T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[bigsnake49]

Well, this is getting embarrassing. T-Mobile is begging to partner with Dish:

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobiles-carter-wed-be-very-interesting-partner-dish/2015-03-05

 

Sprint does not really need Dish's spectrum although as I have said many times before they could horse trade some spectrum. 

 

If they do sign up with a partner, I wonder what form that will take:

 

1. Merger - DT would probably prefer this one

2. Hosting the spectrum in exchange for money - Dish is probably not interested in this. Large initial outlay and sizable opex, then Dish would become a wireless carrier and they don't seem to want that.

3. Hosting in exchange for capacity - Dish uses part of the capacity and T-Mobile does use part. The split up to negotiation. The initial deployment of Dish's spectrum other than the AWS-3 G block will require a sizable capex. Who pays for it? It's not like T-Mobile is cash rich. Even AWS-3 would require some new network hardware.

 

Any other ideas?

[lou99/maximus1987]

Well, this is getting embarrassing. T-Mobile is begging to partner with Dish:

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobiles-carter-wed-be-very-interesting-partner-dish/2015-03-05

 

Sprint does not really need Dish's spectrum although as I have said many times before they could horse trade some spectrum.

 

If they do sign up with a partner, I wonder what form that will take:

 

1. Merger - DT would probably prefer this one

2. Hosting the spectrum in exchange for money - Dish is probably not interested in this. Large initial outlay and sizable opex, then Dish would become a wireless carrier and they don't seem to want that.

3. Hosting in exchange for capacity - Dish uses part of the capacity and T-Mobile does use part. The split up to negotiation. The initial deployment of Dish's spectrum other than the AWS-3 G block will require a sizable capex. Who pays for it? It's not like T-Mobile is cash rich. Even AWS-3 would require some new network hardware.

 

Any other ideas?

Dish has 40mhz SDL. That's 300mbps down, pair it up with AWS-1 and you've it a decent rural fixed solution.

 

Use lte broadcast to gradually move the channels to lte and ?repurpose their current satellite for lte?

 

Spectrum swap would gain what?

Dish now has b41 which it could lease to TMO in the cities and use for fixed rural.

There's no guarantee dish would choose sprint to host it. By having TMO host the 2.5, dish has leverage in that TMO needs the extra capacity.

 

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[bigsnake49]

Dish has 40mhz SDL. That's 300mbps down, pair it up with AWS-1 and you've it a decent rural fixed solution.

 

Use lte broadcast to gradually move the channels to lte and ?repurpose their current satellite for lte?

 

Spectrum swap would gain what?

Dish now has b41 which it could lease to TMO in the cities and use for fixed rural.

There's no guarantee dish would choose sprint to host it. By having TMO host the 2.5, dish has leverage in that TMO needs the extra capacity.

 

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Where did you get that Dish has band 41? As far as I know, they have the following spectrum:

 

1. 700MHz block E (downlink only)

2. 2000-2020 MHz and 2180-2200. Both can be configured as downlinks.

3. PCS block H (5x5) adjacent to Sprint's block G

4. AWS-3 (Block G, 15MHz unpaired uplink)

 

The trade with Sprint would be EBS spectrum for the 2000-2020MHz+PCS-H. Along with Sprint's PCS-G it can be configured for a nice 30x10 block.

[lou99/maximus1987]

Where did you get that Dish has band 41? As far as I know, they have the following spectrum:

 

1. 700MHz block E (downlink only)

2. 2000-2020 MHz and 2180-2200. Both can be configured as downlinks.

3. PCS block H (5x5) adjacent to Sprint's block G

4. AWS-3 (Block G, 15MHz unpaired uplink)

 

The trade with Sprint would be EBS spectrum for the 2000-2020MHz+PCS-H. Along with Sprint's PCS-G it can be configured for a nice 30x10 block.

I mean you want a trade to happen. It doesn't benefit sprint to have a non standard band.

 

 

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[bigsnake49]

I mean you want a trade to happen. It doesn't benefit sprint to have a non standard band.

 

 

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Neither does it benefit T-Mobile to host Dish's spectrum in return for capacity. At least Sprint can extend band 25 to include Dish's near -PCS holdings. The only standard band in Dish's spectrum holdings is the AWS-3 G block. The uplink AWS-3 does not count. If I am Dish I will reconfigure my midband spectrum as follows:

 

1. 2000-2020MHz+ PCS-H for a 25x5 block

2. 1695-1710Mhz uplink paired with 2180-2020 downlink for a 20x15 FDD block

3. AWS-3 Block G

4. I have no idea how they can utilize their 700 E block spectrum. Maybe T-Mobile can aggregate block E with their A band spectrum, obviating the need for 600 MHz spectrum

Edited March 6, 2015 by bigsnake49

[lou99/maximus1987]

They should just sell E to att.

 

 

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[bigsnake49]

They should just sell E to att.

 

 

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What is AT&T going to do with it? Their 700Mhz block D sits there unused.

Edited March 6, 2015 by bigsnake49

[lou99/maximus1987]

What is AT&T going to do with it? Their 700Mhz block D sits there unused.

Def not. B29 is D+E. iPhone has b29

 

 

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[bigsnake49]

Def not. B29 is D+E. iPhone has b29

 

 

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Only if it can be used with band 2 or 4 in a carrier aggregation scheme. BTW 700 block E cannot be used with with T-Mobile's Block  A. So Dish could definitely sell band E to AT&T. Or T-Mobile can use it in a CA scheme with other their PCS or AWS holdings. So can Sprint. So can Verizon. They can sell it to anybody. AT&T has the D block so for them it will be a great combination and will give them a very nice boost in downlink capacity. Then AT&T might not want to participate in the 600MHz auction. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by bigsnake49

[WiWavelength]

The trade with Sprint would be EBS spectrum for the 2000-2020MHz+PCS-H. Along with Sprint's PCS-G it can be configured for a nice 30x10 block.

1. 2000-2020MHz+ PCS-H for a 25x5 block

 

You can keep saying so, but nobody is going to standardize nor deploy a 25x5 MHz FDD or 30x10 MHz FDD band.  The only way either of those combinations happens is via supplemental downlink carrier aggregation.

 

AJ

[lou99/maximus1987]

You can keep saying so, but nobody is going to standardize nor deploy a 25x5 MHz FDD or 30x10 MHz FDD band. The only way either of those combinations happens is via supplemental downlink carrier aggregation.

 

AJ

I thought South Korea did

 

 

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[WiWavelength]

I thought South Korea did

 

Show me.  3GPP bands are not trade secrets.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

You can keep saying so, but nobody is going to standardize nor deploy a 25x5 MHz FDD or 30x10 MHz FDD band.  The only way either of those combinations happens is via supplemental downlink carrier aggregation.

 

AJ

Nobody was going to standardize PCS G or Band 26 LTE either but hey, it happened. Otherwise Dish's spectrum is useless. Yet T-Mobile is practically begging Dish to partner with them. I wonder why? It could not be 700Mhz E block or AWS-3 G block alone, is it? Those are the only two standard blocks of spectrum that Dish has. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by bigsnake49

[WiWavelength]

Nobody was going to standardize PCS G or Band 26 LTE either but hey, it happened. Otherwise Dish's spectrum is useless. 

 

Come on, you know better than this.

 

Those are poor parallels.  Band 25 and band 26 are symmetrical bands -- just like all other 3GPP FDD bands.

 

Additionally, Dish's spectrum is not useless.  The S band spectrum is already standardized at 20 MHz FDD as band 23.  And the PCS/AWS-2 H block can be standardized on its own or added to a band 2/25 future superset band.

 

AJ

[lou99/maximus1987]

Come on, you know better than this.

 

Those are poor parallels.  Band 25 and band 26 are symmetrical bands -- just like all other 3GPP FDD bands.

 

Additionally, Dish's spectrum is not useless.  The S band spectrum is already standardized at 20 MHz FDD as band 23.  And the PCS/AWS-2 H block can be standardized on its own or added to a band 2/25 future superset band.

 

AJ

 

Dish can't use 2,000-2,005 mhz for uplink so it can't quite do 20fdd.

[WiWavelength]

Dish can't use 2,000-2,005 mhz for uplink so it can't quite do 20fdd.

 

That is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  Band 23 is still 20 MHz FDD, not 15x20 MHz FDD, for example.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

Come on, you know better than this.

 

Those are poor parallels.  Band 25 and band 26 are symmetrical bands -- just like all other 3GPP FDD bands.

 

Additionally, Dish's spectrum is not useless.  The S band spectrum is already standardized at 20 MHz FDD as band 23.  And the PCS/AWS-2 H block can be standardized on its own or added to a band 2/25 future superset band.

 

AJ

Then why they asked the FCC to allow them to use both the uplink and downlink for band S as downlinks? The power envelope of PCS-H is like that of AWS not PCS. So what the hell are they going to do with their uplink AWS-3 unless they intend to pair it with the Lightsquared spectrum? They must be really comfortable that FCC will allow them to use the L band as downlink for their AWS-3 uplink.

[bigsnake49]

I guess T-Mobile is going to reveal the next uncannier move on the 18th.

[lou99/maximus1987]

I guess T-Mobile is going to reveal the next uncannier move on the 18th.

Small business

 

 

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[Paynefanbro]

Small business

 

 

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That's what everyone is thinking over at Google+.

[Deval]

Had a question come up that I've been trying to figure out. 

 

I know T-Mo is on full swing doing 2G->LTE conversions, but those markets are all using PCS for voice calling, correct? So say they have 15mhz of PCS spectrum in a market. Would they segment 10mhz (5x5) for LTE, and leave 5mhz for voice calls? 

 

What happens to their EDGE markets which do not have that much spectrum available? Will those sites also get upgraded to support 700A B12, or will they forever be B2 LTE only?

[lou99/maximus1987]

Had a question come up that I've been trying to figure out.

 

I know T-Mo is on full swing doing 2G->LTE conversions, but those markets are all using PCS for voice calling, correct? So say they have 15mhz of PCS spectrum in a market. Would they segment 10mhz (5x5) for LTE, and leave 5mhz for voice calls?

 

What happens to their EDGE markets which do not have that much spectrum available? Will those sites also get upgraded to support 700A B12, or will they forever be B2 LTE only?

They still have volte on GMO pcs lte.

 

I don't think they have any markets without enough pcs for 5fdd + gsm voice.

Even if they don't have enough for pcs lte, they have enough for 5fdd AWS lte.

 

 

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[Deval]

They still have volte on GMO pcs lte.

 

I don't think they have any markets without enough pcs for 5fdd + gsm voice.

Even if they don't have enough for pcs lte, they have enough for 5fdd AWS lte.

 

 

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But not all of their phones support VoLTE, so for voice calls they still need GSM voice. Also, I haven't heard them ADDING AWS to EDGE sites, only GMO conversions, right?

[lou99/maximus1987]

But not all of their phones support VoLTE, so for voice calls they still need GSM voice. Also, I haven't heard them ADDING AWS to EDGE sites, only GMO conversions, right?

They're not adding AWS lte to GMO lte sites.

If region doesn't have spectrum for pcs lte+voice, nothing will get done till it gets a full build of AWS+700a lte.

 

 

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[Deval]

They're not adding AWS lte to GMO lte sites.

If region doesn't have spectrum for pcs lte+voice, nothing will get done till it gets a full build of AWS+700a lte.

 

 

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So the promise of EDGE to LTE isn't really as straight forward as the magenta-ites think it is? 

 

Just so I understand, because I want to make sure I am not confused, if a person is in a T-Mobile EDGE location, regardless of AWS or 700a availability, if there is sufficient spectrum, the site will get upgraded to at least 5mhz LTE, and the remainder will be left for voice? Is T-Mobile doing 5x5 PCS LTE, or larger in those areas? If there is not sufficient spectrum, no work will be done till a full (NV style) build out is planned? 

 

Right now I believe T-Mobile has LTE on AWS, at the expense of HSPA+ right? What is their deployment breakdown on their spectrum holdings?