S4GRU Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 That tower must be providing backhaul for the other towers. It's daisy chaining. It's receiving backhaul via MW and passing it on to another site too. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 It's daisy chaining. It's receiving backhaul via MW and passing it on to another site too. Robert ewww that sounds not so smart....I would think that they wouldn't do it more than once like this...setting them up in a series is way too risky imho. If one in the middle or near the beginning goes down for whatever reason, then the rest of the towers down the line are SOL...Also how do they regulate the bandwidth to each tower if in a series like that? Would make it seem that first tower in the line gets the priority and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 ewww that sounds not so smart....I would think that they wouldn't do it more than once like this...setting them up in a series is way too risky imho. If one in the middle or near the beginning goes down for whatever reason, then the rest of the towers down the line are SOL...Also how do they regulate the bandwidth to each tower if in a series like that? Would make it seem that first tower in the line gets the priority and all... It's not a big deal at all. But you can "repeat" only so many times before you affect performance. It is done all the time. I am writing an article on it soon. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 It's not a big deal at all. But you can "repeat" only so many times before you affect performance. It is done all the time. I am writing an article on it soon. Robert Yeah, BUT whats the backup for the towers not near the front of the line? i mean its not real smart imho to leave the possibility of having 1 little device able to take out others in other areas... interested in the article though, to see how they effectively evenly distribute the backhaul to all the towers in that series. This will work for now but in future they will have to get each tower its own line or at least only a few linked in a series line...Microwave has its limits on bandwidth.... dunno why but I just envision Sprint running a giant 20-50 tower series link doing this just testing the absolute max they can push it...If you stretch 1 Microwave long enough though you could have the bandwidth split up to be back down to the bundled T1 level... ill try and wait till the article before I think negatively on it much more...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yeah, BUT whats the backup for the towers not near the front of the line? i mean its not real smart imho to leave the possibility of having 1 little device able to take out others in other areas... interested in the article though, to see how they effectively evenly distribute the backhaul to all the towers in that series. This will work for now but in future they will have to get each tower its own line or at least only a few linked in a series line...Microwave has its limits on bandwidth.... dunno why but I just envision Sprint running a giant 20-50 tower series link doing this just testing the absolute max they can push it...If you stretch 1 Microwave long enough though you could have the bandwidth split up to be back down to the bundled T1 level... ill try and wait till the article before I think negatively on it much more...lol Is it smart to delay LTE by a couple of years and spend billions more trying to do an all fiber backhaul? Also, a single line of fiber that's not redundant is not bullet proof. Fiber lines get cut all the time. And it's easier and faster to repair microwave. It's sixes IMO. And when you consider the cost and schedule to go with MW, it's a no brainer. Modern MW is so fast and so scalable. Also, you can build MW in a redundant loop to improve reliability, It doesn't have to have a terminal end. Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Is it smart to delay LTE by a couple of years and spend billions more trying to do an all fiber backhaul? Also, a single line of fiber that's not redundant is not bullet proof. Fiber lines get cut all the time. And it's easier and faster to repair microwave. It's sixes IMO. And when you consider the cost and schedule to go with MW, it's a no brainer. Modern MW is so fast and so scalable. Also, you can build MW in a redundant loop to improve reliability, It doesn't have to have a terminal end. Robert Yeah I wasn't really meaning replace it with fiber but microwave to the base which I guess is not possible sometimes...nice to know loop is possible and being done when so though. I guess in these areas after time they will end up having to upgrade microwave radomes if tech advances to increase bandwidth handle, OR end up coughing up for fiber...hopefully by that time there become more direct locations to connect some of the towers microwave to so not in loop. Again I was thinking worst case here, given sprint track record... You have an idea how many are being linked by chance, like longest link of towers or avg #? Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yeah I wasn't really meaning replace it with fiber but microwave to the base which I guess is not possible sometimes...nice to know loop is possible and being done when so though. I guess in these areas after time they will end up having to upgrade microwave radomes if tech advances to increase bandwidth handle, OR end up coughing up for fiber...hopefully by that time there become more direct locations to connect some of the towers microwave to so not in loop. Again I was thinking worst case here, given sprint track record... You have an idea how many are being linked by chance, like longest link of towers or avg #? Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk Typically, you wouldn't want to do more than 3 or 4 in a terminal end application with links being greater than 5-6 miles in between each. Although links of 10mi can be supported. If you were doing a loop, you could do 7 or 8. There are even newer and better improvements in MW than can support even greater distances. However, they are pretty new to market. And I'm not sure if Sprint backhaul providers are already up to speed and deploying these. Sprint is using fiber backhaul where it can. Where it is easily accessible and affordable. And supposedly, the Southern Connecticut market has no microwave at all. Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Typically, you wouldn't want to do more than 3 or 4 in a terminal end application with links being greater than 5-6 miles in between each. Although links of 10mi can be supported. If you were doing a loop, you could do 7 or 8. There are even newer and better improvements in MW than can support even greater distances. However, they are pretty new to market. And I'm not sure if Sprint backhaul providers are already up to speed and deploying these. Sprint is using fiber backhaul where it can. Where it is easily accessible and affordable. And supposedly, the Southern Connecticut market has no microwave at all. Robert nice thats a lot better than I expected...I just envisioned them doing a giant string of 30-40 towers just to cut costs down and all. lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffman Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Talked to a gent today that works for a company that makes radomes. He said they run, like, 39 GHz. Must be able to carry quite a bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Talked to a gent today that works for a company that makes radomes. He said they run, like, 39 GHz. Must be able to carry quite a bit. Yeah in the Backhaul thread I linked an paper where it stated they currently can carry several GB's of capacity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A454nova Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thought I'd post this out here where all can see my findings. I also updated it with new pics and info I got from the guys putting in ATT's Stuff. MY PICTURES HERE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digiblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Talked to a gent today that works for a company that makes radomes. He said they run, like, 39 GHz. Must be able to carry quite a bit. 39ghz doesn't give it the ability to carry more data. All depends on the width of the channel and the modulation scheme they can pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffman Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 39ghz doesn't give it the ability to carry more data. All depends on the width of the channel and the modulation scheme they can pull off. I figured I sounded like a noob with that post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I figured I sounded like a noob with that post... haha well b/w digiblur, pyroscott, Robert, and WiWavelength here on the site, personally I tend to phrase anything tower related in a question. lol 99.999% of the time they know 10000% the correct answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 haha well b/w digiblur' date=' pyroscott, Robert, and WiWavelength here on the site, personally I tend to phrase anything tower related in a question. lol 99.999% of the time they know 10000% the correct answer. [/quote'] And I ask you questions about devices and chips. So, it's all good. Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Slaughter Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 And I ask you questions about devices and chips. So, it's all good. Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner Agreed Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffman Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I guess you can ask me questions about.... uh, never mind. I got nothing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroscott Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 And I ask you questions about devices and chips. So, it's all good. Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner I second that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTE Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Here's one of my local towers. I've always thought that the top rack was just iDEN, but was just recently told that CDMA is on this tower as well. I believe that the lower setup is Clear's WiMax. Every WiMax site in my area has those little microwave radomes pointing at another clear site, and eventually they lead back to bigger dishes. Too bad Sprint isn't using that backhaul yet... Clear gives me 8-10Mbps consistently when I'm in range. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digiblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Nice and clear pic! Yep, that looks like clear at the bottom. Looks like one of those synergy sites where they removed a nextel panel and put in a 1900 panel for cdma. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digiblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Another thing to notice is look at the downtilt between the two panel types. Shows the propagation differences there. If NV has a combined 800/1900 panel, hmm...they won't be able to control the downtilt separately between the two bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroscott Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Another thing to notice is look at the downtilt between the two panel types. Shows the propagation differences there. If NV has a combined 800/1900 panel, hmm...they won't be able to control the downtilt separately between the two bands. I was wondering about that. Seemed wierd to me that the darker ones would be such a vast difference and the lighter ones are virtually no downtilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigzeto Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I'm still amazed at how clear that pic is. Nice job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Nice and clear pic! Yep, that looks like clear at the bottom. Looks like one of those synergy sites where they removed a nextel panel and put in a 1900 panel for cdma. Another thing to notice is look at the downtilt between the two panel types. Shows the propagation differences there. If NV has a combined 800/1900 panel, hmm...they won't be able to control the downtilt separately between the two bands. I was wondering about that. Seemed wierd to me that the darker ones would be such a vast difference and the lighter ones are virtually no downtilt. 800 needs much more downtilt in an urban area because of increased propagation. And on to digi's question, I'm thinking that in a combined 800/1900 NV panel, there will have to be electronic downtilt that handles the difference. Mechanical downtilt will not be able to be different, as you point out. I'm still amazed at how clear that pic is. Nice job. LTE...what kind of camera was that taken with? I have never had such a clear zoomed panel close up. Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroscott Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 It sure is a clear pic. I want a camera like that. (Please don't say iPhone 4S!) LOL It looks like you were on a lift right next to the panel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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