like who would want that? Just asking yes, bigger screen, better technology are factors. Wish the S3 had a bigger screen, was going to jump Note 3 for sure but the lack of triband is a big fail .

 

I'm not prejudice in using other phones.  Family members have other brands, but I like the iPhone.  I use mine to access my router which i have setup as a server.  Music and movies are on the server so I don't have to store much on the phone. I can access it over my home network or while on wi-fi somewhere else.  I can access it over LTE as well, but it's not widespread in my city yet.  I have the phone setup to also access Windows remotely.  Besides that I text and run a few silly apps.  When you consider what most of the world uses a smartphone for ( communication, facebook, and maybe sometimes a calculator and a few pictures ) It really doesn't matter if you're using a 5 year old blackberry.

[ericdabbs]

Is the iPhone 5S bending a thing you guys have experienced or noticed?  Since the iPhone 5S chassis is based on the iPhone 5, it appears the issue has been happening since last year?  Can we say bendable screens like Samsung...haha.

 

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/10/07/iphone-5s-bends-just-like-the-iphone-5-early-adopters-report/

[rf40928]

Is the iPhone 5S bending a thing you guys have experienced or noticed?  Since the iPhone 5S chassis is based on the iPhone 5, it appears the issue has been happening since last year?  Can we say bendable screens like Samsung...haha.

 

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/10/07/iphone-5s-bends-just-like-the-iphone-5-early-adopters-report/

 

I would have to see this to beleive it - I don't beleive it at all under "normal use".

 

Id say with it being metal, ( out case is aluminum ) someone very heavy is sitting on their phone.. in which case the screen would crack since its bolted on too many places to the frame..

[Vince]

All of these "tech" websites are so biased towards android it's sick. They love any chance to point out a flaw in apple products. Yeah, sit on your f***ing metal phone in your ass pocket. Sure, it might bend. What did they expect?

[ericdabbs]

All of these "tech" websites are so biased towards android it's sick. They love any chance to point out a flaw in apple products. Yeah, sit on your f***ing metal phone in your ass pocket. Sure, it might bend. What did they expect?

 

I don't know personally of anyone that has had their iPhone 5 or 5S get bent like it has been described but I wouldn't say the story is made up though. Phones should not bend period!!! To your point about tech blogs being biased towards Android...I respectfully disagree.  Most tech websites if anything seem to be biased towards Apple like they never do anything wrong.

 

Here are a few examples of blatant biased.  When the HTC One and LG G2 came out, they both got ripped for not having removable batteries or lack of SD card slots as a negative as if the phone is not worth buying but the iPhone does not have removable batteries or SD card slot and is anointed as the jebus phone.  Also when iPhone finally came out with the plastic back feel with the iPhone 5C tech blog but yet tech blogs give it a pass as if its not a big deal but when Samsung or LG does it, it gets ripped to shreds.  Talk about double standard.

[IsaiahL]

I don't know personally of anyone that has had their iPhone 5 or 5S get bent like it has been described but I wouldn't say the story is made up though. Phones should not bend period!!!.

My first original iPhone 5 bent. It bent because of the way I would take it out of one of my cases. I honestly don't think sitting on an iPhone can bend it. But anyways, I was going to the Apple store to get a replacement when the bent iPhone got snatched . I got a new one though , i've had it for quite some time & it hasn't shown any signs of bending . The iPhone 5 bends because its aluminum where as the 4S was stainless steel. The Aluminum that makes up the iPhone is weaker, which allows for things like bending to occur.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Edited October 10, 2013 by IsaiahL

[MacPCS]

I don't know personally of anyone that has had their iPhone 5 or 5S get bent like it has been described but I wouldn't say the story is made up though. Phones should not bend period!!! To your point about tech blogs being biased towards Android...I respectfully disagree. Most tech websites if anything seem to be biased towards Apple like they never do anything wrong.

 

Here are a few examples of blatant biased. When the HTC One and LG G2 came out, they both got ripped for not having removable batteries or lack of SD card slots as a negative as if the phone is not worth buying but the iPhone does not have removable batteries or SD card slot and is anointed as the jebus phone. Also when iPhone finally came out with the plastic back feel with the iPhone 5C tech blog but yet tech blogs give it a pass as if its not a big deal but when Samsung or LG does it, it gets ripped to shreds. Talk about double standard.

Tech blogs also pan the iPhone for no removable battery.

 

The plastic argument though is crap. The 5C is a very high quality feeling device, whereas the GS3/4 feel like they're made out of the same shit crappy epson printers are made of. That's why Apple doesn't get criticism about the plastic. It's higher quality and on a steel frame.

[ericdabbs]

Tech blogs also pan the iPhone for no removable battery.

 

The plastic argument though is crap. The 5C is a very high quality feeling device, whereas the GS3/4 feel like they're made out of the same shit crappy epson printers are made of. That's why Apple doesn't get criticism about the plastic. It's higher quality and on a steel frame.

 

Tomato...tomatto.  Plastic is plastic.  "Higher quality" plastic does not equate to a nicer metallic frame like a HTC One or even the iPhone 5S.  Even if Samsung or LG used the same type of plastic like the iPhone 5C it will get ripped regardless.

 

I never hear of the iPhone being a non-removable battery being a downside to the iPhone neither as a SD card.  All tech blogs ever mention about the battery is that it is non-removable and that it doesn't have a SD card but that is just only stating the specs of the phone.

[MacPCS]

Tomato...tomatto. Plastic is plastic. "Higher quality" plastic does not equate to a nicer metallic frame like a HTC One or even the iPhone 5S. Even if Samsung or LG used the same type of plastic like the iPhone 5C it will get ripped regardless.

 

I never hear of the iPhone being a non-removable battery being a downside to the iPhone neither as a SD card. All tech blogs ever mention about the battery is that it is non-removable and that it doesn't have a SD card but that is just only stating the specs of the phone.

except it does specifically matter what the quality of the materials are when you ask why nobody complains that it's plastic. It feels very good unlike other crappier feeling cheap plastic devices. That's why. It's not tomato v. tomato here. It's a difference that's very tangible and significant. Yes, metal feels better.... That's the whole point. Certain materials feel better. The 5C uses very high quality materials for the shell, they're just cheaper than the 5S or 5 to manufacture.

[nobius]

I never hear of the iPhone being a non-removable battery being a downside to the iPhone neither as a SD card.  All tech blogs ever mention about the battery is that it is non-removable and that it doesn't have a SD card but that is just only stating the specs of the phone.

 

It's not an issue for me, but I have several friends that specifically won't get an iPhone because of the non-removable battery.  

[Vince]

I never understood the allure of a removable battery and why it's constantly causing arguments amongst the android faithful. I already hate carrying stuff around with me all day. I wouldn't want a battery in my pocket "just in case." It's so much easier to just have a car charger in my vehicles, and wall chargers in a few spots of my house. I've never had a problem.

[SWMich4G]

I never understood the allure of a removable battery and why it's constantly causing arguments amongst the android faithful. I already hate carrying stuff around with me all day. I wouldn't want a battery in my pocket "just in case." It's so much easier to just have a car charger in my vehicles, and wall chargers in a few spots of my house. I've never had a problem.

You're not everyone.  Some people don't like spending $100 to replace their battery when it doesn't retain as much charge anymore.  Some people like to have the ability to get a fully charged battery in a matter of seconds when they don't have access to an outlet for a long period of time.  And yes, you can get one of those portable external batteries for an iphone, but it takes up a lot more space to bring with you and makes your phone hugemongous when attached. Every Apple product I've had has outlasted its battery since I take care of my things and keep them for a long time. 

[Vince]

You're not everyone. Some people don't like spending $100 to replace their battery when it doesn't retain as much charge anymore. Some people like to have the ability to get a fully charged battery in a matter of seconds when they don't have access to an outlet for a long period of time. And yes, you can get one of those portable external batteries for an iphone, but it takes up a lot more space to bring with you and makes your phone hugemongous when attached. Every Apple product I've had has outlasted its battery since I take care of my things and keep them for a long time.

I wasn't trying to speak on behalf of everyone. Every year, when the iPhone is released, it's the same old complaint year after year. No removable battery. And it gets annoying.

[SWMich4G]

I wasn't trying to speak on behalf of everyone. Every year, when the iPhone is released, it's the same old complaint year after year. No removable battery. And it gets annoying.

You said "I never understood the allure of a removable battery."  I told you the allure.