T-Mobile iPhone 5

[xenadu]

You might have a point about Apple trying to make people buy new devices, except Apple is the only OEM who regularly updates their old phones. Look at how long they've provided software updates for the 3GS. That thing came out in 2009 but still got iOS 6 in 2012. How many other vendors are shipping their latest OS for a 3-4 year old phone? (Hint: none). Half of all Android devices are still on freakin Gingerbread!

 

Apple explicitly holds back some revenue recognition on their devices to apply toward future updates (because they can then offset salaries as R&D expenses). You don't do that unless you plan to support your devices for a long time. If they just wanted to force people to upgrade, they could simply stop providing updates after a year. That would generate far, far more "forced" device sales than the few people who are going to jump from AT&T to Tmobile with an unlocked device.

 

 

I don't know what the change is or why. Has anyone checked the FCC filings to see if they had to submit any updates? Maybe there is a minor hardware tweak. Maybe they have to pay Qualcomm extra royalties so it would cost millions to enable it on the previously shipped devices... Maybe they asked Tmobile to pay for the recertification and they declined? Maybe it was a favor to AT&T. Maybe they had to swap an amplifier chip but otherwise kept the same hardware design? No one knows the answer right now. When iFixit does a teardown then we'll get to see if there are any obvious hardware differences.

 

 

Apple's track record of device support is ample reason to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

[MagnusOchncap]

3) So AWS is disabled for W-CDMA, but does the original A1248 support T-Mobile LTE? Yes? No? We don't know?

 

Shawn, yes, the original GSM A1248 supports LTE on the AWS band. I believe all of the Canadian LTE networks are on the AWS band, and iPhone 5 has been running LTE up there since release. :-)

 

http://www.imore.com/iphone-5-splits-two-models-one-us-gsmlte-another-cdmalte-and-everybody-else

[xenadu]

OK, I actually looked this up and it appears the newer A1428 is just a firmware change, the FCC filing says its the same hardware, so the amps, etc aren't changing. It also appears the only change is enabling WCDMA (HSPA) on AWS; LTE was already enabled.

 

So I have to think this is a result of QualComm royalties and Apple doesn't want to pay for all the existing handsets with a new iPhone just around the corner.

 

I also saw someone saying the Tmobile update will allow that iPhone to work on more Canadian carriers, but I don't know if that is true.

[WiWavelength]

So I have to think this is a result of QualComm royalties and Apple doesn't want to pay for all the existing handsets with a new iPhone just around the corner.

 

Qualcomm royalties have nothing to do with it. OEMs purchase parts from Qualcomm (or other vendors), and any/all royalties are already built in to the prices paid for those parts. You really seem to be stretching and contorting to avoid placing blame where it lies with your beloved Apple and with AT&T, Apple's partner in crime. Apple and AT&T conspired to keep the iPhone as incompatible as possible with T-Mobile until T-Mobile yielded and agreed to offer the iPhone itself.

 

AJ

[xenadu]

Qualcomm royalties have nothing to do with it. OEMs purchase parts from Qualcomm (or other vendors), and any/all royalties are already built in to the prices paid for those parts. You really seem to be stretching and contorting to avoid placing blame where it lies with your beloved Apple and with AT&T, Apple's partner in crime. Apple and AT&T conspired to keep the iPhone as incompatible as possible with T-Mobile until T-Mobile yielded and agreed to offer the iPhone itself.

 

AJ

 

That's flatly not true though; Apple pays more for the same chip on the CDMA-enabled model because the CDMA feature is enabled. I thought this was well-known? Intel does something similar... An 8-core chip with two defective cores is marked down to be a four-core chip and the two excess cores are disabled in microcode. Once the production process improves, defects drop, almost all the 4-core chips are 7 or 8 core chips with cores disabled. It's cheaper to make one part then charge based on the usage.

 

 

I'm not saying it wasn't a business decision at the time, but now that the deal is done the number of people bringing a new (under contract) iPhone 5 to Tmobile will be so small as to be a rounding error. There is zero chance Apple gives that much of a shit.

 

[MacinJosh]

Qualcomm royalties have nothing to do with it. OEMs purchase parts from Qualcomm (or other vendors), and any/all royalties are already built in to the prices paid for those parts. You really seem to be stretching and contorting to avoid placing blame where it lies with your beloved Apple and with AT&T, Apple's partner in crime. Apple and AT&T conspired to keep the iPhone as incompatible as possible with T-Mobile until T-Mobile yielded and agreed to offer the iPhone itself.

 

AJ

 

Frankly, I have to join you with your stand that at&t has something to do with this. at&t is the worst when it comes to trying to punish T-Mobile in hopes of destroying them since they can't acquire them. I just hope they aren't successful. If T-Mobile is ultimately acquired, it's a much better fate than bankruptcy. But at&t has too much pull with Apple being the first carrier with the iPhone, there is no doubt on that.

[WiWavelength]

That's flatly not true though; Apple pays more for the same chip on the CDMA-enabled model because the CDMA feature is enabled. I thought this was well-known?

 

Yes, all iPhone 5 variants use the same Qualcomm MDM9615 baseband, which supports all 3GPP and 3GPP2 airlinks.

 

Now, you need to produce some documentation that Apple pays more for the same chipset but with 3GPP2 (CDMA2000) airlinks activated. Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of bunk, as airlink and band capabilities can easily be added/subtracted after the fact via firmware. The binning of processor cores/chips is not a particularly relevant parallel.

 

But if you can muster some support to the contrary, you would further your case. And I would be willing to stand corrected. However, you still would lack evidence, as both LTE and W-CDMA are 3GPP airlinks. Thus, you would need to show that Qualcomm can somehow bill vendors and/or buyers down the road for using capabilities that are already built in to the baseband.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

If T-Mobile is ultimately acquired, it's a much better fate than bankruptcy.

 

T-Mobile will not go bankrupt. Too many people misunderstand bankruptcy, think it the same as financial difficulty. But bankruptcy is reserved for those individuals and companies that cannot pay off their debts. T-Mobile, on the other hand, has billions of dollars in revenue and billions of dollars in assets that it can use to pay down any debts. T-Mobile is in no danger of bankruptcy.

 

AJ

[kory108]

It appears T-Mobile will be pushing out a sofware baseband update that will enable current unlocked AT&T iPhones to connect to the new T-Mobile LTE network. The update will also enable MMS and visual voicemail for these phones.

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/02/t-mobile-to-release-software-update-with-lte-and-visual-voicemail-support-for-unlocked-iphones-on-april-5/

 

It does not appear this update will add support for the HSPA+ variant T-Mobile utilizes.

[nobius]

So much for all that angst.

[WiWavelength]

So much for all that angst.

 

There is still angst, as Apple is still withholding band 4 W-CDMA 2100+1700 from the update.

 

AJ

[nobius]

There is still angst, as Apple is still withholding band 4 W-CDMA 2100+1700 from the update.

 

Ok.

 

The update is out now. Looks like those that had an unlocked AT&T iPhone 5 will be able to function well on T-Mobile.

 

Considering that one of the reasons I switched from T-Mobile to Sprint last year was TMo's poor software upgrades on Android phones, I'm surprised that T-Mobile is doing this much.

[WiWavelength]

Ok.

 

The update is out now. Looks like those that had an unlocked AT&T iPhone 5 will be able to function well on T-Mobile.

 

Uh, no. The update still does not allow AWS W-CDMA 2100+1700.

 

Are you under the mistaken impression that T-Mobile's PCS W-CDMA 1900 refarming effort is even remotely close to finished? It is not and will not be for another year or two.

 

AJ

[nobius]

Uh, no. The update still does not allow AWS W-CDMA 2100+1700.

 

Are you under the mistaken impression that T-Mobile's PCS W-CDMA 1900 refarming effort is even remotely close to finished? It is not and will not be for another year or two.

 

Are you under the mistaken impression that a lot of people are affected by this? T-Mobile has said there are 2M iPhone users total. iPhone 5 users will be a minuscule part of that considering the iP5 has been out less than a year, and any unlocked users would have had to pay $599+ to get one.

 

Those few unlocked users, which have been dealing with being on slower speeds, now get LTE in seven large markets as well. If they're not in those markets, they at least now have visual voicemail, no more manually configuring APN settings for MMS, a 4G indicator, and more. And if the-few-the-proud unlocked AT&T users are truly bothered by this, they can easily sell their unlocked iPhone (at a profit in many cases) and buy an official T-Mobile unlocked version for $20 less than the AT&T one.

 

T-Mobile could have easily not bothered with pushing out any update at all. They've certainly done that before with Android users.

[WiWavelength]

For those who know the facts about T-Mobile's Network Modernization, your "an unlocked AT&T iPhone 5 will be able to function well on T-Mobile" comment was a stretch. And, as valuable contributor to S4GRU, I did not appreciate your "rolls eyes" emoticon.

 

AJ

[Fraydog]

Look at airportal.de.

 

T-Mobile still has a gigantic number of sites to convert. Airportal has only picked up 5500 sites or so. Unfortunately there's no T4GRU to determine the actual number.