Softbank - New Sprint - Discussion

[Boosted20V]

I would love it if Sprint expanded its native corporate coverage. I'm just not convinced that's their plan yet.

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Well, lets think about what 16 billion will buy. NV 1.0 was around 8 bil, correct? All of these base stations can support whatever they have to throw at them. 2500 will require new antennas, RRUs, and carrier cards. Interesting aside, do you think any of the CLWR equipment will be reused? Point being, the 2500mhz rollout shouldn't take too much in terms of capital. Outside of spectrum auctions, the only thing I see taking that much cash is expansion.

 

Edit - something I didn't account for was taking care of GMO sites. Do you believe this funding to be factored into the original NV cost or will this require new investment?

[S4GRU]

Well, lets think about what 16 billion will buy. NV 1.0 was around 8 bil, correct? All of these base stations can support whatever they have to throw at them. 2500 will require new antennas, RRUs, and carrier cards. Interesting aside, do you think any of the CLWR equipment will be reused? Point being, the 2500mhz rollout shouldn't take too much in terms of capital. Outside of spectrum auctions, the only thing I see taking that much cash is expansion.

 

Edit - something I didn't account for was taking care of GMO sites. Do you believe this funding to be factored into the original NV cost or will this require new investment?

GMO to full build conversion hasn't been in any existing budgets. It has always been subject to future budgeting at the end of NV.

 

What you describe above is a plausible scenario in how the 16B could be spent. Also, when I think of pico cells and getting backhaul to them all, as well as a fully built out LTE 2600 network to every Top 100 market and expanding LTE 800 from 80% to 100%. Then I think we can spend that kind of money too without any expansion.

 

LTE 2600 is going to cause another round of backhaul investment in many places where the current backhaul just can't handle 3+ LTE carriers or speeds up to 100Mbps. When you couple all the issues, I'm just not certain they equal network expansion to new markets. Or it could be a mixed message. Maybe a limited expansion in some key markets?

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Boosted20V]

The backhaul argument is a good one, that kind of bandwidth must be costly. Also the GMOs won't be cheap either. And of course, this all assumes they have the revenue in the first place that SoftBank intends to use. There is a reason some markets have so many GMO sites though, and its because the justification of spend wasn't there with the other priorities on Sprint's plate.

[JeffDTD]

The original projected cost of NV with the first big press was $4-5 B. Later, after they had raised funds through debt and secured additional credit, we were told $5-7B. The completion estimate also went down from 3-5 years to 2-3 years, so you could argue the speed was part of the expense. Anyway, ive long believed that NV 1.0 is turning out to be even more expensive than predicted and that played a huge role in sprint secretly courting a suitor in summer 2012.

 

I have zero faith in any new markets. The micro -cell expansion could easily include filling in coverage holes in places like digiblur's territory, where coverage simply hasnt grown with residential migration. Anyway, it would be foolish to believe we gain swaths of coverage through anything but reciprocal roaming arrangements or mergers

 

Sent from my Note II. Its so big.

 

 

[avb]

Its hard to get activity going on a new stock like this. I mean, who would elect to get stock instead of cash and then immediately sell it the next day? The price has to be surging for that. Otherwise, people who decided to get stock were mostly long haul investors.

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

Yep that's true.  I work for a brokerage firm, and a few clients had Sprint stock.  They've watched their stock tank after the Nextel merger, so while the cash premium was nice it was still a huge loss.  They elected for shares in the new Sprint instead.

[runagun]

Nv1 cost was budgeted for lightsquare spectrum. After lightsquare didnt get the go ahead sprint wanted a billion or so back from the vendors.

[chris2420]

Most of it is going towards base stations. There must be some expansion with that many base stations being added. Plus that money buys more now that before because of bulk discounts 

 

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/softbank-set-to-invest-16-billion-at-sprint-20130707-00017

[Rukin1]

I wonder after a area is done with nv 1.0. What will they start next..

[JimBob]

I wonder after a area is done with nv 1.0. What will they start next..

NV 2.0

[MacinJosh]

I wonder after a area is done with nv 1.0. What will they start next..

NV 2.0

Network Vision 2.0 is primarily 800 LTE deployment, which is supposed to be starting very soon if it hasn't already. And now that Sprint owns Clearwire, they may incorporate 2500 LTE deployment into NV 2.0 too.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

[Rukin1]

Network Vision 2.0 is primarily 800 LTE deployment, which is supposed to be starting very soon if it hasn't already. And now that Sprint owns Clearwire, they may incorporate 2500 LTE deployment into NV 2.0 too.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

This is what i was wondering sir. Thanks

[utiz4321]

I am less optimistic about this merger now than I was a week ago. the new plans tell me that they don't get what it is going to take to grow market share in the US. hopefully I am wrong.

[koiulpoi]

I am less optimistic about this merger now than I was a week ago. the new plans tell me that they don't get what it is going to take to grow market share in the US. hopefully I am wrong.

Softbank had little to nothing to do with these plans. Sprint's had them cooking for a while, while Softbank was "aware" of them. As these plans aren't required, and have things like "The Unlimited Guarantee" slapped on, and being largely made so that customers can compare ATT/VZW plans side-by-side, Softbank still has plenty of room to maneuver ways to be competitive - and if they so choose, undercut the Big Two, whether that be new plans or otherwise.

[utiz4321]

Softbank had little to nothing to do with these plans. Sprint's had them cooking for a while, while Softbank was "aware" of them. As these plans aren't required, and have things like "The Unlimited Guarantee" slapped on, and being largely made so that customers can compare ATT/VZW plans side-by-side, Softbank still has plenty of room to maneuver ways to be competitive - and if they so choose, undercut the Big Two, whether that be new plans or otherwise.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't think sprint launches a whole new set of plans, ditching the old ones (for new customers) a few days after the deal closes with out softbank's approval. Sprint and SoftBank have been working closely since the deal was accepted by sprint's board (at least according to sprint and SoftBank). This can and should be seen as softbank's first move and it is not impressive.

[linhpham2]

These new plans from Sprint seem like a good step. To most average consumers, the new plans are going to appear to be cheaper than Verizon and AT&T. Other the other hand, the plans are going to provide more money to upgrade and maintain Sprint's network in the coming years.

[ericdabbs]

These new plans from Sprint seem like a good step. To most average consumers, the new plans are going to appear to be cheaper than Verizon and AT&T. Other the other hand, the plans are going to provide more money to upgrade and maintain Sprint's network in the coming years.

For individuals these plans have no effect except u do get screwed in the roaming but no biggie. The concern however is the cost of multiple lines which were cheaper in the old plans and certainly to att and vzw. These new plans do get rid of that $10 premium data charge confusion which is a good thing.

 

Sent from my HP Touchpad using Tapatalk 2

 

[koiulpoi]

I couldn't disagree more. I don't think sprint launches a whole new set of plans, ditching the old ones (for new customers) a few days after the deal closes with out softbank's approval. Sprint and SoftBank have been working closely since the deal was accepted by sprint's board (at least according to sprint and SoftBank). This can and should be seen as softbank's first move and it is not impressive.

You can disagree all you want, but...

 

1) This isn't Softbank's "First Move".

 

Mr. Hesse said the changes were "created and initiated" by Sprint and not by SoftBank, although the new parent company was aware of the plan.

 

source: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130711-709190.html

 

 

 

2) The reasoning was closing the Clearwire deal, not Softbank.

 

Mr. Hesse said the timing of the changes isn't coincidental, as Sprint needed to close the Clearwire deal in order to ensure it could provide unlimited data for the long-term. Clearwire controls large amounts of wireless airwaves that Sprint intends to use for a network expansion.

 

"We really needed to make sure that we had the spectrum capacity," Mr. Hesse said.

source: same article

 

 

 

3) The "old" plans have NOT been "ditched". The new plans are NOT mandatory. New customers can still sign up for the "old" plans, without restriction.

[linhpham2]

For individuals these plans have no effect except u do get screwed in the roaming but no biggie. The concern however is the cost of multiple lines which were cheaper in the old plans and certainly to att and vzw. These new plans do get rid of that $10 premium data charge confusion which is a good thing. Sent from my HP Touchpad using Tapatalk 2

 

Roaming can be disabled on the phone Even if Sprint cancelled my contract due to excessive roaming, at least I'd have an excuse to move to a better network.

 

Cheap plans = not enough money to maintain and upgrade the network ->> slow speeds. Oh well, pick your poison. You're screwed one way or another.

Edited July 15, 2013 by linhpham2

[utiz4321]

You can disagree all you want, but...

 

1) This isn't Softbank's "First Move".

 

 

source: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130711-709190.html

 

 

 

2) The reasoning was closing the Clearwire deal, not Softbank.

 

 

source: same article

 

 

 

3) The "old" plans have NOT been "ditched". The new plans are NOT mandatory. New customers can still sign up for the "old" plans, without restriction.

Call a sprint store tell them you are new and see what they say (I did it with four) or better try to sign up for the old plans online as a new customer. SoftBank has final say, if they thought this was a bad idea or hindered their plans it would not have gone forward. Hesse is being a bit self serving by saying the clear closer was the reason. It fits niecely with sprints contention that the unlimited garrentee is a value proposition (i dont think it is as sprint would be the only carrier to force people off unlimited. in affect all other carriers have an unlimited garantee by the way they have acted) while allowing them to ignore that this is indeed a price hike. In other words coroprate propaganda. Buy it if you want to buy it, but I will not. Action speak louder than words. This is softbank's first move, hopefully they can provide some really value to justify the price rise (like a network that is better than Verizon or AT&T) or I think this investment of theirs will fail.

[Nickel]

Call a sprint store tell them you are new and see what they say (I did it with four) or better try to sign up for the old plans online as a new customer. SoftBank has final say, if they thought this was a bad idea or hindered their plans it would not have gone forward. Hesse is being a bit self serving by saying the clear closer was the reason. It fits niecely with sprints contention that the unlimited garrentee is a value proposition (i dont think it is as sprint would be the only carrier to force people off unlimited. in affect all other carriers have an unlimited garantee by the way they have acted) while allowing them to ignore that this is indeed a price hike. In other words coroprate propaganda. Buy it if you want to buy it, but I will not. Action speak louder than words. This is softbank's first move, hopefully they can provide some really value to justify the price rise (like a network that is better than Verizon or AT&T) or I think this investment of theirs will fail.

Uh, I haven't been around here very long but I'm pretty sure the guy you're talking to is a Sprint Employee (or is in someway working with them), so that call a Sprint store thing doesn't really work.

[halcyoncmdr]

Network Vision 2.0 is primarily 800 LTE deployment, which is supposed to be starting very soon if it hasn't already. And now that Sprint owns Clearwire, they may incorporate 2500 LTE deployment into NV 2.0 too.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

LTE 800 deployment is starting now that iDEN is shutdown. I've seen 3 month windows on some towers for LTE 800...   

 

Weirdly enough, I've seen some towers have a 3 month window for CDMA 800 and LTE 800, but a 6 month window for CDMA 1900 and LTE 1900. THAT is something I can't understand.

[koiulpoi]

Call a sprint store tell them you are new and see what they say (I did it with four) or better try to sign up for the old plans online as a new customer.

Sure, let me just turn to my manager and ask him if the old plans are still available.

 

Well, what do you know, they are. Yes, we're supposed to push the new plans first for new customers. No, they are not required.

 

SoftBank has final say, if they thought this was a bad idea or hindered their plans it would not have gone forward. Hesse is being a bit self serving by saying the clear closer was the reason. It fits niecely with sprints contention that the unlimited garrentee is a value proposition (i dont think it is as sprint would be the only carrier to force people off unlimited. in affect all other carriers have an unlimited garantee by the way they have acted) while allowing them to ignore that this is indeed a price hike. In other words coroprate propaganda. Buy it if you want to buy it, but I will not. Action speak louder than words. This is softbank's first move, hopefully they can provide some really value to justify the price rise (like a network that is better than Verizon or AT&T) or I think this investment of theirs will fail.

Wait, what? I literally just gave you quotes from Hesse himself, as quoted in the Wall Street Journal, posting evidence against what you said. Instead of countering with your own evidence, you write it off and ignore it, for the sole reason that it disagrees with you - and then just repeat the same thing you already said.

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.

 

(as an aside, Sprint isn't forcing anyone off Unlimited. Sprint isn't forcing anyone off anything right now. No other carrier ever guaranteed unlimited "for life". The reason for the "Unlimited Guarantee" is that consumers have lived through VZW and ATT destroy unlimited and force them off - it gives Sprint an even stronger market position by saying "come to us and you can have it forever".)

[MacinJosh]

LTE 800 deployment is starting now that iDEN is shutdown. I've seen 3 month windows on some towers for LTE 800... 

 

Weirdly enough, I've seen some towers have a 3 month window for CDMA 800 and LTE 800, but a 6 month window for CDMA 1900 and LTE 1900. THAT is something I can't understand.

 

What? That is really odd.

[IamMrFamous07]

We can still give new customers the older plans

[utiz4321]

Sure, let me just turn to my manager and ask him if the old plans are still available.

 

Well, what do you know, they are. Yes, we're supposed to push the new plans first for new customers. No, they are not required.

 

Wait, what? I literally just gave you quotes from Hesse himself, as quoted in the Wall Street Journal, posting evidence against what you said. Instead of countering with your own evidence, you write it off and ignore it, for the sole reason that it disagrees with you - and then just repeat the same thing you already said.

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.

 

(as an aside, Sprint isn't forcing anyone off Unlimited. Sprint isn't forcing anyone off anything right now. No other carrier ever guaranteed unlimited "for life". The reason for the "Unlimited Guarantee" is that consumers have lived through VZW and ATT destroy unlimited and force them off - it gives Sprint an even stronger market position by saying "come to us and you can have it forever".)

I have called four stores in my area all of them pushed me into the new plans and didn't give me the option for the old ones even when i threaten to walk. You can not get them online. If they are that hard to get for an informed consumer they not avalible to the average one for all intents and purposes. Hesse can spin this how he wants, but bottom line is if SoftBank had a problem with these new plans they wouldn't have happened. If you think it still could have happened with out SoftBanks approval then you should spend sometime learning how coroprate governance works. But hey everything that companies tell their employees in 100 percent true and not self serving at all, right.

 

Also vzw and AT&T have not forced any of their customers off unlimited data. The might have not offered certain services with unlisted data like FaceTime or handset subsidies , but none of their customers are forced to leave unlimited data. I have never claimed people are being forced off the old plans, so why you keep bring that up is beyond me.

 

I have like Hesse since he took over and have been with sprint for 9years, even while I worked for other carriers. I was very excited about this merger. I am less so now because of these new plans that at the very least receive tacit support from softbank.

Further sprint doesn't say that they grantee unlimited data and hand set subsidies for life did they? So they could still pull the samething vzw has done or that all service will be avalible, so they can still do the thing AT&T has done.