T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[P_M_G]

Did you take part of the free upgrade to unlimited minutes for loyal ED customers?

 

The WHUT??? I don't ever recall hearing about it. But honestly, I need unlimited minutes like I need my old BlackBerry Curve. I think the max we've ever used between the 4 lines (non m2m) is 300-350.

[jamisonshaw125]

The WHUT??? I don't ever recall hearing about it. But honestly, I need unlimited minutes like I need my old BlackBerry Curve. I think the max we've ever used between the 4 lines (non m2m) is 300-350.

https://www.sprint.com/landings/loyalty/loyaltypays.html

 

Upgrade all your lines

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Crapatalk

[compneo]

The irony is that half of the stuff in this thread does not belong here. Most of it is trolling or unrelated, but I guess it is up to who looks at it to decide.

[WiWavelength]

Don't discount the power of growth (or lack thereof) in influencing network decisions. They are tied very closely together, so it's critical to understand the effects of one on the other. This is true with Sprint and T-Mobile, as well as AT&T/Verizon.

 

Okay, tell that to T-Mobile.

 

Many forget that T-Mobile was down in the dumps, losing subs for various network coverage, 3G, iPhone, and LTE shortcomings during the period roughly 2005-2012.  I think many Magentans fail to appreciate this -- because many were still in high school, even middle school, during that dark period.  That is true of you, Neal -- you did not live through much of that time as an adult, and I say that not to pick on you but just as a fact.

 

In its attempted sale to AT&T, T-Mobile almost closed up shop in the US.  I think that sellout also gets a free pass from Magentans, but that is not my point.  No, T-Mobile came out of that experience and increased its network deployment -- even though T-Mobile, at the time, was in a position of weak subscriber growth.  T-Mobile did so in the hopes of "if you build it, they will come."

 

So, does Sprint have to be any different?  Are you going to lecture us that T-Mobile has the right ideas, while Sprint has an inferior network, leadership, or plan?

 

In the end, Sprint losing subs by draining the network of malcontents and data abusers is not necessarily a bad thing.  Maybe those subscriber losses result in a net cut in CAPEX.  But it is also possible that, even with a net cut in CAPEX, those subscriber losses result in a net gain in capacity per capita for those who remain.

 

We all know that T-Mobile is currently a cause célèbre for its data speeds.  But that is largely a product of T-Mobile having a small subscriber base with a lot of spectrum per capita -- and T-Mobile even promotes that latter fact.  So, call a spade a spade.

 

AJ

[Keitarou]

What other option would I have? The whole point is, with T-Mo not charging overages, it makes zero difference.

 

If I'm paying for 3GB, and not using it, it's gone anyway. The concept of "banking it" is all well and good, but unless your usage is significantly high for a month, the consistent usage remains.

 

Yes, no overage charges. Just slowed after using 3GB. With "banking it" now, you can have the extra high speed when you need it few times in the year. Like I said, it's options for people who would benefit. If you don't need it, that's fine. But I think most would rather have one than not.

 

You and I see it differently. I see it half full, you see it half empty. no right or wrong answer. Just different.

[Conan Kudo]

Okay, tell that to T-Mobile.

 

Many forget that T-Mobile was down in the dumps, losing subs for various network coverage, 3G, iPhone, and LTE shortcomings during the period roughly 2005-2012.  I think many Magentans fail to appreciate this -- because many were still in high school, even middle school, during that dark period.  That is true of you, Neal -- you did not live through much of that time as an adult, and I say that not to pick on you but just as a fact.

 

In its attempted sale to AT&T, T-Mobile almost closed up shop in the US.  I think that sellout also gets a free pass from Magentans, but that is not my point.  No, T-Mobile came out of that experience and increased its network deployment -- even though T-Mobile, at the time, was in a position of weak subscriber growth.  T-Mobile did so in the hopes of "if you build it, they will come."

 

So, does Sprint have to be any different?  Are you going to lecture us that T-Mobile has the right ideas, while Sprint has an inferior network, leadership, or plan?

 

In the end, Sprint losing subs by draining the network of malcontents and data abusers is not necessarily a bad thing.  Maybe those subscriber losses result in a net cut in CAPEX.  But it is also possible that, even with a net cut in CAPEX, those subscriber losses result in a net gain in capacity per capita for those who remain.

 

We all know that T-Mobile is currently a cause célèbre for its data speeds.  But that is largely a product of T-Mobile having a small subscriber base with a lot of spectrum per capita -- and T-Mobile even promotes that latter fact.  So, call a spade a spade.

 

AJ

I am not ignoring that at all. And you know extremely well that I don't. Sprint has not invested substantially on the ESMR and 2.6GHz networks since 2007 up until 2013, and T-Mobile stopped in 2009 for the majority of its AWS network stuff until 2012. Both did quite a bit of work on PCS in the meantime, though.

 

The issue is that Sprint is not following the "if you build it, they will come" strategy right now (or if they are, they have a poor showing of it). And Sprint has a ridiculous amount of spectrum per capita, so throwing that in my face isn't going to work either. Sprint also has the lowest deployed spectrum per capita anyway, so even with the losses, Sprint's capacity levels are totally out of whack with its actual subscribership.

 

Like it or not, anyone who pays for service is not a "malcontent" or a "data abuser", provided they are following the TOS (that is, not running warez servers, torrents, and the like off of it). You absolutely do not want people not using the network, because then there's no point to invest. And it's not fair to denigrate those who may have it as their only Internet connection because it may be all they can afford. That all being said, at the end of the day, a capex cut is a capex cut, because the network is largely fixed once deployed. Capacity isn't very fluid in the network because spectral resources generally remain in play once deployed.

[danlodish345]

Okay, tell that to T-Mobile.

 

Many forget that T-Mobile was down in the dumps, losing subs for various network coverage, 3G, iPhone, and LTE shortcomings during the period roughly 2005-2012.  I think many Magentans fail to appreciate this -- because many were still in high school, even middle school, during that dark period.  That is true of you, Neal -- you did not live through much of that time as an adult, and I say that not to pick on you but just as a fact.

 

In its attempted sale to AT&T, T-Mobile almost closed up shop in the US.  I think that sellout also gets a free pass from Magentans, but that is not my point.  No, T-Mobile came out of that experience and increased its network deployment -- even though T-Mobile, at the time, was in a position of weak subscriber growth.  T-Mobile did so in the hopes of "if you build it, they will come."

 

So, does Sprint have to be any different?  Are you going to lecture us that T-Mobile has the right ideas, while Sprint has an inferior network, leadership, or plan?

 

In the end, Sprint losing subs by draining the network of malcontents and data abusers is not necessarily a bad thing.  Maybe those subscriber losses result in a net cut in CAPEX.  But it is also possible that, even with a net cut in CAPEX, those subscriber losses result in a net gain in capacity per capita for those who remain.

 

We all know that T-Mobile is currently a cause célèbre for its data speeds.  But that is largely a product of T-Mobile having a small subscriber base with a lot of spectrum per capita -- and T-Mobile even promotes that latter fact.  So, call a spade a spade.

 

AJ

 

I am not ignoring that at all. And you know extremely well that I don't. Sprint has not invested substantially on the ESMR and 2.6GHz networks since 2007 up until 2013, and T-Mobile stopped in 2009 for the majority of its AWS network stuff until 2012. Both did quite a bit of work on PCS in the meantime, though.

 

The issue is that Sprint is not following the "if you build it, they will come" strategy right now (or if they are, they have a poor showing of it). And Sprint has a ridiculous amount of spectrum per capita, so throwing that in my face isn't going to work either. Sprint also has the lowest deployed spectrum per capita anyway, so even with the losses, Sprint's capacity levels are totally out of whack with its actual subscribership.

 

Like it or not, anyone who pays for service is not a "malcontent" or a "data abuser", provided they are following the TOS (that is, not running warez servers, torrents, and the like off of it). You absolutely do not want people not using the network, because then there's no point to invest. And it's not fair to denigrate those who may have it as their only Internet connection because it may be all they can afford. That all being said, at the end of the day, a capex cut is a capex cut, because the network is largely fixed once deployed. Capacity isn't very fluid in the network because spectral resources generally remain in play once deployed.

i agree and i have a unlocked s5 on tmobile and it works great...it even supports pcs lte ...current wideband is deployed on a tower near me .......15 mhz swath and its band 4 

[EvanA]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/confirmed-t-mobile-launch-unlicensed-lte-5-ghz-possibly-next-year/2014-12-17

 

Interesting. If 2.5 is "garbage" what does that make this?

[WiWavelength]

i agree and i have a unlocked s5 on tmobile and it works great...it even supports pcs lte ...current wideband is deployed on a tower near me .......15 mhz swath and its band 4 

 

Your post has no relevance to anything that Neal or I wrote.  You repeatedly post nowhere but this thread just to tell us how well T-Mobile is working for you.  Good for you.  But consider this your final warning:  stop loitering at S4GRU.

 

AJ

[jbom]

TMUS yesterday upgraded their Q4 2014 projections to fully 1.2 million postpaid net adds, from 939,000. 700Mhz is officially live in 4 cities. it's live here in Fort Lauderdale too but not everywhere.

 

Moody's meanwhile threw a dagger at Sprint with tonight's announcement, the agency now rates Sprint bonds as junk level with possibility of default.

Edited December 17, 2014 by jbom

[MkVsTheWorld]

 

 

If the cited stats are accurate, though, T-Mobile has been quite the revolving door -- some come and stay, but most leave.

Agreed.

 

I do see a silver lining though. The "revolving door" indicates that more people are venturing out of their comfort zones for cellular service. I see this as a good thing for Sprint too as some folks unhappy with T-Mobile might go the extra step to try another provider such as Sprint.

[sbolen]

Moody's meanwhile threw a dagger at Sprint with tonight's announcement, the agency now rates Sprint bonds as junk level with possibility of default.

The Moody's rationale is more like drowning kittens in the bath tub:

 

The negative outlook reflects our belief that a strained balance sheet, an increasingly competitive operating environment coupled with a weak brand (due in part to perceived network quality) will limit Sprint's ability to sustain a profitable improvement in its operating performance. Consequently, while churn and subscriber trends may improve over the short-term, EBITDA margins and cash flows will remain weak. Over the long-term, significant challenges loom since capital intensity will need to average at least 15% in order to keep up with usage growth.

 

Given the negative outlook, a ratings upgrade for Sprint is very unlikely. However, if leverage were to drop and remain below 5.5x, and free cash flow were to turn positive, upward rating pressure could ensue (note that all cited financial metrics are referenced on a Moody's adjusted basis). In addition, significant financial support from Softbank in the form of a debt guarantee or material equity capital infusion could also support Sprint's ratings.

 

Sprint's ratings would be lowered again if leverage were likely to be sustained above 6.5 x (Moody's adjusted) or if liquidity weakens further (i.e. SGL-4). The most likely causes for another downgrade would be the perception that Sprint's service quality is well below that of the three other national operators causing subscriber counts to fall. In addition, if recent efforts to remove approximately $1.5 billion in operating costs from the business are not realized quickly rating pressure will ensue since liquidity will deteriorate faster than currently expected.

 

The principal methodology used in this rating was the Global Telecommunications Industry published in December 2010. Other methodologies used include Loss Given Default for Speculative-Grade Non-Financial Companies in the U.S., Canada and EMEA published in June 2009. Please see the Credit Policy page on www.moodys.com for a copy of these methodologies.

I can see a scenario where SoftBank ponies up and buys a lot of shares at this perceived discount.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rawvega]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/confirmed-t-mobile-launch-unlicensed-lte-5-ghz-possibly-next-year/2014-12-17

 

Interesting. If 2.5 is "garbage" what does that make this?

 

Since it's T-Mobile, obviously it's going to be the best thing evAr!

[grapkoski]

TMUS yesterday upgraded their Q4 2014 projections to fully 1.2 million postpaid net adds, from 939,000. 700Mhz is officially live in 4 cities. it's live here in Fort Lauderdale too but not everywhere.

 

Moody's meanwhile threw a dagger at Sprint with tonight's announcement, the agency now rates Sprint bonds as junk level with possibility of default.

 

Corporate debt is risky - no matter how much sunshine a company is under when the debt is issued. In five years, a company could go broke from all sorts of mistakes and they don't have the luxury of a press that makes cash. After the crisis, where the ratings agencies were well.... taken out back... they have become over sensitive. Anyways, in my world (finance) we generally use them for the data aggregation, but not much else. Lawyers do use them as triggering clauses, but even that is being curtailed.

 

That said, if you like to gamble (and aren't about to retire on that money)... Sprint's debt and equity is a fun ride.

[jamisonshaw125]

Since it's T-Mobile, obviously it's going to be the best thing evAr!

i commented

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Crapatalk

[Conan Kudo]

Since it's T-Mobile, obviously it's going to be the best thing evAr!

Firstly, LAA-LTE is not designed to operate on a primary basis. Secondly, it's not designed to operate on macrocell systems. Any approach involving LAA-LTE will be extraordinarily different from how 2.6GHz LTE is deployed for this reason.

[centermedic]

The Moody's rationale is more like drowning kittens in the bath tub:

 

 

I can see a scenario where SoftBank ponies up and buys a lot of shares at this perceived discount.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I often ignore the guidance of Moody's, et al and focus on their reasoning. Most of these investment ad-visors are experts at the numbers but seldom take the time to learn the business.

[centermedic]

i commented

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Crapatalk

Me to.

[richy]

Since it's T-Mobile, obviously it's going to be the best thing evAr!

 

There's way too much mindless mud slinging from both sides here. Such a shame. Both tmobile and sprint have done a lot for the industry and have huge potential. Each has their own issues and each is taking their own approach. If they took identical approaches it would hurt them both, put them in direct competition and  stifle choice for us the consumers. 

 

If it wasnt both both companies we would be getting screwed by the big two. There is this pathetic mindset that tmo or sprint must be bad and must fail and nothing can be learnt from them. Both companies have their zealots, but they also have a decent number of subs who just want a decent service for a fair price and are happy to switch between the companies. This site is an amazing resource most of the time but sadly the childish nature frequently ruins it. 

 

Yes I am a tmobile subs and have been for quite a few years, because Sprint was a less attractive proposition. Unfortunately Sprint hasn't been able to roll out lte here yet (beyond a single site I think) and many sites don't have permits in yet so are unlikely to see lte inside of a year. I come here because it is interesting to see the progress they are making and understand the factors which differentiate sprints NV \ Spark proposition from the other providers, hopefully next year I will be able to make the jump back to Sprint. The animosity here towards people on other providers, the assumption that because we are not on sprint we must be loony magentians, it detracts from a wonderful site and community. 

 

A lot of what tmobile has done has been fluff, but they have managed to grow their company, begin to acquire 700 lower a and provide an unlimited lte plan at between $50 and $80 a line. Fluff aside, the basic proposition is pretty nice right now (sustainability is a fair question however). Whats really important for both sprint and tmobile is that they are different from each other whilst both growing and taking chunks out of the big two. Petty bickering between each other and competing directly is just playing into the hands of the big two. One of the few sane things out of Legeres mouth was the comments about Tmo and Sprint not needing the other one to fail to succeed but that seems to have been lost. 

 

I apologise to Robert for my comments above as he has always been exceptionally fair with me, this site is a credit to him but the fact that it seems impossible to have an adult conversation, even with a few casual jokes, about another carrier without it devolving into petty, malicious drivel and sniping is sad. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't even be considering sprint, I'd written them off before I found s4gru, but some folks are making it very easy to stop keeping an eye on them. 

[Rawvega]

There's way too much mindless mud slinging from both sides here. Such a shame.

 

Relax. I was just making a lighthearted jab at the yahoos that frequent the Fierce comments section. I'm fairly sure that the person that I quoted understood that so I don't see the big deal. Certainly not something worthy of all of the verbosity.

[maxsilver]

This site is an amazing resource most of the time but sadly the childish nature frequently ruins it.

 

but the fact that it seems impossible to have an adult conversation, even with a few casual jokes, about another carrier without it devolving into petty, malicious drivel and sniping is sad.

 

A lot of folks seem to forget that this is a Sprint fan site. You simply aren't going to get an objective conversation about other carriers here.

 

Yes, originally it was started around network upgrades. But that's not really the point anymore -- especially since the network upgrades will be mostly finished/over next year.

 

This is really a 'refugee' community of Sprint fans, with a few passionate cellular enthusiasts sprinkled in. You have to interpret most of the discussion through "Sprint-shaded-glasses" because that's what this site is. Even a few of the otherwise intelligent and well-respected authors occasionally drop into weird fanboyism over their pet topics/technology. (And I'm not blameless there -- I've written some long-winded rants about cell site density sins...)

 

There is no day where "petty sniping at T-Mobile" will stop, because it's part of the community here. The moderators even occasionally start /  encourage that behavior. It's a big part of why this site exists. 

 

Either you like and enjoy the fanboy stuff, or you learn to put up with it / ignore it. If your not willing to do that, your probably going to have a frustrating experience here.

[twospirits]

 

1-A lot of folks seem to forget that this is a Sprint fan site. You simply aren't going to get an objective conversation about other carriers here.

 

2-Yes, originally it was started around network upgrades. But that's not really the point anymore -- especially since the network upgrades will be mostly finished/over next year.

 

3-This is really a 'refugee' community of Sprint fans, with a few passionate cellular enthusiasts sprinkled in. You have to interpret most of the discussion through "Sprint-shaded-glasses" because that's what this site is. Even a few of the otherwise intelligent and well-respected authors occasionally drop into weird fanboyism over their pet topics/technology. (And I'm not blameless there -- I've written some long-winded rants about cell site density sins...)

 

4-There is no day where "petty sniping at T-Mobile" will stop, because it's part of the community here. The moderators even occasionally start /  encourage that behavior. It's a big part of why this site exists. 

 

5-Either you like and enjoy the fanboy stuff, or you learn to put up with it / ignore it. If your not willing to do that, your probably going to have a frustrating experience here.

My responses below are mine alone and may or may not reflect what other feel and it is not directed to anyone in particular but I am using your comments as a base to respond.

 

1-Yes, this is a site dedicated to Sprint network upgrades and like most other Sprint dedicated sites it probably would be hard to have an objective conversation. Yet I've noticed that we can so long as we keep it to network upgrades. Once it goes beyond that, it all goes downhill. 

 

2-I honestly think that there will always be some sort of upgrade going on. Granted, it may not be 4G per say but there will be some sort of upgrade to report on.

 

3-Their are plenty of Sprint users that like the style that s4gru presents as oppose to other sites that are infested with ongoing complaints, over jealous moderators, etc etc and therefore do come over to participate here just for that reason. Are they refugees? maybe. But come they do because they like the style and info. As for Sprint shaded glasses, as mentioned in point #1 this is a Sprint dedicated site. 

 

4-Every site that I know of does some sort of snipping at their competitors, some more harshly than others. I feel that we aren't as bad as some feel it is. As for the staff, well, we are passionate of the upgrades set forth by Sprint but we are also not blind. we will point out any misguided step that they do as well. No carrier is perfect and Sprint may work for some while another carrier will work better for the customers needs. It may seem that we and by we I am including all members not only staff, go off on T-Mobile alot but it is mainly because alot of these carriers (as well as brands, manufacturers etc) market their services to be something that they are not and they expect the customer to blindly accept it without facts.

 

5-For the time being until a solution is presented, this is all a member can do.

 

TS 

[bigmachine]

Does anyone know what T-Mobile plans on doing with the Metro PCS small cells deployed throughout the Los Angeles area?  Are they needed anymore?

 

They are mostly omnidirectional antennas on utility poles connected to NextG (now Crown Castle) equipment.

 

What I'm ultimately wondering is, if T-Mobile doesn't want them, can they be used by Sprint for B41?

[Conan Kudo]

Does anyone know what T-Mobile plans on doing with the Metro PCS small cells deployed throughout the Los Angeles area?  Are they needed anymore?

 

They are mostly omnidirectional antennas on utility poles connected to NextG (now Crown Castle) equipment.

 

What I'm ultimately wondering is, if T-Mobile doesn't want them, can they be used by Sprint for B41?

MetroPCS metrocell and DAS systems are being repurposed as much as possible for T-Mobile. If they are CDMA/LTE small cells, they are going to be replaced with HSPA+/LTE small cells. If they are DAS, then T-Mobile will just reconfigure them for HSPA+/LTE (since DAS is generally airlink agnostic).

 

They can't be used for Sprint because they are designed for AWS-1. Band 41 is 2496-2690 MHz, while AWS-1 is 1710-1755 / 2110-2155 MHz.

[maxsilver]

other sites that are infested with ongoing complaints, over jealous moderators, etc etc and therefore do come over to participate here just for that reason. Are they refugees? maybe.

 

To be clear, I don't mean the word "refugee" to be a bad thing. It's not an insult.

 

There were places where it was literally impossible to have a conversation about Sprint in any way, because customers were suffering so badly that *all* topics were overrun with complaints. I tend to think of S4GRU as "refuge" from that.