T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[EvanA]

So the promise of EDGE to LTE isn't really as straight forward as the magenta-ites think it is? 

 

Just so I understand, because I want to make sure I am not confused, if a person is in a T-Mobile EDGE location, regardless of AWS or 700a availability, if there is sufficient spectrum, the site will get upgraded to at least 5mhz LTE, and the remainder will be left for voice? Is T-Mobile doing 5x5 PCS LTE, or larger in those areas? If there is not sufficient spectrum, no work will be done till a full (NV style) build out is planned? 

 

Right now I believe T-Mobile has LTE on AWS, at the expense of HSPA+ right? What is their deployment breakdown on their spectrum holdings? 

Where 700MHz is available T-Mobile is doing full build conversions instead of using a GMO.  An upgraded GMO site will get at least a 5MHz FDD LTE carrier and a 5MHz FDD GSM voice carrier.  T-Mobile does not have any areas where they don't have enough spectrum to do that to my knowledge.

[Volaris]

Just so I understand, because I want to make sure I am not confused, if a person is in a T-Mobile EDGE location, regardless of AWS or 700a availability, if there is sufficient spectrum, the site will get upgraded to at least 5mhz LTE, and the remainder will be left for voice?

Correct. 5x5 and 10x10 PCS LTE seem common in these 2G + LTE sites.

Is T-Mobile doing 5x5 PCS LTE, or larger in those areas?

That depends on spectrum and bandwidth availability. On HoFo I've seen 5x5 and 10x10 PCS LTE.

If there is not sufficient spectrum, no work will be done till a full (NV style) build out is planned? 

This is really rare (we're talking about PCS spectrum... there's tons of it) but yes, that would have to be the case.

Right now I believe T-Mobile has LTE on AWS, at the expense of HSPA+ right?

PCS LTE is pretty widespread in rural areas/highways now. 

 

Back when they launched LTE, they shifted part of their HSPA+ network to PCS. This was a double positive, as it made more space for LTE on AWS and allowed AT&T and international phones to access 3G/4G HSPA+ on 1900MHz.

 

In most (all?) markets they still have a 5x5 HSPA+ carrier. Once that gets shut off or shifted to PCS, they'll have more capacity for LTE in markets without 20x20 LTE already (max of 150Mbps without carrier aggregation).

What is their deployment breakdown on their spectrum holdings? 

T-Mobile's spectrum holdings, like AT&T's, vary wildly by market/county. In some they might have a small 20MHz of PCS and AWS, in others they may have over 60MHz of PCS or AWS. T-Mobile was formed largely via many mergers. But in general
 

1900MHz - 2G GSM/EDGE, and 5x5 HSPA+ (21Mbps) or 10x10 HSPA+ (42Mbps) 3G

1700MHz/AWS - 5x5 HSPA+ (21Mbps) and LTE (5x5 [37Mbps], 10x10 [75Mbps], 15x15 [110Mbps], or 20x20 [150Mbps])

700MHz - LTE 5x5 (37Mbps) in areas they've acquired spectrum and deployed.

 

In areas with both 700MHz and 1700MHz/AWS LTE deployed, they're starting to activate Carrier Aggregation which combines the download throughput. They've stated they will also deploy PCS LTE in cities as needed/available.

[Deval]

 

Correct. 5x5 and 10x10 PCS LTE seem common in these 2G + LTE sites.

That depends on spectrum and bandwidth availability. On HoFo I've seen 5x5 and 10x10 PCS LTE.

This is really rare (we're talking about PCS spectrum... there's tons of it) but yes, that would have to be the case.

PCS LTE is pretty widespread in rural areas/highways now. 

 

Back when they launched LTE, they shifted part of their HSPA+ network to PCS. This was a double positive, as it made more space for LTE on AWS and allowed AT&T and international phones to access 3G/4G HSPA+ on 1900MHz.

 

In most (all?) markets they still have a 5x5 HSPA+ carrier. Once that gets shut off or shifted to PCS, they'll have more capacity for LTE in markets without 20x20 LTE already (max of 150Mbps without carrier aggregation).

T-Mobile's spectrum holdings, like AT&T's, vary wildly by market/county. In some they might have a small 20MHz of PCS and AWS, in others they may have over 60MHz of PCS or AWS. T-Mobile was formed largely via many mergers. But in general

 

1900MHz - 2G GSM/EDGE, and 5x5 HSPA+ (21Mbps) or 10x10 HSPA+ (42Mbps) 3G

1700MHz/AWS - 5x5 HSPA+ (21Mbps) and LTE (5x5 [37Mbps], 10x10 [75Mbps], 15x15 [110Mbps], or 20x20 [150Mbps])

700MHz - LTE 5x5 (37Mbps) in areas they've acquired spectrum and deployed.

 

In areas with both 700MHz and 1700MHz/AWS LTE deployed, they're starting to activate Carrier Aggregation which combines the download throughput. They've stated they will also deploy PCS LTE in cities as needed/available.

 

 

Thank you for this detailed response, helps immensely.  

[lou99/maximus1987]

It'll be interesting to see if tmo has any gmo lte left end of this year.

[Deval]

It'll be interesting to see if tmo has any gmo lte left end of this year.

 

Unless they are going back to upgrade the sites, why would you say that?

 

Aren't they doing GMO LTE upgrades right now for the EDGE->LTE conversion? 

[lou99/maximus1987]

Unless they are going back to upgrade the sites, why would you say that?

 

Aren't they doing GMO LTE upgrades right now for the EDGE->LTE conversion?

I'm assuming they will be going back.

 

 

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[reedacus25]

I'm assuming they will be going back.

 

 

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They should/will be going back but I doubt that it will be in 2015.

 

Main efforts will go towards Band 2 (GMO) rollout with main goals of mid-year for substantial completion.

 

2H of the year will focus on tying up loose ends on the GMO overlay, and deploying in virgin territory with greenfield deployment. I expect greenfield deployments to be full "modernized" (NV-like) builds.

 

After substantial footprint increase, then we will likely see some focus diverted back to full modernization of the GMO sites.

[Terrell352]

http://www.slashgear.com/new-lte-study-shows-t-mobile-is-the-best-overall-carrier-for-data-in-us-12373406/

[Paynefanbro]

They're missing the word "speeds" in the title.

 

Additionally, I prefer RootMetric's testing method anyway since it gives us a greater breakdown and tests on a market by market basis. That's not to invalidate these results, but when you have one site saying Sprint time on LTE going up to 80%+ in many markets and then another site saying Sprint devices were only on LTE 59%, one of them has to be wrong and I'm doubtful it's RootMetrics because we can confirm Sprint's performance on LTE being equal to RootMetrics's reports.

 

I know I almost never drop to 3G so the 59% number is iffy in my experience.

[NYC126]

Don't count on Sprint to be as fast or faster than the competition until late 2016.

[joshnys8913]

Don't count on Sprint to be as fast or faster than the competition until late 2016.

how do you seem to know this? Sprint has fast LTE its called spark, and spark where its available ive gotten almost 60 down and 20 up on Spark before no problem. Also Sprints 1900 LTE is fast 35 down and 9 up is what I get all the time, its plenty fast for normal users. 

[joshnys8913]

Unless they are going back to upgrade the sites, why would you say that?

 

Aren't they doing GMO LTE upgrades right now for the EDGE->LTE conversion? 

probably, lol

[NYC126]

how do you seem to know this? Sprint has fast LTE its called spark, and spark where its available ive gotten almost 60 down and 20 up on Spark before no problem. Also Sprints 1900 LTE is fast 35 down and 9 up is what I get all the time, its plenty fast for normal users.

 

Sprint has the capabilities of being faster than the competition, but due to the fact many sites still lacking fiber backhaul, a network that is not dense enough (yet), and many of the 8T8R 2.5gz towers that backhaul is not upgraded yet. Because of what I mentioned I don't see them getting into the whole faster network until late next year.

[joshnys8913]

Sprint has the capabilities of being faster than the competition, but due to the fact many sites still lacking fiber backhaul, a network that is not dense enough (yet), and many of the 8T8R 2.5gz towers that backhaul is not upgraded yet. Because of what I mentioned I don't see them getting into the whole faster network until late next year.

I can agree on the 2.5 part but the 1900 is getting a lot of attention and is not bad,

[derrph]

I can agree on the 2.5 part but the 1900 is getting a lot of attention and is not bad,

Maybe I'm just far out of the loop as of recently about the 1900. What have you heard that has made it gain a lot of buzz?

 

 

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[lou99/maximus1987]

Maybe I'm just far out of the loop as of recently about the 1900. What have you heard that has made it gain a lot of buzz?

 

 

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Aggregation with 2.5 to extend range of 2.5 to equal 1.9

 

 

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[derrph]

Aggregation with 2.5 to extend range of 2.5 to equal 1.9

 

 

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Oh ok thanks for that. Boy I'm out of the loop cause I didn't know Sprint already started their aggregation.

 

 

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[lou99/maximus1987]

Oh ok thanks for that. Boy I'm out of the loop cause I didn't know Sprint already started their aggregation.

 

 

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They didn't. Not even trials for 1.9 + 2.5. This idea is based on a nokia paper.

 

 

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[caspar347]

Well, from my personal observations, now that B41 is up at near-full speed B25 speeds have gone from unusable on Friday nights to a few mbps in some parts of town. Of course there are still places with 100kbps over B25 during peak hours, but those areas are shrinking.

 

But we should get back on topic.

[joshnys8913]

Anyways back to the T-mobile discussion.... I live in a 700 market and the funny thing is their signal still stinks, I had a friend who had them back when smartphones just started and he said its not all that much better now with 700. lol Thats just one persons experience though. 

[lou99/maximus1987]

Anyways back to the T-mobile discussion.... I live in a 700 market and the funny thing is their signal still stinks, I had a friend who had them back when smartphones just started and he said its not all that much better now with 700. lol Thats just one persons experience though.

Which market is that?

What phone do you have?

 

 

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[joshnys8913]

Which market is that?

What phone do you have?

 

 

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Its in NY state and you obviously did not read what I wrote I said my friend, I do not have t-mobile. "I had a friend who had them back when smartphones just started and he said its not all that much better now with 700. lol Thats just one persons experience though." I should say I have a friend not had. (He has a S5)

 

[lou99/maximus1987]

Its in NY state and you obviously did not read what I wrote I said my friend, I do not have t-mobile. "I had a friend who had them back when smartphones just started and he said its not all that much better now with 700. lol Thats just one persons experience though." I should say I have a friend not had.

 

Like 3 phones are compatible with 700a and they barely started deploying.

 

 

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[danlodish345]

Like 3 phones are compatible with 700a and they barely started deploying.

 

They are building it out in my area...which is good

 

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[jackskellington6]

Its in NY state and you obviously did not read what I wrote I said my friend, I do not have t-mobile. "I had a friend who had them back when smartphones just started and he said its not all that much better now with 700. lol Thats just one persons experience though." I should say I have a friend not had. (He has a S5)

 

The S5 doesn't even have Band 12.