Network Vision Explained

[WiWavelength]

Both Canada and the US currently utilize iDen in the same spectrum so they don't interfere. With the US re-farming the 800Mhz band, interference will occur.

 

That is partly right. The SMR 800 MHz band in Canada is used for iDEN (Telus Mike), but it is also used for public safety. Regardless, those are narrowband operations (25 kHz channelization). So, as Robert adroitly indicates in his response above, the US and Canada coordinate usage of those narrowband channels. Along the border, the US gets to use one set of channels, while Canada gets to use a different set, etc.

 

Now that Sprint intends to shut down iDEN and deploy wideband operations (CDMA1X and LTE) in its SMR 800 MHz spectrum, however, channel coordination becomes difficult, even downright impossible because wideband operations occupy so much greater bandwidth. And that is why Sprint may be unable to deploy LTE 800 in some markets near the Canadian border.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

It's simple 1900 facing the Canadian boarder 800 Facing the US. 1900 will be easier to keep from jumping over into Canada (as far at least) and it'll provide just enough coverage. 800 Mhz will go as far as it possibly can in the opposite direction.

 

To add another thought on this scenario, about 10 years ago, a prospective wireless licensee floated a plan to reuse for its downlink the DSS frequencies assigned to DirecTV and Dish Network. The licensee wanted to deploy only south facing antennas that would, presumably, not interfere with reception for DBS dishes because the dishes all would be similarly facing south. In other words, the cell sites would transmit only south and those transmissions would be blocked by the backs of the DBS dishes. Of course, multipath reflections (from buildings, trucks, and, poetically enough, the backs of those DBS dishes) would have bounced parts of that signal back north in a heartbeat. I have no idea how this plan ever made it past the sketch on a napkin stage. It makes the LightSquared proposal seem incredibly well engineered, by comparison.

 

AJ

[NiteSnow]

To add another thought on this scenario, about 10 years ago, a prospective wireless licensee floated a plan to reuse for its downlink the DSS frequencies assigned to DirecTV and Dish Network. The licensee wanted to deploy only south facing antennas that would, presumably, not interfere with reception for DBS dishes because the dishes all would be similarly facing south. In other words, the cell sites would transmit only south and those transmissions would be blocked by the backs of the DBS dishes. Of course, multipath reflections (from buildings, trucks, and, poetically enough, the backs of those DBS dishes) would have bounced parts of that signal back north in a heartbeat. I have no idea how this plan ever made it past the sketch on a napkin stage. It makes the LightSquared proposal seem incredibly well engineered, by comparison.

 

AJ

 

Wow I feel like an idiot for proposing that that would even work. But he sounds like even more of an idiot.

[S4GRU]

Wow I feel like an idiot for proposing that that would even work. But he sounds like even more of an idiot.

 

Don't feel like an idiot. The purpose of S4GRU is education about spectrum and wireless networks. Even my knowledge has been greatly expanded the past year.

 

Robert

[NiteSnow]

Don't feel like an idiot. The purpose of S4GRU is education about spectrum and wireless networks. Even my knowledge has been greatly expanded the past year.

 

Robert

 

I certainly appreciate this sites existence.

[MacinJosh]

 

I certainly appreciate this sites existence.

 

Me too. I have learned more from this site than i could have from any mobile technology degree.

 

Sent from my LG Viper 4G LTE using Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

Me too. I have learned more from this site than i could have from any mobile technology degree.

 

Hmm, I did not know that one could earn a mobile technology degree. Maybe the University of Westfield offers that program.

 

 

AJ

[MacinJosh]

 

Hmm' date=' I did not know that one could earn a mobile technology degree. Maybe the University of Westfield offers that program.

 

 

AJ[/quote']

 

ITT does offer a mobile tech program.

 

Sent from my LG Viper 4G LTE using Forum Runner

[strav22]

Question for those of you that know more about NV.

 

How does a city which is Sprint NV complete compare to a city that is covered by Verizon?

 

I understand that Sprint is updating back haul and launching improved 3G and new LTE on 1900 in 2012-2013. Sprint will launch LTE on 800 in 2013. Clear will launch LTE on 2500 starting in 2013 for those urban environments.

 

I just dont know anything about the verizon network and how it compares. Any insight? I'm in Chicago, Verizon definitely has great 3G and LTE coverage here. I believe LTE is on 700 so it penetrates buildings well.

 

Thanks

[djmiro83]

Question for those of you that know more about NV.

 

How does a city which is Sprint NV complete compare to a city that is covered by Verizon?

 

I understand that Sprint is updating back haul and launching improved 3G and new LTE on 1900 in 2012-2013. Sprint will launch LTE on 800 in 2013. Clear will launch LTE on 2500 starting in 2013 for those urban environments.

 

I just dont know anything about the verizon network and how it compares. Any insight? I'm in Chicago, Verizon definitely has great 3G and LTE coverage here. I believe LTE is on 700 so it penetrates buildings well.

 

Thanks

 

You might want to check out this thread

http://s4gru.com/ind...lte-on-verizon/

 

Some good discussion on how Verizon's 700MHz band isn't so great with LTE in terms of building penetration.

[strav22]

You might want to check out this thread

http://s4gru.com/ind...lte-on-verizon/

 

Some good discussion on how Verizon's 700MHz band isn't so great with LTE in terms of building penetration.

 

Gracias

[jefbal99]

Interesting, I was tweeting with @SprintCare today regarding the "Upgrade Now" program and the details around it. They couldn't point me to a PR or any rules/guidelines/details for the program. I said that Sprint is needs to share these details with their customers, not hide them. Same for the Network Vision project.

 

There reply sent me to network.sprint.com and said that Network Vision updates are available there. Is it possible that Sprint is starting to intermix NV updates into that site or is that still the completely separate legacy band aid upgrades?

[S4GRU]

Interesting' date=' I was tweeting with @SprintCare today regarding the "Upgrade Now" program and the details around it. They couldn't point me to a PR or any rules/guidelines/details for the program. I said that Sprint is needs to share these details with their customers, not hide them. Same for the Network Vision project.

 

There reply sent me to network.sprint.com and said that Network Vision updates are available there. Is it possible that Sprint is starting to intermix NV updates into that site or is that still the completely separate legacy band aid upgrades?[/quote']

 

Let me know when you find one that says LTE or something to that effect and maybe I'll believe it.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

[jefbal99]

Let me know when you find one that says LTE or something to that effect and maybe I'll believe it.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

 

Agreed, just wanted to put it out there Think I'm going to keep the thread going and I'll let you know

[jefbal99]

Agreed, just wanted to put it out there Think I'm going to keep the thread going and I'll let you know

 

Very interesting, after getting replies within minutes for awhile, I asked the following over two tweets..

 

@sprintcare Regarding http://network.sprint.com I see Voice, Data Speed and Data Capacity. I assume voice is voice carriers (1/2)

@sprintcare and that data speed is backhaul, & data capacity is data carrier. What is the LTE upgrade indicator? (2/2)

 

And now we have radio silence

 

Maybe I spooked them...

[WiWavelength]

And now we have radio silence

 

Maybe I spooked them...

 

As I have long said, do not ask entry level employees for info that you can gather elsewhere yourself. My apologies to the few who fall outside of this stereotype, but roughly 90 percent of entry level employees know nothing other than what is needed to answer the most basic questions.

 

AJ

[jefbal99]

As I have long said, do not ask entry level employees for info that you can gather elsewhere yourself. My apologies to the few who fall outside of this stereotype, but roughly 90 percent of entry level employees know nothing other than what is needed to answer the most basic questions.

 

AJ

 

I agree 100%, but if they are going to direct me to a site that I believe is incorrect, then i feel it is my job to try and lead them to the correct info. By asking about LTE information, I hope it causes them to question their information and request updates/better info to provide to customers.

[halcyoncmdr]

Interesting, I was tweeting with @SprintCare today regarding the "Upgrade Now" program and the details around it. They couldn't point me to a PR or any rules/guidelines/details for the program. I said that Sprint is needs to share these details with their customers, not hide them. Same for the Network Vision project.

 

There reply sent me to network.sprint.com and said that Network Vision updates are available there. Is it possible that Sprint is starting to intermix NV updates into that site or is that still the completely separate legacy band aid upgrades?

 

Upgrade Now is still being tested as a pilot program and is only available in retail stores. It is not available to every account, even if the account may meet the requirements for the program it might not be included for varying reasons. This likely is why there is no published official information about it like Sprint's other programs and initiatives.

[jefbal99]

 

Upgrade Now is still being tested as a pilot program and is only available in retail stores. It is not available to every account' date=' even if the account may meet the requirements for the program it might not be included for varying reasons. This likely is why there is no published official information about it like Sprint's other programs and initiatives.[/quote']

 

I had a chat with the closest Corp site this afternoon and it is going to cost me $50 to move the upgrade date up from 10/1. I know it's only six weeks, but my mom has put up with that pos Samsung Transform for too long

 

Sent from my CM9 Epic 4g Touch using Forum Runner

[jefbal99]

A question about capacity...

 

Network Vision is a great plan and is rolling along, but looking at spectrum availability, why wasn't more planned? In many markets Sprint has a great deal of current unused PCS Spectrum, why isn't a 2nd 5x5 LTE carrier being setup in PCS A-F blocks to future proof those areas so in 18 months when round 3 & 4 are under way, rework/revisits to major metropolitan areas are not needed. I know that there will be a 5x5 LTE carrier in SMR and potentially huge LTE carriers in Clearwire's BRS spectrum, but current LTE devices will not support either of those. It has been theorized that the network priority will be PCS>SMR>BRS due to cost and saving the SMR carriers for devices that can't connect to PCS. This means the G block carrier will be the first to load up, even if you have a newer device that supports SMR or BRS.

 

In a year or so, all the initial LTE Devices will be stuck with just the PCS G Block 5x5 LTE carrier. Wouldn't it be wise for Sprint to utilize unused spectrum where it is available? The more Network Vision completes, the more data will be consumed on Sprint's network. I know that as soon as the NV 3G is done in my area, my data usage will go up because I won't need my wifi all the time. No issues downloading that ROM update, because I can do it at the office, etc. The enhanced speed of the LTE network will make the situation even worse as your "average users" will use data at the rate power users do today and power users data use will probably grow exponentially.

 

Not trying to be the black cloud, but I try to look at both the positive and negative, and potentially Sprint could be shooting itself in the foot very soon.

 

I guess the questions here are:

• Why not additional PCS A-F block carriers now where spectrum is available?
  
• What does it take to add additional carriers?
  
  • Is new equipment needed at the tower (Panels/radios/switches/etc)
    
  • Can this be done remotely on an as needed basis with existing equipment?
    
  • Is any local or fcc approval needed to add LTE carriers to already unused, licensed spectrum?
    

  [*]How will Sprint manage carrier congestion to get devices that support SMR and BRS (where available) to move onto those carriers when the PCS G Block begins to fill up, what is the threshold?

  [*]Is there a "Network Vision 2: PCS Re-farming Boogaloo" planned to shutdown CDMA2000 and 1X/1XA data/voice carriers to be replaced with VoLTE and additional LTE-A data carriers.

[WiWavelength]

A question about capacity...

 

Jeff, your post is well thought out (and nicely organized, I might add). But your concerns are almost all for naught.

 

Yes, Sprint does have PCS A-F block spectrum in many markets that is fallow or that it can refarm for additional LTE 1900 5 MHz x 5 MHz carriers. In fact, we addressed this issue in an article on the The Wall way back in February:

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-27-spectrum-analysisdoes-sprint-have-more-options-for-additional-lte-carriers/

 

We have also referenced additional LTE 1900 carriers often in other articles and here in The Forums. More importantly, though, Sprint is on the same page. Internal roadmap documents indicate that Sprint plans to deploy supplemental LTE 1900 carriers on high traffic sites in many markets within the next year.

 

So, worry not...

 

AJ

[jefbal99]

So, worry not...

 

AJ

 

Thanks AJ, I remember the article and that along with the many mentions on the site in different threads lead to my post. I've seen talk of additional carriers, but never any solid data/facts.

 

I've never seen the internal roadmap documents so I'm glad that plans are already in place.

 

As for the deployment question, say the NY MTA, usage just goes through the roof in Q1 2013 and Sprint wants to setup a second 5x5 LTE carrier. Is it purely a software/configuration thing that can be done remotely or is additional equipment needed at each tower? I'm not sure how many carriers the radio/antenna panel combos can handle, I'm RF dumb

[S4GRU]

Thanks AJ, I remember the article and that along with the many mentions on the site in different threads lead to my post. I've seen talk of additional carriers, but never any solid data/facts.

 

I've never seen the internal roadmap documents so I'm glad that plans are already in place.

 

As for the deployment question, say the NY MTA, usage just goes through the roof in Q1 2013 and Sprint wants to setup a second 5x5 LTE carrier. Is it purely a software/configuration thing that can be done remotely or is additional equipment needed at each tower? I'm not sure how many carriers the radio/antenna panel combos can handle, I'm RF dumb

 

It involves adding a carrier card at the base station. Each radio can handle up to 4 carriers. Each panel can handle up to 4 radios.

 

Robert

[jefbal99]

It involves adding a carrier card at the base station. Each radio can handle up to 4 carriers. Each panel can handle up to 4 radios.

 

Robert

 

So I'd guess that each sector on a tower will have 3 radios currently, one for 800Mhz and two for 1900Mhz. That would give the sector 8PCS carriers. We know that one is LTE, are the other seven carriers enough to cover CDMA2000 for voice and 3G data on a given sector?

 

What is the capacity of a given CDMA2000 voice and/or data carrier?

 

If adding a LTE carrier in the PCS A-F is simply a carrier card because radio space exists, then I can understand. You can send a truck out and hit 20 towers in a day, but if a RRU is needed to be installed as well, then I'd highly question Sprints planning. NV is a complete network rebuild, I'd want to future proof my build out so that I don't need to touch a tower for 24 months for equipment upgrades.

[S4GRU]

So I'd guess that each sector on a tower will have 3 radios currently, one for 800Mhz and two for 1900Mhz. That would give the sector 8PCS carriers. We know that one is LTE, are the other seven carriers enough to cover CDMA2000 for voice and 3G data on a given sector?

 

What is the capacity of a given CDMA2000 voice and/or data carrier?

 

If adding a LTE carrier in the PCS A-F is simply a carrier card because radio space exists, then I can understand. You can send a truck out and hit 20 towers in a day, but if a RRU is needed to be installed as well, then I'd highly question Sprints planning. NV is a complete network rebuild, I'd want to future proof my build out so that I don't need to touch a tower for 24 months for equipment upgrades.

 

They are only deploying needed radios, and it varies greatly from site to site. In a place where they are deploying CDMA 800, CDMA 1900 and LTE 1900 now, there would be three radios per panel. The CDMA 800 radio would only be connected to one carrier card, but would have room for up to three more. The LTE 1900 radio would only be connected to one carrier card, leaving availability for up to three more.

 

The CDMA 1900 radio could support up to four carriers. About 25% of Sprint sites have more than four carriers. In these locations, they would need an additional CDMA 1900 radio. And there are approximately less than 1% with more than 8 carriers. These would need a third CDMA 1900 radio.

 

However, back to your basic premise, there is a lot of LTE 1900 capacity in that radio. Up to three more carrier cards. No need to worry.

 

Robert