Sprint TD-LTE 2500/2600mhz Discussion

[ericdabbs]

So I was reading from Robert's post below in the iPhone 5S wall post

 

"Longer? How do you figure? It will be way faster. They just have to add a panel and a carrier card. Everything else will be there from the original Network Vision upgrade. It will be more like Tmo's upgrade...just an overlay.

And now with SoftBank money and the fact that wireless crews should be a little less busy next year than this year, the Band 41 overlay should take less than 12 months start to finish on existing Network Vision sites.

Also, Sprint will have the existing WiMax sites with a complete LTE Band 41 overlay complete in Spring 2014. So there will be a lot of Band 41 coverage that will be missed during the contract life of this device. But a supplemental Triband hotspot is not that expensive if one is ever needed/desired.

Robert"

 

I am curious if this estimate of Sprint 2014 is including the 40% Clearwire colocated sites (~14,000 * 0.40 = ~ 5600 sites) or just the Clearwire only sites (~14000 - 5600 = ~ 8400 sites).  I guess what I am asking is if the plan is for Sprint to have the ~8400 Clearwire sites upgrades to TD-LTE complete by Spring 2014 OR all ~14,000 Clearwire sites which include the colocated sites by Spring 2014?

 

I would surely hope that Sprint is not upgrading the colocated Clearwire sites unless the Sprint side has had backhaul installed.  I want Sprint in colocated Clearwire sites to move all the Wimax/TD-LTE carrier cards and equipment into the Sprint MMBS and use Sprint fiber backhaul so that it makes things easier for integration and Sprint can get rid of the Clearwire base station and get rid of the extra Clearwire backhaul since it has lower capacity anyways (not sure if you can consolidate Sprint's own fiber backhaul and Clearwire's backhaul into one huge pipe...I doubt it).

[mhammett]

In order to be compatible with both band 38 and band 41, Sprint would have to hold sufficient spectrum in the 2572-2614 MHz range; the 2570-2572 MHz and 2614-2620 MHz ranges are off limits. Then, Sprint would have to deploy at least one TD-LTE carrier in that 2572-2614 MHz range, and it would need to utilize MFBI to be recognized by both band 38 mobiles and band 41 mobiles.

 

Long story short, such is probably not possible in every market, thus not likely for several years, if ever.

 

AJ

I see no reason why both couldn't be supported. Just because you don't have 100% coverage doesn't mean you just ignore it. Utilize what you have.

 

 

I would surely hope that Sprint is not upgrading the colocated Clearwire sites unless the Sprint side has had backhaul installed. I want Sprint in colocated Clearwire sites to move all the Wimax/TD-LTE carrier cards and equipment into the Sprint MMBS and use Sprint fiber backhaul so that it makes things easier for integration and Sprint can get rid of the Clearwire base station and get rid of the extra Clearwire backhaul since it has lower capacity anyways (not sure if you can consolidate Sprint's own fiber backhaul and Clearwire's backhaul into one huge pipe...I doubt it).

Clear has sufficient capacity at many sites. No need to dis Clear backhaul across the board. There's also no reason they can't use the same pipe.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[WiWavelength]

I see no reason why both couldn't be supported. Just because you don't have 100% coverage doesn't mean you just ignore it. Utilize what you have.

 

Therein lies the problem.  Sprint/Clearwire does not have a lease on every EBS license in every market.  In plenty of markets, the leased EBS licenses are like swiss cheese.  A missing lease or two may not leave enough contiguous spectrum in the band 38 range to allow for a 20 MHz TDD carrier.

 

And if Denver is any indication, we have seen Sprint/Clearwire deploying the 20 MHz TDD carrier in contiguous BRS spectrum.  That is far more consistent from market to market, and it may make leased EBS spectrum expendable.  Whether the Denver EARFCN will hold up nationwide, though, remains to be seen.  Unfortunately, others have not been as diligent as Robert in tracking and reporting their TD-LTE 2600 EARFCNs.

 

AJ

[ericdabbs]

I see no reason why both couldn't be supported. Just because you don't have 100% coverage doesn't mean you just ignore it. Utilize what you have.

 

Clear has sufficient capacity at many sites. No need to dis Clear backhaul across the board. There's also no reason they can't use the same pipe.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

What are you defining as sufficient capacity?  I am thinking Clearwire backhaul must have enough capacity to be able to support 2 x 20 MHz TD-LTE carriers plus enough to support 1 x 10 MHz Wimax carrier to be safe for 3 sectors.  I am looking at the future of what Sprint could deploy.

[bigsnake49]

Therein lies the problem.  Sprint/Clearwire does not have a lease on every EBS license in every market.  In plenty of markets, the leased EBS licenses are like swiss cheese.  A missing lease or two may not leave enough contiguous spectrum in the band 38 range to allow for a 20 MHz TDD carrier.

 

And if Denver is any indication, we have seen Sprint/Clearwire deploying the 20 MHz TDD carrier in contiguous BRS spectrum.  That is far more consistent from market to market, and it may make leased EBS spectrum expendable.  Whether the Denver EARFCN will hold up nationwide, though, remains to be seen.  Unfortunately, others have not been as diligent as Robert in tracking and reporting their TD-LTE 2600 EARFCNs.

 

AJ

 

You know I'm all for Sprint selling the EBS leases to Dish and hostin Dish's spectrum.

Edited September 11, 2013 by bigsnake49

[mhammett]

Therein lies the problem.  Sprint/Clearwire does not have a lease on every EBS license in every market.  In plenty of markets, the leased EBS licenses are like swiss cheese.  A missing lease or two may not leave enough contiguous spectrum in the band 38 range to allow for a 20 MHz TDD carrier.

 

And if Denver is any indication, we have seen Sprint/Clearwire deploying the 20 MHz TDD carrier in contiguous BRS spectrum.  That is far more consistent from market to market, and it may make leased EBS spectrum expendable.  Whether the Denver EARFCN will hold up nationwide, though, remains to be seen.  Unfortunately, others have not been as diligent as Robert in tracking and reporting their TD-LTE 2600 EARFCNs.

 

AJ

 

I would, but I don't have a tri-band device.

 

Actually, I personally know a few people with 2.5 Ghz spectrum, so I know that Sprint doesn't have it all. ;-)

 

Can the equipment gracefully step from 5 to 10 to 20 MHz channels? Either Apple will have to make the iPhone 6 with the right channels or Sprint will have to deploy more carriers across the board. iPhones aren't as big as they were, but they're still a big share of the market.

 

What are you defining as sufficient capacity?  I am thinking Clearwire backhaul must have enough capacity to be able to support 2 x 20 MHz TD-LTE carriers plus enough to support 1 x 10 MHz Wimax carrier to be safe for 3 sectors.  I am looking at the future of what Sprint could deploy.

 

While I can't for certain know their architecture, I do know that most licenses I've looked at lately meet or exceed 300 megabit and their are multiple per tower. Likely if there are two links it is a ring, but most have big pipes.

 

You know I'm all for Sprint selling the EBS leases to Dish and hostin Dish's spectrum.

 

I'm for them offering the piecemeal licenses to anyone but Dish, including small independents.

[dedub]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-cfo-apples-iphone-5s-and-5c-do-not-support-lte-25-ghz-spectrum/2013-09-11

[JohnHovah]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-cfo-apples-iphone-5s-and-5c-do-not-support-lte-25-ghz-spectrum/2013-09-11

The only thing that we didn't already know was this tidbit at the end, which may be cause for some worry depending on which way those prices and plans are going in the future.  I can only believe that Softbank will try to undercut the competitors but who knows.   

 

"He said the 2.5 GHz rollout could allow Sprint to explore "what's your premium services vs. what's not a premium service."

 

[iansltx]

The only thing that we didn't already know was this tidbit at the end, which may be cause for some worry depending on which way those prices and plans are going in the future.  I can only believe that Softbank will try to undercut the competitors but who knows.   

 

"He said the 2.5 GHz rollout could allow Sprint to explore "what's your premium services vs. what's not a premium service."

 

Fixed products? One can only hope

 

Realistically though, my guess is that Sprint will roll out "X GB at full speed, then throttled thereafter" on hotspots first, then phones later...with the catch being the definition of "throttled"...I wouldn't be surprised if it was 5-10 Mbps.

 

Alternately, premium pricing may be another network upgrade down the road. 10x10 FD-LTE can hold its own against 20MHz TD-LTE in real-world situations, using 2x2 MIMO on both. But if Sprint gets higher-order MIMO going...or puts two 20MHz carriers together...they'll be able to outpace everyone else. Which would allow them to offer an "everyone else" tier and an "us" tier without raising hackles. Folks like me would pay extra to hit peak speeds of 100 Mbps, and everyone else would sit at lower speeds for more reasonable prices.

[gnoj]

I don't imagine Sprint would want to become a WISP right after they've killed off Clearwire.

 

As for mobile, until Sprint matches the twin bell's in data speed/capacity and native coverage, they have no business charging the "premium" prices those companies get away with. The day that could be viable for them is still far away, if it ever arrives at all.

[tmiw]

Anyone think Sprint will give more priority to markets within the IBEZ when rolling out 2600? At least, after it's rolled out where there's already WIMAX.

[S4GRU]

Anyone think Sprint will give more priority to markets within the IBEZ when rolling out 2600? At least, after it's rolled out where there's already WIMAX.

No. It's my understanding that they are treating all NV sites as one phase for Band 41 deployment. They are currently doing RF planning and design through the end of the year. Then they will start equipment procurement and start the jurisidictional planning/permitting around January 1st.

 

Since approximately 1/3 of Sprint sites will require no planning/permitting or have just easy to get counter permits, these are likely to be the first ones out the gate in the first half of 2014. If really well planned, a Band 41 site upgrade could be done in a day or two at each site.

 

Then second third have normal permitting/planning. These will likely start the second half of 2014. The final third are high barrier to entry markets with difficult and burdensome permitting/planning. These will likely carry over in 2015. However long the cities can make it difficult and drag it out.

 

So I expect some cities that have been really easy to work with, like Tulsa, may get Band 41 put on their NV sites much faster than say a city like Madison.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

 

 

[poyo]

has anyone in the Tampa FL area seen an TD-LTE signal?

[Terrell352]

I dont think anyone in the tampa thread bought a triband hotspot.

has anyone in the Tampa FL area seen an TD-LTE signal?

[Terrell352]

I have a good question. If I have a Wimax protection site that just so happens to be on a sprint nv tower and lets say they converted it to TD LTE. Would they skip the network vision 2600 on the nv tower and just put it one the clearwire part or will both get it?

[Mobilesolutions]

I have a good question. If I have a Wimax protection site that just so happens to be on a sprint nv tower and lets say they converted it to TD LTE. Would they skip the network vision 2600 on the nv tower and just put it one the clearwire part or will both get it?

Your site will get band 25,26&41. 

-Will

[Terrell352]

Your site will get band 25,26&41. 

-Will

So that tower would get 2 different carriers of 20 mhz td lte?

[Mobilesolutions]

So that tower would get 2 different carriers of 20 mhz td lte?

No sir, 5MHz FDD, 5MHz FDD, 20MHz TDD.

-Will

[Terrell352]

You don't understand my question. Read carefully. A Sprint and Clearwire site is on the same tower. This tower right now is a Wimax protection site that is likely to get a TD LTE upgrade because of the deal sprint made to take down the old equipment. There is another part of the tower where Sprint has already done a LTE upgrade. Since clearwire sites will likely be upgraded to TD LTE sites and Sprint sites will also get LTE sites this means that technically there will be 2 clearwire parts each on a 20 mhz frequency. My question was will sprint upgrade both with the 2 separate 20mhz frequencies or will Sprint only upgrade the protection site part of the tower and only put 800 and 1900 LTE on the sprint part of the tower since the protection site is already broadcasting TD LTE on 20mhz?

No sir, 5MHz FDD, 5MHz FDD, 20MHz TDD.

-Will

[lilotimz]

You don't understand my question. Read carefully. A Sprint and Clearwire site is on the same tower. This tower right now is a Wimax protection site that is likely to get a TD LTE upgrade because of the deal sprint made to take down the old equipment. There is another part of the tower where Sprint has already done a LTE upgrade. Since clearwire sites will likely be upgraded to TD LTE sites and Sprint sites will also get LTE sites this means that technically there will be 2 clearwire parts each on a 20 mhz frequency. My question was will sprint upgrade both with the 2 separate 20mhz frequencies or will Sprint only upgrade the protection site part of the tower and only put 800 and 1900 LTE on the sprint part of the tower since the protection site is already broadcasting TD LTE on 20mhz?

 

The clearwire side will get upgraded either with a software upgrade to enable dual mode td-lte / wimax operations (huawei DBS 3900) or get a replacement RRU (samsung / ericsson/ nsn). 

 

After Phase 2 is complete mid next year, sprint will go back and apply for permits to remove and relocate antenna and rewire the equipment to the network vision cabinets and decomission the clearwire equipment. 

 

There will only be 5mhz SMR, 5 mhz PCS G (or a second LTE PCS carrier if sprint decides to do so), and a single 20mhz TDD carrier for LTE at any given site. 

[Terrell352]

Thank you. I am now informed.

The clearwire side will get upgraded either with a software upgrade to enable dual mode td-lte / wimax operations (huawei DBS 3900) or get a replacement RRU (samsung / ericsson/ nsn).

 

After Phase 2 is complete mid next year, sprint will go back and apply for permits to remove and relocate antenna and rewire the equipment to the network vision cabinets and decomission the clearwire equipment.

 

There will only be 5mhz SMR, 5 mhz PCS G (or a second LTE PCS carrier if sprint decides to do so), and a single 20mhz TDD carrier for LTE at any given site.

[Mobilesolutions]

You don't understand my question. Read carefully. A Sprint and Clearwire site is on the same tower. This tower right now is a Wimax protection site that is likely to get a TD LTE upgrade because of the deal sprint made to take down the old equipment. There is another part of the tower where Sprint has already done a LTE upgrade. Since clearwire sites will likely be upgraded to TD LTE sites and Sprint sites will also get LTE sites this means that technically there will be 2 clearwire parts each on a 20 mhz frequency. My question was will sprint upgrade both with the 2 separate 20mhz frequencies or will Sprint only upgrade the protection site part of the tower and only put 800 and 1900 LTE on the sprint part of the tower since the protection site is already broadcasting TD LTE on 20mhz?

My answer stands.

-Will

[KD8JBF]

So we took about a thirty minute trip south to Palm Beach Gardens, FL and check out what I got!

 

 

Band 41!

 

Did a couple speed tests though....

 

 

 

Up and down....

 

But B41 is here at the Gardens!

 

P.s...don't mind the AT&T phone...it's going away when I get my LG G2!

 

Kris

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Vince]

That speedtest app can be goofy sometimes. I have also seen that -1ms ping on pcs LTE in Chicago.

[IcJc]

So we took about a thirty minute trip south to Palm Beach Gardens, FL and check out what I got!

 

 

 

Band 41!

 

Did a couple speed tests though....

 

 

 

 

 

Up and down....

 

But B41 is here at the Gardens!

 

P.s...don't mind the AT&T phone...it's going away when I get my LG G2!

 

Kris

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Crazy!! I have never seen a negative number on the ping before...!!

 

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