T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[lou99/maximus1987]

Probably multiple like Sprint's RRPP. T-Mobile is a member of the CCA

 

Hopefully not. The map has partner coverage as a separate coverage type.

[S4GRU]

I'm still skeptical that this will all be native built expansion by T-Mobile. I'm betting they will have some native roaming agreements to meet the 300mil goal.

 

In my cursory review of expansion areas (new coverages), I am having trouble seeing who these partners would be based on the footprints.  Like, for instance, in North and South Dakota or Northern Nevada.  A lot of them overlay existing EGDE/GPRS coverage areas.  I would guess these are all native by Tmo or at least an affiliate (like iWireless).  Not CCA partners.

[lou99/maximus1987]

In my cursory review of expansion areas (new coverages), I am having trouble seeing who these partners would be based on the footprints.  Like, for instance, in North and South Dakota or Northern Nevada.  A lot of them overlay existing EGDE/GPRS coverage areas.  I would guess these are all native by Tmo or at least an affiliate (like iWireless).  Not CCA partners.

 

I wonder under what terms TMO will use/acquire CSpire and USM 700a.

[Fraydog]

I wonder under what terms TMO will use/acquire CSpire and USM 700a.

Only as partitions in areas where USCC and CSpire doesn't serve natively. St. Louis for USCC and CSpire for Memphis and Nashville would be the obvious examples.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[milan03]

But Page 23 is concerning. Based on the Dallas example provided, it looks like they're planning to increase "coverage" using low-band, but do so by removing rural sites, and un-densifying the network.  (In the photo TMO provided, 35 / 35-W / 35-E from Hillsboro heading north. "Mid-band only" shows 7 cell sites. "LTE + Low band" shows only 4. Similar patterns are visible on all the freeways heading into the city).

Dallas map excerpt from the slide shows coverage benefits achieved using L700 spectrum vs L2100 as of today. It doesn't mean that they're done with L700 overlay, but obviously L700 has greater propagation characteristics vs L2100, and it may not be necessary to overlay every single cell site in order to match and exceed the existing mid-band LTE footprint.

 

I have no idea why would anyone begin to think that a Tier 1 wireless operator like T-Mobile would even consider removing their rural sites, knowing that the overwhelming majority of their subscriber base don't have L700 or VoLTE capable terminals. It would simply result in degradation of service and coverage gaps on GSM1900 and L2100 layers.

[newyork4me]

I walked up to my office in Burbank this morning to see a crew for TMO installing 700Mhz panels. It's cool to see the gear up close.

 

!!!! I think this is the first confirmed sighting in the now-defunct exclusion zone. 

 

And chance you can share the address of the tower and/or take pics?!

[bigmachine]

!!!! I think this is the first confirmed sighting in the now-defunct exclusion zone. 

 

And chance you can share the address of the tower and/or take pics?!

 

I thought it might be one of the first sightings for Los Angeles, that's why I posted about it.  I'll post pictures next week.  I might have to PM you the address... not sure what rules apply to the T-Mobile section here.

 

It looks like the crew finished the installation in one day.  It was a small army of 6 techs plus several guys from AT&T to upgrade the fiber to the site.  They took down one panel from each sector and put up one 700Mhz to replace each of those.  The new panels have separate RRUs.

 

UPDATE:

Here's a bad image I took with my phone:

[S4GRU]

 

 

I might have to PM you the address... not sure what rules apply to the T-Mobile section here.

You can post the pics here. No problem.

[lynyrd65]

I'm glad about the expanded coverage (and the map for Michigan looks perfect. Its not Verizon-level coverage by any means, but it's close enough that 98% of people here will have zero problems).

 

 

But Page 23 is concerning. Based on the Dallas example provided, it looks like they're planning to increase "coverage" using low-band, but do so by removing rural sites, and un-densifying the network. (In the photo TMO provided, 35 / 35-W / 35-E from Hillsboro heading north. "Mid-band only" shows 7 cell sites. "LTE + Low band" shows only 4. Similar patterns are visible on all the freeways heading into the city).

 

 

I really hope that's just an artifact of band scoping (all 7 sites will remain, but not all necessarily run low-band) or just mid-network upgrade weirdness in the photo.

 

But if it's not -- if the removal of sites shown in their photo is an accurate reflection of their strategy -- that's a huge mistake.

More likely not a removal of sites but skipping them for 700mhz. They will probably stay online just broadcasting mid-band PCS and AWS.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maxsilver]

I have no idea why would anyone begin to think that a Tier 1 wireless operator like T-Mobile would even consider removing their rural sites

 

Because they do! Using the lie of "overlapping coverage", these "Tier 1 operators" remove sites all the time. In my market over the last three years alone :

• Sprint killed over 50% of the entire states coverage when they bought and killed Nextel
• T-Mobile killed a handful of (badly needed) sites when they bought and merged MetroPCS. GR metro area lost ~10% of it's AWS LTE coverage in that move
• Sprint is currently in the process of killing 20-or-so Clearwire sites.

I know we just got the leak yesterday that some Clear + Nextel sites might potentially be brought back, but almost no evidence of that change has happened here so far -- and we've been without many of these sites now for years. A leak isn't an announcement or promise in any way, you can't hold Sprint to something they haven't actually said.

 

 

knowing that the overwhelming majority of their subscriber base don't have L700 or VoLTE capable terminals. It would simply result in degradation of service and coverage gaps on GSM1900 and L2100 layers.

 

Sprint didn't care when customers lost Voice/Text coverage (Nextel), or data service (WiMax). T-Mobile didn't care when MetroPCS customers lost their LTE. Why should I assume anyone cares about service degradation today, when they consistently haven't previously?

 

- - -

 

I know now that the new TMO map is scoped to Band 12, and doesn't represent combined coverage. I understand that it doesn't imply site removal, and I'm glad that is the case. I get it. And my initial question is fully answered.

 

But it's not like this is some unreasonable fear -- carriers kill sites all the time.  I'd love to live in some imaginary land where "Tier 1 wireless operators never consider removing sites". But since I live in the real world, and personally see sites disappear all the time, I don't think it's unreasonable to question that when I see them appear to be unaccounted for.

[EvanA]

 

 

I know we just got the leak yesterday that some Clear + Nextel sites might potentially be brought back, but almost no evidence of that change has happened here so far -- and we've been without many of these sites now for years. A leak isn't an announcement or promise in any way, you can't hold Sprint to something they haven't actually said.

There was a permit found in Los Vegas for a Clear to Sprint conversion, and I'm sure there are more that haven't been found.

 

Nextel iDEN coversions are happening too, in fact there was one done just down the road from my school.

[MacinJosh]

I know we just got the leak yesterday that some Clear + Nextel sites might potentially be brought back, but almost no evidence of that change has happened here so far -- and we've been without many of these sites now for years. A leak isn't an announcement or promise in any way, you can't hold Sprint to something they haven't actually said.

I've found 1 Clearwire conversion permit as of the end of 2014, and a new site permit as of the end of January. The permit should be approved soon. And yes, there has been at least 1 Clearwire site in Vegas shut down, but Band 41 already covers the area, as well as Band 25, and as of this summer, Vegas Band 26 should go live if all goes well with San Bernardino County. So I would not call this reduction in coverage. And believe me, permitting can take anywhere from 2 hours to 2 years to get approval. It's not unheard of. And since the Nextel sites thing is still a rumor, then they should already have engineers working on the plans so they can submit them as soon as they are ready to start the project. I believe you'll see permits start showing up by end of March, middle of April.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1

[atomic50]

I thought it might be one of the first sightings for Los Angeles, that's why I posted about it.  I'll post pictures next week.  I might have to PM you the address... not sure what rules apply to the T-Mobile section here.

 

It looks like the crew finished the installation in one day.  It was a small army of 6 techs plus several guys from AT&T to upgrade the fiber to the site.  They took down one panel from each sector and put up one 700Mhz to replace each of those.  The new panels have separate RRUs.

 

UPDATE:

Here's a bad image I took with my phone:

 

Here is the before  Thanks for the heads up!

http://imgur.com/jtqObhB

Edited February 28, 2015 by atomic50

[bigmachine]

Here is the before Thanks for the heads up!

http://imgur.com/jtqObhB

That's some NSA level skill. Nice matching!

 

Location for everyone else: Hollywood Way & Alameda. 91505.

[danlodish345]

That's some NSA level skill. Nice matching!

 

Location for everyone else: Hollywood Way & Alameda. 91505.

it seems like all of new Jersey is aws for lte and everything else

[EvanA]

As expect, T-Mobile is continuing the push for LAA. Deployment should start in 2016

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/t-mobile-sets-laa-deployment-2016/2015-03-02

[bigsnake49]

AT&T/T-Mobile spat over the auction. It seems that Dish and their designated entities were T-Mobile's opponents for the G block of AWS-3. AT&T is also telling T-Mobile that in the upcoming 600MHz auction they will have to compete against Sprint and Dish for the set-aside. I had a chuckle at all the T_Mobile Trolls that already started...trolling!

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/att-tussles-t-mobile-over-aws-3-spectrum-auction-results/2015-03-05

[Boosted20V]

Some rabid followers of T-Mobile in that comment string.

[derrph]

Geeze AT&T just went for the throat and then poured a mixture of bleach and lemon juice on the cut. It was a auction and people bid and the best offer wins. I'm sure some may disagree with this statement but T-Mobile is has outgrown and is no longer the underdog so it has to play the role of being a big boy.

 

If they thought this past auction was a disaster then the 600 will be a massacre. But it was just easier to blame AT&T and Verizon when it was Dish who really went toe to toe with them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bigsnake49]

Geeze AT&T just went for the throat and then poured a mixture of bleach and lemon juice on the cut. It was a auction and people bid and the best offer wins. I'm sure some may disagree with this statement but T-Mobile is has outgrown and is no longer the underdog so it has to play the role of being a big boy.

 

If they thought this past auction was a disaster then the 600 will be a massacre. But it was just easier to blame AT&T and Verizon when it was Dish who really went toe to toe with them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Believe it or not I think that the 600MHz auction will be cheaper than the AWS-3. For one thing the DE rules will be changed so that the DE for a single carrier cannot bid against each other. Second major carriers or holders of spectrum cannot have designated entities.

[lou99/maximus1987]

Believe it or not I think that the 600MHz auction will be cheaper than the AWS-3. For one thing the DE rules will be changed so that the DE for a single carrier cannot bid against each other. Second major carriers or holders of spectrum cannot have designated entities.

 

But a problem is that TV broadcasters are looking at AWS-3 prices as a STARTING point!

 

 

Preston Padden, who leads a group of broadcasters called Expanding Opportunities for Broadcasters Coalition, said the FCC isn't valuing broadcasters' spectrum correctly because the agency's spectrum valuation formula was created before the close of the AWS-3 auction and doesn't take into account the prices paid in the auction. The auction, which ended Jan. 29, had net winning bids of around $41.3 billion, double what many analysts had expected before the auction started. Padden argued that the AWS-3 auction demonstrates how much carriers are willing to pay for spectrum.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/fccs-estimated-opening-bids-600-mhz-auction-grossly-undervalues-licenses-br/2015-02-09

[mellimel2212]

Uh oh.

TMO dropped 5mbps in Portland over 6 months

 

30mbps

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/portland-or/2014/2H

25mbps

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/portland-or

T-Mobile refers to Open signal rather than root metrics.

 

Sent from my T-Mobile Galaxy S4 rockin 5.0.1

[mellimel2212]

I just don't understand it. I guess by them giving out that info they want people to feel jealous or in a way lesser because they don't have unlimited data which I'm sure a large fraction of people don't care.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If u think that bro u tweakin. Data isn't new like it was a couple years ago. It's the norm now.

 

Sent from my T-Mobile Galaxy S4 rockin 5.0.1

[EvanA]

T-Mobile refers to Open signal rather than root metrics.

 

Sent from my T-Mobile Galaxy S4 rockin 5.0.1

T-Mobile's "fastest network" claims are based on Ookla NetIndex. Legere regularly discredits RootMetrics because be claims the data is outdated and therefore not relevant.

[bigsnake49]

But a problem is that TV broadcasters are looking at AWS-3 prices as a STARTING point!

 

 

Preston Padden, who leads a group of broadcasters called Expanding Opportunities for Broadcasters Coalition, said the FCC isn't valuing broadcasters' spectrum correctly because the agency's spectrum valuation formula was created before the close of the AWS-3 auction and doesn't take into account the prices paid in the auction. The auction, which ended Jan. 29, had net winning bids of around $41.3 billion, double what many analysts had expected before the auction started. Padden argued that the AWS-3 auction demonstrates how much carriers are willing to pay for spectrum.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/fccs-estimated-opening-bids-600-mhz-auction-grossly-undervalues-licenses-br/2015-02-09

AWS-3 was a total abberation. Look at how much Verizon paid the cable cos or how much Tmobile paid for both their 700Mhz spectrum and hell even what they paid for MetroPCS, AT&T paid for Leap or how much Sprint paid for Clearwire. AWS-3 was driven by Dish and their DE trying to pump up the valuation of their own spectrum. A classic pump and dump scheme. Except that Dish might be caught with their pants down if none of the 4 carriers wants to play ball. Maybe Google can step in and finance Dish's network but where is Dish going to find the money to deploy their network and then find the customers to support a 5th carrier? AWS-3 might be a colossal failure for Dish. We just have to wait and see!