Verizon NSA Controversy

[matt7701]

Do you guys think that sprint will get more customers due to the Verizon issue?  Good, Bad?

[S4GRU]

No, because it will probably turn out Sprint and AT&T did it too.

 

Robert

[WiWavelength]

Hold on, what is the controversy?  Is this a news item today?

 

AJ

[cletus]

No, because it will probably turn out Sprint and AT&T did it too.

 

Robert

Yep. I believe I read that Sprint got something like over 8 million requests for GPS/logging information per year and in fact has an automated system they set up for this very purpose.

 

 

ATT has colocated facilities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A to dump mirrored information directly to the NSA. 

[dedub]

yesterday and today it is all over the news, that the NSA and us government have been secretly getting 'metadata' and other information from VZ specifically and 'allegedly' has direct access to all the big name social/tech firms servers and data.

 

google news nsa and I am sure you shall be enlightened

[cletus]

Hold on, what is the controversy?  Is this a news item today?

 

AJ

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/07/social-media-verizon-nsa/2400623/

 

People are upset that Verizon is providing information over 30 day periods that ATT has already been providing for over a decade. Verizon tries to say "its just metadata!" which just means it can contain everything but the actual voice in the call... supposedly. 

[S4GRU]

Hold on, what is the controversy?  Is this a news item today?

 

AJ

 

I missed it yesterday entirely, but I heard about it on the radio this morning.

 

Robert

[WiWavelength]

Okay, got it.  Thanks, and the thread title has been updated.

 

Folks, please use appropriate, descriptive thread titles.  Failure to do so has become a problem of late.

 

AJ

[matt7701]

Yes, Sprint gets requests but they are specific and not a blanket all data for all users.(Example would be a lost person where police ask for location for that specific person.)  Also, I think only specific requests by POLICE(sworn officers) should be honored.

Edited June 7, 2013 by matt7701

[cletus]

Yes, Sprint gets requests but they are specific and not a blanket all data for all users.(Example would be a lost person where police ask for location for that specific person.)  Also, I think only specific requests by POLICE(sworn officers) should be honored.

Yep. However, what we are talking about is data dumped to the NSA via secret order. FBI and Law enforcement agencies issue requests usually with judge approval for this information and usually for specific information. NSA comes by and says "uh, we will take everything you got on everybody oh and you can't tell anyone" For all we know, due to the secret nature of the order, Verizon could have been doing this on a continual 30 day period for a long time.

[matt7701]

Okay, got it.  Thanks, and the thread title has been updated.

 

Folks, please use appropriate, descriptive thread titles.  Failure to do so has become a problem of late.

 

AJ

Sorry about that

[Danielj1981]

I am willing to bet that all of our "media" providers do it as well. I'm sure that if you were researching some nefarious activities on your iMac at home, that TWC, or Comcast, or whoever is doing this as well. Big brother is big brother. :-/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[WiWavelength]

Here is the problem:  people want government to keep them safe from enemies, foreign and domestic.  Yet, they also want government meticulously to respect their privacy -- even though people must acknowledge that there are enemies, foreign or domestic, among them.  That is a dichotomy.  And it is a huge challenge to the information society in which we now live.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

I tend to prefer privacy over safety, but that's the Libertarian in me.  I'm not willing to give up my rights for anything.  Not because I'm scared, or my neighbor is.  It's a debate that we refuse to have, we just yell at the government out of both sides of our mouths.  Keep me safe, at all costs, but keep out of my personal business.  These are contradictory beliefs and must be vetted.

 

Robert

[Fraydog]

"Those who choose security over liberty, deserve neither."

 

- Ben Franklin

[WiWavelength]

"Those who choose security over liberty, deserve neither."

 

- Ben Franklin

 

The veneration of the Founding Fathers goes way overboard in this country.  We have far more people with intellects equal to or exceeding those of the Founding Fathers, who lived in an entirely different world roughly three centuries ago.  So, the relevance of their oft cited philosophical musings is questionable.

 

I counter with this.  Anyone who chooses liberty over security had better embody this doggerel quote:

 

"Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the biggest badass in the valley."

 

I am increasingly intrigued by the premise of "The Purge," a film released coincidentally today.  In such a scenario, many of those who think themselves "badasses" would quickly get their comeuppance.  But the "might makes right" principle -- while seemingly the foundation of capitalism -- does not jibe with Christian religion nor secular humanism.

 

Thus, as much satisfaction as a "purge" scenario might provide, it would tend to run counter to why society has formed in the first place.

 

AJ

[nebody00]

http://www.businessinsider.com/when-can-the-government-read-your-email-2013-6

 

Any email/phonecall you make is most likely tracked by the goverment.

Edited June 8, 2013 by nebody00

[matt7701]

So... what I can see is that this will not affect subscribership more to Sprint?  Yes, I know that Sprint probably does it too(All communications are subject to recall anytime anywhere after 2001 and most people don't know that) but it is not in the news and people might just get into Sprint contracts before Sprint hits news.  There has to be some people that rage and switch carriers right?

[NiteSnow]

 

 

 

"Those who choose security over liberty, deserve neither."

 

 

- Ben Franklin

 

 

The veneration of the Founding Fathers goes way overboard in this country. We have far more people with intellects equal to or exceeding those of the Founding Fathers, who lived in an entirely different world roughly three centuries ago. So, the relevance of their oft cited philosophical musings is questionable.

 

I counter with this. Anyone who chooses liberty over security had better embody this doggerel quote:

 

"Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the biggest badass in the valley."

 

I am increasingly intrigued by the premise of "The Purge," a film released coincidentally today. In such a scenario, many of those who think themselves "badasses" would quickly get their comeuppance. But the "might makes right" principle -- while seemingly the foundation of capitalism -- does not jibe with Christian religion nor secular humanism.

 

Thus, as much satisfaction as a "purge" scenario might provide, it would tend to run counter to why society has formed in the first place.

 

AJ

 

I'm watching purge in T-2 Minutes.

 

EDIT: There are tons of Sprint advertisements at this theater/movie.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[WiWavelength]

I'm watching purge in T-2 Minutes.

 

Good, your 500 word analysis will be due by noon tomorrow.

 

AJ

[d_rail34]

The veneration of the Founding Fathers goes way overboard in this country.  We have far more people with intellects equal to or exceeding those of the Founding Fathers, who lived in an entirely different world roughly three centuries ago.  So, the relevance of their oft cited philosophical musings is questionable.

 

I agree to what you're saying to an extent...but you can't exclude the morality aspect that their principals were based on.

 

Just my opinion, so please don't draw me into a debate. You're a very witty fellow, and I'm pretty sure you'll find a way to trip me up somehow.

[Danielj1981]

“My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.” -Thomas Jefferson

 

True story.....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[Fraydog]

I wouldn't mistake the Founding Fathers with the fundamentalists of today. Read the Federalist Papers and you'll quickly understand that.

[centermedic]

While this is a troubling issue it is nothing new. While working for a baby bell back in the 80's we routinely released telephone logs to law enforcement over the phone without a warrant. Many would consider this illegal since it amounts to a warrantless search. Just to point out also that what the NSA is doing is intelligence gathering. Totally different from what a law enforcement agency must ultimately do which is to put together a case of admissible evidence. If you collect the evidence without a warrant it is normally inadmissible.

[JeffDTD]

I am neither a terrorist or spy and I dont do anything that the gov gives a rip about. If theyve been listening to me, what a boring lesson in profanity that has been.....

 

I too believe in the principle of privacy, but am a little baffled about the furor given the obvious tracking capability anyone who carries a smartphone accepts not to mention the willful social media sharing that even grandmas gotten in on.

 

Sent from my Note II. Its so big.