Sprint TD-LTE 2500/2600mhz Discussion

[IamMrFamous07]

Did they mention how long it will take them to deploy 2.5 on all 38k sites? Hopefully by the end of next year.

 

And then by end of 2015 all WiMAX sites should be converted to LTE

[ericdabbs]

Did they mention how long it will take them to deploy 2.5 on all 38k sites? Hopefully by the end of next year.

 

And then by end of 2015 all WiMAX sites should be converted to LTE

 

There is no way that all 38K sites plus maybe the 14K Clearwire sites (or maybe subset of those 14K sites) will be completed with 2.5 LTE by end of next year.  I am thinking its going to take a lot longer than end of 2014 to deploy 2.5 LTE on every single Sprint site.

 

Even if all 38K sites were upgraded with Network Vision equipment right now its going to take at least 2 years because of all that permitting and zoning, availability of equipment and of course manpower.  I am going to guess at least by mid 2016 this should be complete.

[maximus1987/lou99]

There is no way that all 38K sites plus maybe the 14K Clearwire sites (or maybe subset of those 14K sites) will be completed with 2.5 LTE by end of next year. I am thinking its going to take a lot longer than end of 2014 to deploy 2.5 LTE on every single Sprint site.

 

Even if all 38K sites were upgraded with Network Vision equipment right now its going to take at least 2 years because of all that permitting and zoning, availability of equipment and of course manpower. I am going to guess at least by mid 2016 this should be complete.

Let's get a more authoritative answer. Backhaul was the major reason why NV 1.0 was so slow. Is installing panels really gonna take as long as backhaul+panels?

[Paynefanbro]

Let's get a more authoritative answer. Backhaul was the major reason why NV 1.0 was so slow. Is installing panels really gonna take as long as backhaul+panels?

 

 I think that it will move at the same pace as T-Mobile's.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I think that it will move at the same pace as T-Mobile's.

In other words, really fast. Excellent point. TMO had fiber to urban sites and all they did was swap panels and ??some basestations?? Edited July 30, 2013 by asdf190

[COZisBack]

Let's get a more authoritative answer. Backhaul was the major reason why NV 1.0 was so slow. Is installing panels really gonna take as long as backhaul+panels?

 

We can run into the same type of delays, regarding manufacturing of antennas and RRUs. As well as issues with property owners making the time available to contractors.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

In other words, really fast. Excellent point. TMO had fiber to urban sites and all they did was swap panels and ??some basestations??

Exactly. Lets optimistically hope so.

 

 

Sent from my Sprint iPhone 5, not the old one (using Tapatalk 2).

[jroepcke51]

Did they mention how long it will take them to deploy 2.5 on all 38k sites? Hopefully by the end of next year.

 

And then by end of 2015 all WiMAX sites should be converted to LTE

Yes they did mention their plan to deploy. They said the hoped to have a significant number of 2.5 on the sites (sites being Sprint 38K, Clearwire 12K and potentially new sites/locations).

 

There is no way that all 38K sites plus maybe the 14K Clearwire sites (or maybe subset of those 14K sites) will be completed with 2.5 LTE by end of next year.  I am thinking its going to take a lot longer than end of 2014 to deploy 2.5 LTE on every single Sprint site.

 

Even if all 38K sites were upgraded with Network Vision equipment right now its going to take at least 2 years because of all that permitting and zoning, availability of equipment and of course manpower.  I am going to guess at least by mid 2016 this should be complete.

I would agree that yes it would be a task to include new 3 antennas on all of the towers. However, if a tower already has backhaul and LTE active, I don't see the hold up.  On the call, it was stated they are going to out to the OEM's and request bidding.  IMO it sounded like it would be separate vendors than NV 1.0.

 

Let's get a more authoritative answer. Backhaul was the major reason why NV 1.0 was so slow. Is installing panels really gonna take as long as backhaul+panels?

Bingo.  On the call, it was stated to deploy 2.5 would be adding cards/equipment to existing cabinets and an additional antenna per sector. This is similar to what TMO is currently doing and the upgrades that Verizon is doing to its network.

[marioc21]

Here's an interview with the CFO. 

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-cfo-softbank-deal-lets-us-take-clearwire-spectrum-nationwide/2013-07-30

 

 

"Now that we own 100 percent of Clearwire, with the help of SoftBank, we said, how do we take full advantage of the 2.5 GHz spectrum?" Euteneuer said. "The best way to do that is to have it fully integrated with the rest of your spectrum capabilities. And to do that you really need to put it on every tower."

 

The Sprint CFO said because of the weaker propagation characteristics of 2.5 GHz, Sprint will deploy small cells and other sites beyond the 38,000 Network Vision sites the company has mapped out. He said it is unclear at this point if the nationwide deployment of Clearwire's spectrum will be finished by the end of 2014. Clearwire commands around 160 MHz of spectrum in the top 100 markets.

...

 

Looking ahead though, Elfman said the 2.5 GHz expansion will proceed at a brisk clip. "It will not be fully built up, but it will be quite a bit easier than the current Network Vision plan because we will already have backhaul," Elfman said of the 2.5 GHz expansion, according to a Seeking Alpha transcript. "We will already have done most of the leasing and it will be more of an overlay effect the way you're seeing our competitors do overlay LTE network. So it will move much faster than the current Network Vision plan."

 

Euetneuer said the cost of the 2.5 GHz buildout is already included in Sprint's network spending projections. "Clearly we think we can do it in the constructs of the capital that's already been put out there," he said. Sprint plans to spend $8 billion on capital expenditures in 2013, and, according to a proxy statement Sprint filed in June with the Securities and Exchange Commissions, envisions spending $8 billion in 2014.

 

...

 

The expanded Clearwire deployment will require adding antennas to cell sites, Euteneuer said, not just replacing line cards. However, he said the added capacity will bring a noticeable improvement in customers' real-world speeds, though he did not specify what kind of speeds customers will see when they access Clearwire's spectrum for TD-LTE service.

...

 

The expanded Clearwire deployment will likely be carried out by Network Vision vendors Alcatel-Lucent (NASDAQ: ALU), Ericsson (NASDAQ:ERIC) and Samsung, or perhaps by another vendor as well, Euteneuer said, depending on how the contracts get ironed out.
 

...

 

 

[xenophonkc]

I don't understand why there is as much focus on 2500 by media and even Sprint, 800 not even mentioned.  Its 800Mhz that will turn Sprint around by significantly improving coverage and building penetration.  2500 is good in long term for capacity as needed but its 800 that is very very important in the next year.  

[DaQue]

2500= capacity and the possibility of industry leading transfer speeds due to the large amount od spectrum available.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[lilotimz]

The expanded Clearwire deployment will likely be carried out by Network Vision vendors Alcatel-Lucent (NASDAQ: ALU), Ericsson (NASDAQ:ERIC) and Samsung, or perhaps by another vendor as well, Euteneuer said, depending on how the contracts get ironed out.

I hear Nokia Siemens Networks has some spare capacity in their TD-LTE division.... 

[koiulpoi]

I don't understand why there is as much focus on 2500 by media and even Sprint, 800 not even mentioned.  Its 800Mhz that will turn Sprint around by significantly improving coverage and building penetration.  2500 is good in long term for capacity as needed but its 800 that is very very important in the next year.

I think the real big deal is that 2500 was previously thought to only be on Clearwire sites, and even then, only a "hotspot" rollout here and there. Now, it's going to be on every site AND on a number of small cells. That's huge. 800 MHz will be great, and so will 2500. 

 

2500 is also a differentiator due to the huge amount of spectrum Sprint can throw at it, along with being TDD-LTE. Low frequency is nice and all, but it's not the lowest, and it's not the most, so if you're a reporter, do you really care that (in their eyes) Sprint's low-frequency holdings are "a day late and a dollar short" to the big two?

 

I hear Nokia Siemens Networks has some spare capacity in their TD-LTE division.... *wishes*

What makes Nokia Siemens stand out?

 

Is the official language of S4GRU now Pidgin?

 

 

AJ

No ya git, itz ork.

[DaQue]

Dish  network installers 

[linhpham2]

What makes Nokia Siemens stand out?

 

 

 

Faster production of 2.5 equipment? More available techs to install 2.5 equipment?

[lilotimz]

What makes Nokia Siemens stand out?

 

 

Nokia Siemens equipment are among the best for telecom equipment and are pound for pound equivalent to Ericsson & Samsung and far above alcatel-lucent. Ericsson & ALU has their hands full with ATT/ Verizon / T-Mobile and are already at max capacity whereas NSN most likely has plenty to spare. 

[TyrellCorpse]

2500= capacity and the possibility of industry leading transfer speeds due to the large amount od spectrum available.

 

 

Is surprising 800 is rarely talked about by even Sprint.  Sprint badly needs it to compete with ATT/VZW, this is their key item over the next year.  2500 will add capacity and maybe more performance if enough backhaul but that is really more of a marketing/bragging rights thing in short term as smartphone apps don't need more than a few Mbps today.  Latency matter more to smartphone apps after a few Mbps.  At least with the 2500 capacity is not an issue but it's 800 that will bring customers back.  

[utiz4321]

Is surprising 800 is rarely talked about by even Sprint. Sprint badly needs it to compete with ATT/VZW, this is their key item over the next year. 2500 will add capacity and maybe more performance if enough backhaul but that is really more of a marketing/bragging rights thing in short term as smartphone apps don't need more than a few Mbps today. Latency matter more to smartphone apps after a few Mbps. At least with the 2500 capacity is not an issue but it's 800 that will bring customers back.

I think sprint talks a lot about their whole portfolio of spectrum and realizes how important of a competitive advantage the spread of spectrum gives them. The whole idea behind NV is to harmonize their spectrum across network technologies in a way that the competition can not match without a similar effort. The media focus on 2.5 I think is because NV's advantages are hard to explain in the limited amount of words they have and if you want some advantage that can be communicated easily (and concisely) it is sprint's massive 2.5 holdings.

[TyrellCorpse]

I'm thinking a better/simple message to spread would be...  800 will allow Sprint to kill Tmobile in coverage and be more comparable to ATT/VZW after rollout completes and BTW, 2500 will give Sprint more capacity than everyone else too.  

 

2500 is a bonus, not the key core asset.  2500 is great to augment 800/1900 but as Clear has shown, 2500 is not as valuable by itself.  800 is the key core asset and they finally can use it. 

[Thomas L.]

I don't understand why there is as much focus on 2500 by media and even Sprint, 800 not even mentioned. Its 800Mhz that will turn Sprint around by significantly improving coverage and building penetration. 2500 is good in long term for capacity as needed but its 800 that is very very important in the next year.

Everyone seems to have a hard on over speed, and that's what the media is focusing on. You even see a lot of people here focusing on speed because it's a bragging rights thing. I, personally, like you, am more interested in the increased coverage of LTE 800. In the long term the Clearwire spectrum will be a big deal though. Higher data usage is where the world is going, and whoever can successfully provide that will have a real advantage.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[linhpham2]

I'm thinking a better/simple message to spread would be...  800 will allow Sprint to kill Tmobile in coverage and be more comparable to ATT/VZW after rollout completes

 

 

800 will give Sprint better coverage in the major cities and the suburbs. In the more smaller cities and rural areas I'd expect Sprint to remain in 3rd place behind Verizon and AT&T. If Sprint wants to improve their rural coverage, in 5 years, I'd expect them to buyout T-Mobile.

[utiz4321]

I'm thinking a better/simple message to spread would be... 800 will allow Sprint to kill Tmobile in coverage and be more comparable to ATT/VZW after rollout completes and BTW, 2500 will give Sprint more capacity than everyone else too.

 

2500 is a bonus, not the key core asset. 2500 is great to augment 800/1900 but as Clear has shown, 2500 is not as valuable by itself. 800 is the key core asset and they finally can use it.

I wouldn't go that far. The whole spectrum portfolio is the key core asset when tied to NV. Both AT&T and vzw have low frequencies for both voice and lte. Sprint is also only working with one 5x5 lte carrier and 1xadvance carrier so comparing only the 800 asset with AT&T and vzw low spectrum assets doesn't have sprint pull even with them. 800 is great and important to sprint for in building penetration and coverage but has less capacity than 1900 or 2.5. The capacity of 2.5 will allow sprint to continue unlimited data as well as reach compatible speeds (in the future faster speeds). It really is how sprint is organizing all of their spectrum assets to work across their technologies that is impressive.

[TyrellCorpse]

^Yeah, that's a good point.  800 and 2500 both have their benefits and neither can carry the network on its own.  But it's odd that 800 is never really talked about.  Sprint badly needs to boost coverage and bogged down 3G today, at a higher priority than more speed than most need (today).  They need to speak out that coverage improvements are coming but they are more focused talking about 2500 capacity.

 

BTW, while Sprint is only doing 5x5 800 and ATT/VZW are doing 10x10, Sprint has half the customers so in general have half the users per site.  And given 1900 5x5, Sprint already essentially has double the capacity as ATT/VZW in near term, before even using 2500. 2500 is a great strategic band, 800 is the essential band for the next year that will bring back customers.

Edited July 30, 2013 by TyrellCorpse

[gnoj]

It is approximately 5,500 Clearwire sites colocated with Sprint.  Or, 40% OF 14,000.

 

rOBERT

 

Will any of the ~8,500 Clearwire sites that are not currently colocated with Sprint receive full NV (800/1900 equipment) upgrades? Or are they all close enough to existing Sprint sites that they would only provide redundant coverage? If Sprint is planning on installing new small cells to help overcome 2500's limited range, then perhaps some of those will be on such Clearwire sites that would otherwise prove redundant.

 

With 38k sites (or is it 39k now- not sure if the stats on the Sites Complete page includes converted Nextel and Clearwire sites or not) + an untold number of small cells (perhaps 8,500?) + a handful of old Nextel sites would leave Sprint with a very dense and robust network before even counting new sites that may be added if Son wants to expand the native footprint to take on the big two in rural areas and out west- all with TD LTE!

 

It would also leave T-Mo with almost no choice but to upgrade all their EDGE sites to at least HSPA+. I think we'll know within 18 months if DT will sell off the company to Dish or keep it and put some money and effort into improving their network.

[S4GRU]

I don't know why there is so much concern about 800MHz.  Do you really think Sprint doesn't care about it?  Sprint recently said in the past week or two they are accelerating LTE 800 deployment and trying to get it live on all NV completed sites by the end of the year.  Presumably, by sometime this fall, all new LTE sites accepted will get 800 and 1900 LTE live at the same time.

 

This recent talk about all the LTE 2600 is because of the media's fixation on merging with Clearwire and the faster speeds, capacity and mondo spectrum.  This is not a reflection on Sprint and their priorities.  And the bottom line is all of Sprint's spectrum assets and tri-band LTE deployment is important.

 

Robert