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Hate to resurrect an old thread here but I am on a mad hunt to understand Sprints backhaul situation.

 

The tower here was just recently upgraded with NV equipment but the data speeds are horrendously slow. In fact even slower then they were before. We were getting around 100 - 120kbps and now only 10 - 30kbps.. slower then dial up This is specially a problem for me since we use some ( 30 or so ) Sprint data cards at work and I work in IT. I get 30 people complaining to me.

 

SO.. I live in a rather rural area in Maryland.. Zip 21629. The Sprint tower is right outside our HQ building.. the tower actually has the same address as our building. The speeds from this tower have been getting slower and slower. A year ago we could pull down 1 - 1.5mbit, was is actually faster then our VZW equipment (VZW shares the same tower). We would get 600 - 800kbps through VZW.

 

For the last year however speeds via Sprint have been dropping dramatically to their low now of what I said.. 10kbps at times. I always blamed this, in my mind, on copper to the tower site being poor/over loaded. I know for a fact its a huge hassle trying to order t1's for our substations etc. In fact a T1 is the only thing available.. no T3's etc.

 

BUT.. then a few months ago VZW lit up LTE on this tower outside.. and I can regularly pull 16, 18, even 20mbit via VZW LTE equipment. So that blows my T1 theory out of the water. There is no microwave structures on this tower.. so how is VZW able to get those speeds? Why is Sprints equipment crawling from the same physical location?

 

When I start looking back at our helpdesk requests I find a pattern. The Sprint network started getting slower as VZW deployed more LTE sites on the shore here. Is big red perhaps prioritizing traffic to VZW sites?

 

Bottom line is I love Sprint.. and I really want to use them as our provider So far we have switched 30 or so data cards from VZW to Sprint out of 130 cards or so total.. but of course now I have hit a brick wall with these slow data speeds and we are actually going BACK to VZW to take advantage of LTE.

 

I have opened several trouble tickets with sprint and they are all promptly closed stating.. "A technician has verified the state of the cell site and everything it working as designed".

 

I guess I am on my own with this one... Just wanting some answers.

 

Thanks

-Matt

 

Verizons backhaul resources are completely independent of Sprints and has no impact. Verizon is likely using direct fiber or maybe AAV to support their LTE upgrades. Sprint is using T1 to support their legacy sites.

 

Sprint Network Vision sites are backhauled via Microwave, AAV or direct fiber. However, not always is the new backhaul ready when NV crews do the conversion. When this occurs, they will sometimes reconnect the 3G back to legacy T1 backhaul awaiting completion of the new NV backhaul.

 

You will know when the NV backhaul is live, because 3G will shoot up between 1-2.65Mbps. Also, once the 4G LTE is live, you know the new backhaul is ready. Because they only hook up LTE to new backhaul.

 

Robert via Samsung Note II via Tapatalk

 

 

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Ok so when 4G LTE is done at a tower it implies the new backhaul must be in.

 

What explains download speeds of less than 1 mbps when connected to 4G LTE to a tower deemed 4G complete on the weekly update and with a RSRP signal of -97 dBm (so not a weak signal issue) ?

 

Thanks.

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Ok so when 4G LTE is done at a tower it implies the new backhaul must be in.

 

What explains download speeds of less than 1 mbps when connected to 4G LTE to a tower deemed 4G complete on the weekly update and with a RSRP signal of -97 dBm (so not a weak signal issue) ?

 

Thanks.

 

When 4G is live new backhaul is in place but 3G may not be hooked up to it as is common in Ericsson markets.

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Matt, I'm sure Verizon was able to run fiber to that site somehow, that's the only way to run LTE.

 

Did you see if your local site is on the map for upgrade?

 

The tower is completely surrounded by our property on all sides. Unless they had a peice of dark fiber to the tower which predated me being here, 10 years, they didnt trench anything new to the tower. It is entirely possible that they did have dark fiber to the tower for that long.. I am not ruleing that out.

 

There was very little activity at the site at all.. one day there was an Ericsson tech there, the next VZW LTE was lit up. A week later there was a team out there installing the NV equipment for Sprint.. then an Alcatel truck.. then that was it for Sprint. The only differents is I can now pull down 20+ mbits on my VZW equipment and only 0.09 or less mbits on my Sprint equipment.

 

Sprint says the site (and surrounding sites) all had a speed increase within the last 6 months. Our site was the last to be done though it is the ONLY one of the sites to have NV equipment installed. It is also the oldest of all the surrounding sites.

 

Verizons backhaul resources are completely independent of Sprints and has no impact. Verizon is likely using direct fiber or maybe AAV to support their LTE upgrades. Sprint is using T1 to support their legacy sites.

 

Sprint Network Vision sites are backhauled via Microwave, AAV or direct fiber. However, not always is the new backhaul ready when NV crews do the conversion. When this occurs, they will sometimes reconnect the 3G back to legacy T1 backhaul awaiting completion of the new NV backhaul.

 

You will know when the NV backhaul is live, because 3G will shoot up between 1-2.65Mbps. Also, once the 4G LTE is live, you know the new backhaul is ready. Because they only hook up LTE to new backhaul.

 

Robert via Samsung Note II via Tapatalk

 

I know that both VZW and Sprint were using T1 backhauls to this site.. because when we have trouble (quite frequently I might add) with our Verizon t1 lines ( 9 of them ) the tower will sometimes go down as well, VZW and Sprint at the same time.

 

I had often wondered what type of backhaul VZW or Sprint would use to upgrade this site.. we (Choptank Electric Coop) can not get anything over a t1 at this location or many of our district offices and substations throughout the eastern shore of MD. In fact we are still using frame relay in some places. So what VZW is using at this site is still a bit of a mystery seeing as how we have been asking for anything better then a t1 for years now.

 

The only other carrier would be Comcast.. we do have a comcast business connection here for internet.. but even that is still copper as they dont have fiber in this area either.

 

Like I mentioned before, a year ago we could pull down 1.5mbit via Sprint no problem.. Then something happened and it has gotten slower and slower and slower to the point that its not even usable at all now.

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Ok so when 4G LTE is done at a tower it implies the new backhaul must be in.

 

What explains download speeds of less than 1 mbps when connected to 4G LTE to a tower deemed 4G complete on the weekly update and with a RSRP signal of -97 dBm (so not a weak signal issue) ?

 

Thanks.

 

The site is probably still in testing and tweaking. If it is in Miami, the market hasn't launched, so they are still trying to get all the sites properly set up. There has been many reports of major differences in speeds coming off a site that are vastly different days or weeks apart. One day a member sees 27Mbps and the next it has dropped to 1Mbps from the same spot. Luckily, Sprint is allowing connections in the interim instead of the way Verizon does it. Don't tell anyone you are working in an area and block access until it is done, tested and complete. If that was the case, there would likely be zero reports of LTE.

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What is the typical backhaul connection to an new NV cell site? 10, 50, 100 or 1000 mbps??? And do they VLAN /QOS speeds for both CDMA and LTE?? or both technologies just use whatever amount of bandwidth is available?

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What is the typical backhaul connection to an new NV cell site? 10, 50, 100 or 1000 mbps??? And do they VLAN /QOS speeds for both CDMA and LTE?? or both technologies just use whatever amount of bandwidth is available?

 

It is highly variable based on availability in a location. Contracts require the initial backhaul deployed to be scalable. It is in the ballpark of 250Mbps on average, but can be as little as 50Mbps in low usage rural areas. The backhaul providers need to be able to add capacity at Sprint's request in the future when asked. They share the bandwidth of the new backhaul. However, I don't know if there is a QOS priority. If so, I'd guess voice takes priority.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 on Tapatalk

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Well I heard back from spint on the problem with this NV tower. Mind you it took 5 trouble tickets to get to this point. I can only assume you are correct S4GRU and the new backhaul is not in place yet. I am curious as to what their backhaul options are.

 

Company Name: CHOPTANK ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE

Sprint CTMS Ticket#: 19356068-121113

Problem Location: 10384 River Road, Denton, MD

Issue Reported: Mobile Broadband Card, Slow Data

 

The serving cell site for your trouble ticket has been deemed to be capacity related and is being analyzed for the specific capacity relief needed, as well as a specific estimated date of completion. Someone from the capacity ticket management group will contact you soon to provide some additional information.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please contact us at the number listed below so that we can answer any potential questions/ concerns you may have.

Edited by spdweb.net
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If there are no high speed internet options in the area, they will use microwave to bridge to a place where they can get it.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 on Tapatalk

 

 

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I was thinking the same thing, Verizon could have used microwave for backhaul, so perhaps Sprint may do the same.

 

There are a number of sites in TX slated for MW backhaul. We know that AlcaLu has a MW solution as well, and I suppose Samsung does too. So while fiber is the preferred backhaul method for sites (AAV primarily), MW is used as well.

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There are a number of sites in TX slated for MW backhaul. We know that AlcaLu has a MW solution as well, and I suppose Samsung does too. So while fiber is the preferred backhaul method for sites (AAV primarily), MW is used as well.

 

The number of microwave sites is really minimal compared to the rest though....

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Where does the fiber come from? Is it already wired under towns/neighborhoods/etc.?

 

Whenever I've seen Fiber run, it is an extension from an existing fiber ring from a local telecommunications company. Could be underground or on utility poles.

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Where does the fiber come from? Is it already wired under towns/neighborhoods/etc.?

 

There's a lot of fiber out there installed during the late 90s/ early 2ks before the dot com boom. I believe they're called dark fiber and a lot of companies bought them on the go for cheap or they're just siting around waiting to be used. There's probably a hell of a lot of fiber in places you don't imagine would be possible but it's just sitting there doing nothing [for now].

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Not saying that Sprint is using this company, but check out Zayo's metro fiber foot print. http://www.zayo.com/interactive-network-map

 

The site even shows where some Wireless MSCs are that are hooked up to Zayo.

Interesting that the blue lines lead directly to a Sprint site...

y9emy8a6.jpg

 

Sent from a phone using an application. That's pretty cool.

 

 

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There's a lot of fiber out there installed during the late 90s/ early 2ks before the dot com boom. I believe they're called dark fiber and a lot of companies bought them on the go for cheap or they're just siting around waiting to be used. There's probably a hell of a lot of fiber in places you don't imagine would be possible but it's just sitting there doing nothing [for now].

 

One of the issues of Dark Fiber as it is called is that the companies that own them, or operated them are no longer in existence. Trying to find the owners of the fiber may also prove hard since the company doesnt exist, records of where the fiber is, how much of it, or exactly who has claimed it since are gone. Also, for a company not in existence to attempt to sell the fiber would open a new whirlwind. Ive had brief conversations with the CEO of Sonic.net - a company who is laying new fiber and asked him about Dark Fiber and he mentioned in so many words what I say above, when I asked him "Why dont you just claim the dark fiber".

 

So even though it is laid out, most of the entities that laid them are long gone, and trying to find out how you can have access to their property (technically and legally it still belongs to the defunct entity), is almost like trying to find a single needle in an entire state full of hay.

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One of the issues of Dark Fiber as it is called is that the companies that own them, or operated them are no longer in existence. Trying to find the owners of the fiber may also prove hard since the company doesnt exist, records of where the fiber is, how much of it, or exactly who has claimed it since are gone. Also, for a company not in existence to attempt to sell the fiber would open a new whirlwind. Ive had brief conversations with the CEO of Sonic.net - a company who is laying new fiber and asked him about Dark Fiber and he mentioned in so many words what I say above, when I asked him "Why dont you just claim the dark fiber".

 

So even though it is laid out, most of the entities that laid them are long gone, and trying to find out how you can have access to their property (technically and legally it still belongs to the defunct entity), is almost like trying to find a single needle in an entire state full of hay.

 

 

So, everyone, by all means, go out to your backyards and dig holes everywhere and then lay claim to any and all fiber you see /SARCASM

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So, everyone, by all means, go out to your backyards and dig holes everywhere and then lay claim to any and all fiber you see /SARCASM

 

I put a shovel through a line when I built my garage, but it was copper not fiber... Guess no DSL for me...

 

 

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I put a shovel through a line when I built my garage, but it was copper not fiber... Guess no DSL for me...

 

but of course... I thought I struck texas gold and it ended.up being a sewage line

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...fiber easement...

 

That sounds like a constipation remedy.

 

:P

 

AJ

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