Qualcomm vs everybody else: chipset/baseband discussion thread

[mm2kay]

This is the start of what's coming! 

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/sprint-announces-three-tri-band-lte-mobile-broadband-devices-to/#continued

All LTE bands on board. 

Too bad, there's not a decent cellphone with the Tegra 4i chipset. 

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/nvidia-tegra-4i-soft-update-adds-lte-advanced-speeds/

[koiulpoi]

 

Too bad, there's not a decent cellphone with the Tegra 4i chipset. 

 

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/nvidia-tegra-4i-soft-update-adds-lte-advanced-speeds/

Don't hold your breath. If things go to QComm's plan, every Sprint smartphone through 2013 will be Snapdragon only.

[Fraydog]

I want to see the results on the Tegra 4i before I crown it better or as food as the Snapdragon. As much as I can't stand Qualcomm's cornering of the CDMA market through intellectual property, I must admit they're making better SoC's than NVidia at this point.

[Conan Kudo]

I want to see the results on the Tegra 4i before I crown it better or as food as the Snapdragon. As much as I can't stand Qualcomm's cornering of the CDMA market through intellectual property, I must admit they're making better SoC's than NVidia at this point.

 

The thing is, Qualcomm doesn't necessarily make the best 3GPP modems. However, because the US is really the last big bastion of CDMA (3GPP2), Qualcomm Snapdragon thrives here.

[supersanborn]

 

 

I want to see the results on the Tegra 4i before I crown it better or as food as the Snapdragon. As much as I can't stand Qualcomm's cornering of the CDMA market through intellectual property, I must admit they're making better SoC's than NVidia at this point.

 

 

The thing is, Qualcomm doesn't necessarily make the best 3GPP modems. However, because the US is really the last big bastion of CDMA (3GPP2), Qualcomm Snapdragon thrives here.

I do wish someone would unseat them already. Would be nice to see more Tegra and Exynos phones.

 

Sent from my Galaxy S3

 

 

[WiWavelength]

The thing is, Qualcomm doesn't necessarily make the best 3GPP modems. However, because the US is really the last big bastion of CDMA (3GPP2), Qualcomm Snapdragon thrives here.

 

Then, who does "make the best 3GPP modems"?

 

Since W-CDMA is basically 3GPP's spin on cdmaOne/CDMA2000, it contains a lot of Qualcomm intellectual property.  That potentially gives Qualcomm a leg up.  And my take is that if you invented something truly unique (e.g. iPhone does not count), then you should have significant advantages.  So, I have long admired Qualcomm and give it some leeway that I do not extend to other companies (e.g. VZW, AT&T, and Apple) that have dominated their markets.

 

Plus, many AT&T and T-Mobile devices have gone with a 3GPP only Snapdragon SoC.  Since they require no 3GPP2 compatibility, they could have gone with a 3GPP only, non Qualcomm solution, yet they still utilized Qualcomm.

 

AJ

[Conan Kudo]

Then, who does "make the best 3GPP modems"?

 

Since W-CDMA is basically 3GPP's spin on cdmaOne/CDMA2000, it contains a lot of Qualcomm intellectual property.  That potentially gives Qualcomm a leg up.  And my take is that if you invented something truly unique (e.g. iPhone does not count), then you should have significant advantages.  So, I have long admired Qualcomm and give it some leeway that I do not extend to other companies (e.g. VZW, AT&T, and Apple) that have dominated their markets.

 

Plus, many AT&T and T-Mobile devices have gone with a 3GPP only Snapdragon SoC.  Since they require no 3GPP2 compatibility, they could have gone with a 3GPP only, non Qualcomm solution, yet they still utilized Qualcomm.

 

AJ

 

While it does contain a lot of Qualcomm intellectual property, Qualcomm was forced to license it FRAND on the ETSI's terms. This allowed for a lot of other companies to develop 3GPP modems. Some examples of modem manufacturers: Icera (now nVidia), ST-Ericsson, Huawei, Samsung, ZTE, and Infineon (now Intel).

 

Often, the reason that AT&T and T-Mobile typically get Snapdragon models is that they are cheaper because Verizon and Sprint must get Snapdragon models. That means that the per-unit cost of Snapdragon models are lower than the non-Snapdragon ones.

 

However, this doesn't always happen. The first Galaxy S differed greatly between CDMA and GSM variants. Samsung highly favors ST-Ericsson for international models of its phones, as did Nokia before Windows Phone. ST-Ericsson sees great success in the international markets for its rather complete support of 3GPP standards. It was one of the first to support GSM, TD-SCDMA, and WCDMA in a single modem, and that was later extended to LTE, too.

 

After trying out products that have Qualcomm, ST-Ericsson, Huawei, Samsung, and Infineon modems, I've typically considered ST-Ericsson to be one of the best-in-class 3GPP modem manufacturers. Qualcomm is just below it, with Samsung below them, Infineon below them, and Huawei at the bottom. However, YMMV. My experiences will probably not be the same as others.

 

On the CDMA side, there's just Qualcomm and VIA Telecom. I don't think I have to remind people in S4GRU how bad VIA Telecom chips are. By default, that just leaves Qualcomm.

 

And A.J., I'm truly surprised that you feel that way about Qualcomm. Just because its IP was used to develop the standard doesn't mean that it is necessarily the best at using that IP. Sometimes being too close to it makes you unable to see better ways to use it. That applies to Qualcomm as much as any other person or company.

[WiWavelength]

And A.J., I'm truly surprised that you feel that way about Qualcomm. Just because its IP was used to develop the standard doesn't mean that it is necessarily the best at using that IP. Sometimes being too close to it makes you unable to see better ways to use it. That applies to Qualcomm as much as any other person or company.

 

Qualcomm's revolutionary development of IS-95 is what got me interested in airlink tech and spectrum in the first place about 15 years ago.  So, I no doubt exhibit some genetic bias.

 

AJ

[tongboy]

 

 

 

I want to see the results on the Tegra 4i before I crown it better or as food as the Snapdragon. As much as I can't stand Qualcomm's cornering of the CDMA market through intellectual property, I must admit they're making better SoC's than NVidia at this point.

 

 

The thing is, Qualcomm doesn't necessarily make the best 3GPP modems. However, because the US is really the last big bastion of CDMA (3GPP2), Qualcomm Snapdragon thrives here.

I believe Qualcomm 's advantage wasn't cdma since other chip manufacturers made SoCs with cdma for years. Qualcomm was the only one that had a competitive performance and LTE on their soc when the last generation of smartphones came out (evo and s3). I'm not sure if that is still the case.

 

I agree though, the more chip manufacturers in the us market the better we will all be

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

 

[Conan Kudo]

I believe Qualcomm 's advantage wasn't cdma since other chip manufacturers made SoCs with cdma for years. Qualcomm was the only one that had a competitive speed and LTE on their soc when the last generation of smartphones came out (evo and s3). I'm not sure if that is still the case.

 

I agree though, the more chip manufacturers in the us market the better we will all be

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

They still used Qualcomm modems. Qualcomm used that to its advantage by making the volume cost of SoC Fusion lower vs pairing Qualcomm modems with non-Qualcomm application processors.

[benifactor]

Hold on tight as we veer off topic!

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

 

[tongboy]

Hold on tight as we veer off topic!

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

 

I honestly forgot what thread I was in. Sorry :-)

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

 

 

[WiWavelength]

Hold on tight as we veer off topic!

 

Hey, Sprint never offered the HP Veer, so that is off topic.  But the Veer, while 3GPP only, did use a Qualcomm SoC.

 

AJ

[mm2kay]

Don't hold your breath. If things go to QComm's plan, every Sprint smartphone through 2013 will be Snapdragon only.

 

 

i wonder if there is nice amazing phone with the tegra 4i chipset could it be hacked to work on Sprints network by reprogramming/updating it with Sprint's freqs

[maximus1987/lou99]

i wonder if there is nice amazing phone with the tegra 4i chipset could it be hacked to work on Sprints network by reprogramming/updating it with Sprint's freqs

It does NOT support CDMA, it's not a matter of frequencies. If you know how to program the baseband (ICERA) processor to add CDMA support, go ahead.

 

 

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/116757/NVIDIA_i500_whitepaper_FINALv3.pdf

 

Neither Broadcomm's new modem nor Intel's (probably) will support CDMA.

[supersanborn]

 

i wonder if there is nice amazing phone with the tegra 4i chipset could it be hacked to work on Sprints network by reprogramming/updating it with Sprint's freqs

It does NOT support CDMA, it's not a matter of frequencies. If you know how to program the baseband (ICERA) processor to add CDMA support, go ahead.

 

 

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/116757/NVIDIA_i500_whitepaper_FINALv3.pdf

 

 

Neither Broadcomm's new modem nor Intel's (probably) will support CDMA.

I know it's not feasible anytime in the near future, but I do wish CDMA would just die already in favor of LTE and voice over LTE. One standard already, people.

 

Sent from my Galaxy S3

 

 

[digiblur]

If I could let you guys use VoLTE for one day I would bet you would want CDMA back in a heart beat.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

 

[lynyrd65]

The only tech I wish death on is iden. CDMA has coverage performance advantages over LTE you dont realize until you go to a low signal area where only 1xRTT will function.

 

I hope cdma sticks around but i am excited for the VoLTE future potentially uniting all American carriers to a single roaming footprint.

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[jefbal99]

The only tech I wish death on is iden. CDMA has coverage performance advantages over LTE you dont realize until you go to a low signal area where only 1xRTT will function.

 

I hope cdma sticks around but i am excited for the VoLTE future potentially uniting all American carriers to a single roaming footprint.

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2

Could a device be created with enough antennas/amps/etc to support 600(maybe)/700/750/800/850/1700/1900/2100/2300/2500?  Not to mention the potential of Dish 2200 LTE.  Due to the varying spectrum used, I don't think you'll ever see a device that can used used on any US carrier...

[lynyrd65]

 

 

The only tech I wish death on is iden. CDMA has coverage performance advantages over LTE you dont realize until you go to a low signal area where only 1xRTT will function.

 

 

I hope cdma sticks around but i am excited for the VoLTE future potentially uniting all American carriers to a single roaming footprint.

 

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

Could a device be created with enough antennas/amps/etc to support 600(maybe)/700/750/800/850/1700/1900/2100/2300/2500? Not to mention the potential of Dish 2200 LTE. Due to the varying spectrum used, I don't think you'll ever see a device that can used used on any US carrier...

Maybe not all of the bands but at least the mid to low bands for coverage.

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

The only tech I wish death on is iden. CDMA has coverage performance advantages over LTE you dont realize until you go to a low signal area where only 1xRTT will function.

 

I hope cdma sticks around but i am excited for the VoLTE future potentially uniting all American carriers to a single roaming footprint.

 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2

 

If CDMA were worth keeping around, Broadcom and Nvidia/Icera would've put it in their modems now. If they start work now, by the time they'll be ready, Verizon will be on the way to VoLTE and Sprint will be the only one without VoLTE. Broadcom and Icera/Nvidia are, I think, aiming for high end (Europe+NA+China) where CDMA is on the way out.

Yes, they're including China's TD-SCDMA but that's because China's 3G penetration is extremely low and their TD-SCDMA is "fast" compared to the 2G that many, many people are on (and unsaturated).

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/05/06/as-china-mobiles-earnings-flatten-more-3g-growth-needed/

[WiWavelength]

I hope cdma sticks around but i am excited for the VoLTE future potentially uniting all American carriers to a single roaming footprint.

 

LTE as a single technology?  Yes.  LTE as a single roaming footprint?  Not bloody likely -- unless the FCC mandates it.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Don't hold your breath. If things go to QComm's plan, every Sprint smartphone through 2013 will be Snapdragon only.

 

Sprint has no other top-notch choice BUT Qualcomm for CDMA+LTE.

Broadcom and nVidia currently don't have CDMA in their new modems and since Intel still doesn't have a modem to wow us with, I'm gonna say Intel's never gonna have CDMA.

 

However, if we are to believe nVidia's SDR modem-pitch, they have an infinitely flexible solution so .  . . maybe they could add CDMA? Depends how real Verizon's intent is to deploy VoLTE next year.

[koiulpoi]

Sprint has no other top-notch choice BUT Qualcomm for CDMA+LTE.

Broadcom and nVidia currently don't have CDMA in their new modems and since Intel still doesn't have a modem to wow us with, I'm gonna say Intel's never gonna have CDMA.

 

However, if we are to believe nVidia's SDR modem-pitch, they have an infinitely flexible solution so .  . . maybe they could add CDMA? Depends how real Verizon's intent is to deploy VoLTE next year.

Sure. Except, my Galaxy Note II over here has a nice Qualcomm (Gobi? (iirc?)) baseband, while the processor is Exynos 4 Quad. My post was alluding to the fact that every Sprint smartphone in 2013 will use the Snapdragon. Which, frankly, is silly; the note's Exynos works great, and doesn't suffer from battery issues, despite not having a unified SoC doing the lifting for all of CPU, GPU, and baseband radio.

[Johnner1999]

Not to mention - there is the A5, A6, and I assume to be announced A7 ;-) 

 

 

 

Sure. Except, my Galaxy Note II over here has a nice Qualcomm (Gobi? (iirc?)) baseband, while the processor is Exynos 4 Quad. My post was alluding to the fact that every Sprint smartphone in 2013 will use the Snapdragon. Which, frankly, is silly; the note's Exynos works great, and doesn't suffer from battery issues, despite not having a unified SoC doing the lifting for all of CPU, GPU, and baseband radio.