LTE 450 MHz - band 31

[maximus1987/lou99]

Will LTE 450 catch on in America?

https://www.google.com/search?q=lte+band+450&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

[Rukin1]

Not any time soon..That I know of anyways

[maximus1987/lou99]

I know the band is probably used up with other users but would it be worth it to clear them to have a 5x5 at 450 MHz?

[Rukin1]

Sprint is looking into buying 600MHZ.. Which would be the best for indoor coverage vs other carriers.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Sprint is looking into buying 600MHZ.. Which would be the best for indoor coverage vs other carriers.

I know that. 450 MHz would only be used for dongles and hotspots to provide Internet to the real boonies and 100% coverage.

Band 31 is only 5x5 in total.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I think 450 MHz is only gonna catch on in countries that have absolutely no infrastructure outside of the cities.

 

And where 0 < 25 Mbps down.

 

Not every country has mandated phone service to every residence.

Edited August 7, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[iansltx]

5x5 is enough for a single carrier to serve up decent speeds...or three carriers to serve up rather lackluster speeds. In either case you have a less-than-ideal situation. On the one hand, a monopoly that you have to clear spectrum for. On the other, three providers with low speeds that you have to clear spectrum for.

 

With ViaSat exede hitting a fair portion of the US with 12/3 speeds, and with fixed antennas (that people in the US can afford) in 700MHz and eventually 600MHz (plus 900MHz fixed wireless in some areas), 450MHz doesn't really make sense in the US. You'd have to move heaven and earth to carve out 10MHz total, less than half of what is available in the ISM band...or LTE band 13 for that matter.

[maximus1987/lou99]

5x5 is enough for a single carrier to serve up decent speeds...or three carriers to serve up rather lackluster speeds. In either case you have a less-than-ideal situation. On the one hand, a monopoly that you have to clear spectrum for. On the other, three providers with low speeds that you have to clear spectrum for.

 

With ViaSat exede hitting a fair portion of the US with 12/3 speeds, and with fixed antennas (that people in the US can afford) in 700MHz and eventually 600MHz (plus 900MHz fixed wireless in some areas), 450MHz doesn't really make sense in the US. You'd have to move heaven and earth to carve out 10MHz total, less than half of what is available in the ISM band...or LTE band 13 for that matter.

So you're saying it doesn't make sense in a 1st world economy?

I guess with excede, you can say mission accomplished. After all, only streaming video will exceed the cap and VoIP, just use s phone or move to civilization.

Edited August 7, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[iansltx]

So you're saying it doesn't make sense in a 1st world economy?

 

Well, if I did you'd come right back and say that Poland's doing it so why not the US?

 

To which my response would be that Orange.pl is using CDMA, not LTE, in 450MHz, and it has had the spectrum for ages.

 

To which your response might be, what about Brazil?

 

To which my response would be, "Wait and see."

[maximus1987/lou99]

Well, if I did you'd come right back and say that Poland's doing it so why not the US?

 

To which my response would be that Orange.pl is using CDMA, not LTE, in 450MHz, and it has had the spectrum for ages.

 

To which your response might be, what about Brazil?

 

To which my response would be, "Wait and see."

I wouldn't have said Poland because I understand CDMA 450 is already used so spectrum is cleared.

 

As for brazil: when 2600 and 450 were auctioned, NO ONE bid for 450! The gov forced the 2600 winners to also build out 450.

[kg4icg]

Before anyone think about 450 mhz being used for cell phones, where are you going to move all the public safety and business radio systems to in the US? For example, the whole state of West Virginia uses the 450 and 460 mhz for a statewide P25 trunk system.

 

 

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=4076

[Conan Kudo]

Are they permitted to do that? Because the US federally licensed the 451-458 / 461-468 MHz frequencies for walkie-talkie operation (classed as Family Radio). I thought trunking systems were moved into the 900 band and the channels of 800 that aren't allocated for commercial services.

[WiWavelength]

If you have limited, cramped bandwidth, my suggestion is to go TDD.  The FDD gap between uplink and downlink -- plus potentially multiple guard bands against other services in the vicinity -- is a pain in the ass.

 

I like Qualcomm more than many do.  But I think that Qualcomm's objections against TDD may be related to fears that WiMAX would take some of the TDD business, not so much legitimate technical concerns.

 

AJ

[kg4icg]

Primary use of 450 to 512 mhz depending on where in the country you are is Public Safety. From 420 to 450 mhz is Amatuer Radio. From 380 mhz to 420 is Mil and Gov. You want to see a breakdown of what is used in the US frequency wise, go here.

 

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/page/2011/united-states-frequency-allocation-chart

[iansltx]

Are they permitted to do that? Because the US federally licensed the 451-458 / 461-468 MHz frequencies for walkie-talkie operation (classed as Family Radio). I thought trunking systems were moved into the 900 band and the channels of 800 that aren't allocated for commercial services.

 

Don't forget GMRS. If I remember correctly both FRS and GMRS are analog-only (except for Garmin radios that can transmit a location ping every so often), but GMRS could be used for a more complex radio topo than just walkie-talkies.

 

IIRC digital systems like MOTOTRBO (which is a pretty impressive system...watched it in action a week and a half ago) operate in UHF/VHF rather than GMRS. So no 450MHz there. But as others have said, FRS/GMRS is far from the only consumer of that spectrum.

[jefbal99]

Wasn't 450Mhz very popular up in Scandinavia for mobile devices?  I seem to remember reading about the services and migrations from analog to digital

[maximus1987/lou99]

Wasn't 450Mhz very popular up in Scandinavia for mobile devices? I seem to remember reading about the services and migrations from analog to digital

Don't forget GMRS. If I remember correctly both FRS and GMRS are analog-only (except for Garmin radios that can transmit a location ping every so often), but GMRS could be used for a more complex radio topo than just walkie-talkies.

 

IIRC digital systems like MOTOTRBO (which is a pretty impressive system...watched it in action a week and a half ago) operate in UHF/VHF rather than GMRS. So no 450MHz there. But as others have said, FRS/GMRS is far from the only consumer of that spectrum.

Yes. Poland is using it for CDMA EVDO b.

[maximus1987/lou99]

If you have limited, cramped bandwidth, my suggestion is to go TDD. The FDD gap between uplink and downlink -- plus potentially multiple guard bands against other services in the vicinity -- is a pain in the ass.

 

I like Qualcomm more than many do. But I think that Qualcomm's objections against TDD may be related to fears that WiMAX would take some of the TDD business, not so much legitimate technical concerns.

 

AJ

I thought you agreed TDD in 600 MHz was bad cause of the harmonics that would've interfered with GPS?

[kg4icg]

GPS is in 1600 mhz not 600 mhz, where the heck did that come from. 600 mhz is UHF tv channels.

[maximus1987/lou99]

GPS is in 1600 mhz not 600 mhz, where the heck did that come from. 600 mhz is UHF tv channels.

Harmonics. Wiki it.

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7022130223

Edited August 7, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[kg4icg]

Harmonics. Wiki it.

I know what a harmonic is. Use them everyday in transverting frequencies. Look carefully at my knick and then go to the fcc uls database and do a callsign lookup using my knick.