T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[S4GRU]

There is also a Verizon. They've successfully delivered a massive footprint there in a pretty admirable fashion.

And now T-Mobile re-signing, two years after their initial deal. And we know how rapid they've deployed there.

And yet Ericsson still sucks.

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[milan03]

And yet Ericsson still sucks.

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Ahhh!! Finally this all makes sense! 

[Conan Kudo]

I've been having a great sidebar conversation with Neal on Google Hangouts. He has corroborated that Tmo also suffers with Ericsson significantly. He also noted that Tmo took the entire Southeast US from Ericsson because of issues. So Ericsson is the common denominator here. Not Sprint.

 

Neal speculates that Ericsson keeps AT&T happy at everyone else's expense. And there may be some truth to that.

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Since I've been sprinkled into this conversation, I figured I might as well jump in anyway.

 

Yes, the portion of the T-Mobile US network for the Southeast originally used Ericsson. This is because the Powertel network was the basis for it. By 2000 (when Powertel was acquired by Deutsche Telekom along with VoiceStream), Powertel had PCS licenses throughout Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. Throughout that region, Powertel used Ericsson's GSM system to power its PCS network. For reference, SunCom used Nortel, Omnipoint used Ericsson, and Aerial used Nokia. VoiceStream used Nortel and Ericsson in select coastal markets, and Nokia everywhere else. The Nokia relationship extended to the Cook Inlet/VoiceStream JV and the Iowa Wireless Services JV.

 

In 2008, T-Mobile started rolling out UMTS using Nokia, Lucent, and Ericsson. Lucent was kicked out sometime later, and NSN+Ericsson remained. By 2012, though, T-Mobile had removed Ericsson from the Southeast. In fact, I had personally witnessed several sites in the Southeast where Ericsson was removed for Nokia and I've been told that it took place all over the region as part of the 3G/4G upgrade and it was happening in other regions too.

 

By now, the only places where Ericsson is in use are the Northeast Corridor and California. In un-upgraded (2G only) territories, Ericsson is still present in the Midwest, portions of the Southwest and non-California West Coast region. In these areas, the BTSes and the TMAs are coming down and are being replaced with new ones from a different vendor.

[bigsnake49]

There is also a Verizon. They've successfully delivered a massive footprint there in a pretty admirable fashion.

And now T-Mobile re-signing, two years after their initial deal. And we know how rapid they've deployed there.

If you are Ericsson would you not prioritize satisfying your largest customers first? It makes perfect sense to me.

[JeffDTD]

If you are Ericsson would you not prioritize satisfying your largest customers first? It makes perfect sense to me.

Agree. As with backhaul, I always suspected that sprint had signed the most cost efficient (cheapest) agreement that ericsson would agree to... And unfortunately, ericsson will really bare bones their resources and attention. I know this has been covered here before, but in the southeast where ericsson was responsible for both build as well as existing maintenance, it always implied a conflict of interest. And I firmly believe that even sprint was left in the dark with the kind of response they were given with network tickets and performance.

 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[milan03]

If you are Ericsson would you not prioritize satisfying your largest customers first? It makes perfect sense to me.

How does T-Mobile fit into that rationale?

[bigsnake49]

Agree. As with backhaul, I always suspected that sprint had signed the most cost efficient (cheapest) agreement that ericsson would agree to... And unfortunately, ericsson will really bare bones their resources and attention. I know this has been covered here before, but in the southeast where ericsson was responsible for both build as well as existing maintenance, it always implied a conflict of interest. And I firmly believe that even sprint was left in the dark with the kind of response they were given with network tickets and performance.

 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

 

Yep, I think a lot of the problems that Sprint had were of the project management variety. It was not just that they chose the cheapest but it was ordered just-in-time because they wanted to save money on their backhaul monthly expenses. The other thing that complicated Sprints project is that it was a complete rebuild instead of just overlay like Verizon and AT&T. 

[bigsnake49]

How does T-Mobile fit into that rationale?

They were low on the totem pole, plus they were not as cheap as Sprint. So they were probably 3rd in order, behind the big two. Sprint was penny wise, pound foolish.

[milan03]

They were low on the totem pole, plus they were not as cheap as Sprint. So they were probably 3rd in order, behind the big two. Sprint was penny wise, pound foolish.

So Ericsson prioritized the big two, and the 3rd "in order", but not the 4th. Hmm...

[S4GRU]

How does T-Mobile fit into that rationale?

Why do you keep ignoring that Tmo *FIRED* Ericsson over a whole region of the country? And Neal also says they are looking to get rid of them in California.

 

Tmo had HUGE equipment problems with Ericsson. Tmo had to start managing Ericsson and their supply chain for them. Tmo has to drag Ericsson to every finish line. Tmo is not happy with Ericsson. And I'd guess AT&T is not as happy with them, as the suppositions you paint...which the deductions you say you draw merely because they haven't been fired.

 

Milan, I have lots of shitty employees that I have not fired. The fact I haven't fired them is not indication they are great.

 

Ericsson sucks!

[bigsnake49]

So Ericsson prioritized the big two, and the 3rd "in order", but not the 4th. Hmm...

Milan, they were so many issues with Sprint's deployment, it will take many books to list them. Chief among them is that the network guys had grown when Sprint was one small step away from bankruptcy, so you had to watch every penny. The name of the game was survival. There is a certain mindset that takes over. Plus they had not managed any sizable project because, let's face it, Sprint had done done any major network project. They just did not have the experience. Plus in the first two years, they just did not have any money to play with. They did not have the whatever it takes mandate.

[S4GRU]

Make no mistake, I think Sprint is a big contributing factor in most of its blunders. But Sprint can make mistakes and Ericsson can still be problematic. They are not mutually exclusive. Both can occur at the same time.

[milan03]

Why do you keep ignoring that Tmo *FIRED* Ericsson over a whole region of the country? And Neal also says they are looking to get rid of them in California.

 

Tmo had HUGE equipment problems with Ericsson. Tmo had to start managing Ericsson and their supply chain for them. Tmo has to drag Ericsson to every finish line. Tmo is not happy with Ericsson. And I'd guess AT&T is not as happy with them, as the suppositions you paint...which the deductions you say you draw merely because they haven't been fired.

 

Milan, I have lots of shitty employees that I have not fired. The fact I haven't fired them is not indication they are great.

 

Ericsson sucks!

Is there a publicly available document that confirms T-Mobile firing Ericsson over a whole region of the country? I'd absolutely love to see that.

 

I'm seeing T-Mobile hiring Ericsson as of yesterday to conduct the next stage of infrastructure deployment. Let's mention that Ericsson deployed some major T-Mobile markets like NYC, LA, SFO, BOS, ATL to name a few, all performing stellar. Granted NSN equipment is definitely slightly newer with 4x2 MIMO compatibility with CL-MIMO, but to say that Ericsson sucks is unreasonable. At least not on T-Mobile, AT&T or Verizon.

 

Why not acknowledging poor performance of Alcatel-Lucent equipment on Verizon or AT&T? Those are major contracts, both loaded with outdated gear, performing subpar.

[S4GRU]

Is there a publicly available document that confirms T-Mobile firing Ericsson over a whole region of the country? I'd absolutely love to see that.

 

I'm seeing T-Mobile hiring Ericsson as of yesterday to conduct the next stage of infrastructure deployment. Let's mention that Ericsson deployed some major T-Mobile markets like NYC, LA, SFO, BOS, ATL to name a few, all performing stellar. Granted NSN equipment is definitely slightly newer with 4x2 MIMO compatibility with CL-MIMO, but to say that Ericsson sucks is unreasonable. At least not on T-Mobile, AT&T or Verizon.

 

Why not acknowledging poor performance of Alcatel-Lucent equipment on Verizon or AT&T? Those are major contracts, both loaded with outdated gear, performing subpar.

ALU also has problems. But they have performed better for Sprint than Ericsson. Also, ALU has done a great job for Verizon and AT&T in South Dakota. Also, ALU employees don't denigrate Alcatel Lucent the way Ericsson's do.

 

Milan, we will never get over our impasse, because to you the fact that Ericsson has not been fired from everyone and is still getting contracts means they are awesome. And if that is your only requirement is this kind of evidence, then I say that Ericsson is clearly a problematic OEM because Sprint doesn't have the same issues with Samsung, ALU and Nokia. Ericsson's problems for Sprint started early and have remained consistent. And Ericsson's network management division has been atrocious for Sprint. But that's another subject.

 

You appear to be a shill for Ericsson. And I don't know why. You won't accept any criticism regarding Ericsson. And we all know I'm a shill for Sprint. I run a damn Sprint site. But what about you?

[milan03]

ALU also has problems. But they have performed better for Sprint than Ericsson. Also, ALU has done a great job for Verizon and AT&T in South Dakota. Also, ALU employees don't denigrate Alcatel Lucent the way Ericsson's do.

 

Milan, we will never get over our impasse, because to you the fact that Ericsson has not been fired from everyone and is still getting contracts means they are awesome. And if that is your only requirement is this kind of evidence, then I say that Ericsson is clearly a problematic OEM because Sprint doesn't have the same issues with Samsung, ALU and Nokia. Ericsson's problems for Sprint started early and have remained consistent. And Ericsson's network management division has been atrocious for Sprint. But that's another subject.

 

You appear to be a shill for Ericsson. And I don't know why. You won't accept any criticism regarding Ericsson. And we all know I'm a shill for Sprint. I run a damn Sprint site. But what about you?

I couldn't care less for Ericsson, but I'm still not seeing any logical explanation on why Sprint's relationship with Ericsson keeps going south. Or why Ericsson "sucks". 

 

I've presented quite the amount of findings collected from observing the other three US Tier 1 operators, and while I'm sure Ericsson isn't the best vendor there is, the evidence shows that they've delivered their contracts on time to other three operators, and are getting awarded with the new ones.

 

In all honesty, I'd love for someone knowledgeable like yourself to break down the actual reasons for Sprint/Ericsson issues (if known), as I'm sure there are many. And if they're consistently messing things up, why isn't Sprint management letting them go already?! With Marcelo in charge, there's never been a better time to turn the page.

[S4GRU]

I couldn't care less for Ericsson, but I'm still not seeing any logical explanation on why Sprint's relationship with Ericsson keeps going south. Or why Ericsson "sucks".

 

I've presented quite the amount of findings collected from observing three other operators, and while I'm sure Ericsson isn't the best vendor there is, the evidence shows that they've delivered their contracts to other three operators, and are getting awarded with the new ones.

 

In all honesty, I'd love for someone knowledgeable like yourself to break down the actual reasons for Sprint/Ericsson issues (if known), as I'm sure there are many. And if they're consistently messing things up, why isn't Sprint management letting them go already?! With Marcelo in charge, there's never been a better time to turn the page.

So now you are contending Ericsson has even been good for Sprint? Whoa. I have nothing to work with here. There is nothing to debate further.

[milan03]

So now you are contending Ericsson has even been good for Sprint? Whoa. I have nothing to work with here. There is nothing to debate further.

Where did I ever say that?

 

Anyhow, if there is anyone with the knowledge on the issue and willing to educate me on the inner workings of Sprint/Ericsson dysfunctional relationship, I'm listening.

 

Thanks.

[S4GRU]

Where did I ever say that?

 

Anyhow, if there is anyone with the knowledge on the issue and willing to educate me on the inner workings of Sprint/Ericsson dysfunctional relationship, I'm listening.

 

Thanks.

It's all over our forums. Just read a few dozen of Digiblur's posts about Ericsson and it will give you the jist.

[maxsilver]

>You appear to be a shill for Ericsson. And I don't know why. You won't accept any criticism regarding Ericsson. 

 

I couldn't care less for Ericsson, but I'm still not seeing any logical explanation on why Sprint's relationship with Ericsson keeps going south. Or why Ericsson "sucks". 

 

Anyhow, if there is anyone with the knowledge on the issue and willing to educate me on the inner workings of Sprint/Ericsson dysfunctional relationship, I'm listening.

 

Holding a dissenting opinion, even just loosely, automatically equates to being a shill 

 

 - -

 

I don't like Ericsson in any particular way, but Milan's main point does seem accurate --- regardless of how bad Ericsson's past mistakes are, it doesn't seem to stop carriers (nearly every carrier) from using them over and over again.

 

They don't hold a monopoly, no one *has* to work with them. So...what's the deal here? Why do they continue to do so?

 

- - 

 

SoftBank worked on a software network trial with Ericsson in Japan, for instance, and was the vendor for some of their network equipment too ( according to LightReading and FierceWireless)

 

That happened one month ago. (August 2014), and from the article, appears to be a new arrangement. I know SoftBank Japan isn't Sprint, but if Ericsson was causing that much hell for Sprint, you'd think they would have told their own parent company.

[milan03]

Literally just found this video: http://www.ericsson.com/news/140924-t-mobile-expands-lte-network-coverage-and-capacity-with-ericssons-lte-advanced-technology_244099436_c

 

"In this video, Ericsson chronicles the record-breaking deployment of the T-Mobile LTE network – growing the network from zero to 200 million covered LTE POPs in less than nine months. A key aspect behind the project’s deployment speed is the Ericsson AIR product, which combines the antenna and radio in one elegant package to deliver superior network performance. The result: T-Mobile has grown its subscriber base, revolutionized its high-speed data offerings for customers, and successfully repositioned the company as an industry innovator. Ericsson is proud to be selected for Phase II of T-Mobile’s network build."

[lilotimz]

- -

 

SoftBank worked on a software network trial with Ericsson in Japan, for instance, and was the vendor for some of their network equipment too ( according to LightReading and FierceWireless)

 

That happened one month ago. (August 2014), and from the article, appears to be a new arrangement. I know SoftBank Japan isn't Sprint, but if Ericsson was causing that much hell for Sprint, you'd think they would have told their own parent company.

There's a huge world of difference between Ericsson Japan and Ericsson America.

 

As I said earlier the first thing softbank did after taking over was to initiate a program with Ericson Japan to replace all existing US Ericsson band 25 equipment and radio heads with a new design originating from Ericsson Japan.

 

Note that rrus 11s were sometimes only months old to two year old before they got replaced in whole.

 

I don't know about their corporate structure but I don't recall any vendor completely replacing all their equipment wholesale right after they deployed it.

 

Also the first thing softbank did after putting in their bid in early 2013 was contact Nokia to deploy network equipment for sprint to replace Ericsson. They even had Nokia 8t8r equipment in testing by April 2013 long before the finally won over dish which should be quite telling since it implies they never even considered Ericsson.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cdk]

It's all over our forums. Just read a few dozen of Digiblur's posts about Ericsson and it will give you the jist.

 

Digiblur, Digiblur, Digiblur.

 

That should summon him to this conversation!

[S4GRU]

And this is why we can't have a T-Mobile thread because we don't have the time to hunt down every fucking bullshit post when you challenge me to a link fest.

 

The things I've discussed are things well documented for years throughout our forums. I know I'm being trolled by the likes of Milan and maxsilver when even Neal agrees with me. He's the closest thing to a Tmo S4GRU knowledge bank.

 

These kinds of bullshit just take me off from working on things of value for the site. I even had to pull over several times from driving to respond. And now I'm responding by Google voice to text. Which is a good thing, because it removed several expletives.

 

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Deval]

So as it stands, with T-Mobile actively trying to find 700a wherever possible, how far out are they from deploying on it? I know the iPhone 6/6+ does not support B12, but I believe there are more B12 devices out there, correct? 

[newboyx]

And this is why we can't have a T-Mobile thread because we don't have the time to hunt down every fucking bullshit post when you challenge me to a link fest.

 

The things I've discussed are things well documented for years throughout our forums. I know I'm being trolled by the likes of Milan and maxsilver when even Neal agrees with me. He's the closest thing to a Tmo S4GRU knowledge bank.

 

These kinds of bullshit just take me off from working on things of value for the site. I even had to pull over several times from driving to respond. And now I'm responding by Google voice to text. Which is a good thing, because it removed several expletives.

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

You won't like him when he is angry

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk