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Is your community killing your shot at LTE?

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So I'm at the local Sprint store reviving my old Crackberry Curve to replace my 10yo's Samsung Rant that has decided to not hold a charge and I flippantly ask one of the guys about LTE in South OC...

 

He says he used to be in the group that designed and deployed the towers before the $$ crunch that led to Sprint outsourcing all the tower builds/upgrades to Ericsson and the others currently working NV.

 

We talked for a while about why LA was going nuts (and his buddy pulling 32/20 in Lakewood) with quick upgrades and he brought up a great point about South OC...The Irvine Company.

 

For those unfamiliar, the Irvine Company basically owns most of South OC and has for generations. The problem is they have some severely antiquated restrictions like max building heights (2 story) that require significant effort and expense to get past. He said the costs involved are at least double if not triple to add new sites here and that we can't expect a huge change just by upgrading the existing towers since many are in lousy, limited height locations already..

 

The second point he made was our insane "not in my backyard" HOA restrictions. South OC is full of "planned communities" with ridiculously restrictive bylaws making it nearly impossible to build in them. This isn't rural farmland where you can put a tower in the middle of a cornfield, nearly every acre of viable land is covered with housing and retail. He said it was so difficult to get past the HOAs regardless of how the construction would go (make it look like a tree or put the gear underground or whatever, offering free phones to neighbors "affected" by the construction) that until the Softbank deal, they basically said "screw it."

 

He was hopefull that the cash influx from Softbank would open some eyes and they'd bite the bullet here to take a hit initially but keep more people from defecting (a good half of people I know that were on Sprint have moved to VZW or TMO in the last 6 months).

 

I'm not sure how things like this affect other areas of the country - but if NV seems to be skipping you or rolling out slower than other areas, look into it.

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I'm going to tell you that HOA's are nothing when you are modifying antenna setups. Most of the problems are engineering and city & county commissioners who like to make a stink about the smallest things. For new towers, that could definitely be a problem, but I guess in some cities, even modifications could run into the same issues. I know AT&T had problems in SFO when they started the 3G rollout because the older community went crazy thinking their brains would fry because of cell phones, and that delay was 6 months to a year.

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The title of your thread is a little misleading. I haven't heard about any sites in orange county that are not getting converted to LTE.

 

The biggest issue is suburban sprawl. You are right, nobody is going to want a cell tower in their backyard of a giant master planned community. It's particularly annoying in places like orange county because a planned community can be very large. If you live in the middle of one of these communities, coverage, regardless of carrier, will be problematic. It has nothing to do with the city but people just don't want a booming tower in the middle of their cookie cutter housing development.

 

At the end of the day, it is peoples choice to live in these large communities with no cell coverage.

 

He is wrong about coverage though. With sprint deploying CDMA 1x Advanced voice and LTE on 800MHz ESMR (old nextel spectrum), coverage in south orange county will improve significantly.

 

I don't really think Sprint coverage is all that bad in Orange County.

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I don't know about my backyard, but I personally like the tower in my front yard.

 

Robert via Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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I don't know about my backyard, but I personally like the tower in my front yard.

 

Robert is no NIMBY; he is an IMFY.

 

;)

 

AJ

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Some enterprising developer needs to build the wireless nerd master planned community, one that actually encourages cell sites.

 

AJ

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Robert is no NIMBY; he is an IMFY.

 

;)

 

AJ

 

That's the nicest thing I've been called all week. :tu:

 

Robert via Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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I don't know about my backyard, but I personally like the tower in my front yard.

 

Robert via Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

These were the good 'ol days

7172465503_976912dbc4.jpg

I miss the days of having a sprint antenna outside my bedroom window...

 

 

Nowadays, at my new home, I bounce between a few different towers and am lucky to get coverage at all. It's depressing.

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Speaking as a City Planner, the biggest obstacle I've seen new cell towers face has been neighborhood opposition. In the communities I've worked for, we've been cooperative with respect to design and placement--usually moving projects forward with little issue. However, once the neighborhoods catch wind of projects they predictably blow up with studies on the damaging effects of cellular radiation. I know of two recent locations that made it through 95% of City entitlement only to be derailed by massive public outcry and political pressure. It frustrates me because NIMBYs rarely listen to the professionals, they only listen to the information that feeds their confirmation bias.

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Speaking as a City Planner, the biggest obstacle I've seen new cell towers face has been neighborhood opposition. In the communities I've worked for, we've been cooperative with respect to design and placement--usually moving projects forward with little issue. However, once the neighborhoods catch wind of projects they predictably blow up with studies on the damaging effects of cellular radiation. I know of two recent locations that made it through 95% of City entitlement only to be derailed by massive public outcry and political pressure. It frustrates me because NIMBYs rarely listen to the professionals, they only listen to the information that feeds their confirmation bias.

 

This is a big problem in Santa Fe. They even fight perfectly disguised stealth sites. Like in existing church steeples.

 

And what really frustrates me is that the people who complain the most about cell sites are the first ones to complain about signals and data speeds. Brilliant!

 

Robert via Samsung Note II via Tapatalk

 

 

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It frustrates me because NIMBYs rarely listen to the professionals, they only listen to the information that feeds their confirmation bias.

 

Very true.

 

I heard a great story about how a local town had some new high voltage power lines run by the town's high school. After the lines were installed, the town demanded a meeting with the power company. People, one by one, stood up in the gymnasium speaking about all of the issues that happened to students since the power lines were installed (poor sleep, poor grades, ADHD, blah blah blah).

 

After everyone was done speaking, a representative from the power company apologized for all of the issues people had but politely explained that while the power lines were installed, they had yet to transmit any power over the lines.

 

Absolutely comical.

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Very true.

 

I heard a great story about how a local town had some new high voltage power lines run by the town's high school. After the lines were installed, the town demanded a meeting with the power company. People, one by one, stood up in the gymnasium speaking about all of the issues that happened to students since the power lines were installed (poor sleep, poor grades, ADHD, blah blah blah).

 

After everyone was done speaking, a representative from the power company apologized for all of the issues people had but politely explained that while the power lines were installed, they had yet to transmit any power over the lines yet.

 

Absolutely comical.

 

Don't even get me started on the misconceptions the general public has regarding power and cable lines.

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I apologize if I have posted some version of this polemic before. I probably have. But I am long since convinced that most people really have little idea how cellphones actually operate. They want cellphone service, but somehow without RF. The sad thing is that, even if RF were a legitimate cause for concern, the emitters to be concerned about would not be the cell sites that so many ill informed people oppose. The signal strength from those base stations is already well below 1 mW even 50 feet from the antennas. No, the emitters to be concerned about would be the cellphones that nearly all of them use because cellphones can radiate greater than 200 mW right up the sides of their dimwitted heads. And what they almost universally fail to understand is that the less dense the cell site network is, the greater the power that their cellphones have to emit. So, unless they avoid cellphones altogether, their cell site opposition actually, ironically works against their RF aversion.

 

science > belief

 

AJ

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Very true.

 

I heard a great story about how a local town had some new high voltage power lines run by the town's high school. After the lines were installed, the town demanded a meeting with the power company. People, one by one, stood up in the gymnasium speaking about all of the issues that happened to students since the power lines were installed (poor sleep, poor grades, ADHD, blah blah blah).

 

After everyone was done speaking, a representative from the power company apologized for all of the issues people had but politely explained that while the power lines were installed, they had yet to transmit any power over the lines.

 

Absolutely comical.

Ba ha ha ha ha ha! I really, truly am beginning to think that the vast majority of the population (CLEARLY not us! : o ) ) is basic beyond reproach and that there is simply no hope for the human race. *sigh.

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After everyone was done speaking, a representative from the power company apologized for all of the issues people had but politely explained that while the power lines were installed, they had yet to transmit any power over the lines.

 

Absolutely comical.

 

I actually read something like this in a case study regarding a cell tower. A cavalcade of residents complained of headaches, sleepless nights, nausea and other ailments. The tower representative said he would turn off the tower for the next four weeks. So, four weeks later another community meeting was held and the public spoke of how much better they slept and the ailments disappeared. The tower rep then informed them that the tower had never been shut off.

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I was slightly concerned when we moved to our current home, being so close to a site. However, my headaches decreased and I sleep better. So logically, I can conclude that higher RF exposure actually helps prevents headaches and is a great sleep aide! :hah:

 

Robert

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People look for RF exposure as a simple excuse for headaches, ADHD, etc. They fail to recognize that pace of life and demand for constant connectivity are the far more likely causes of their ailments. Plenty of towns in rural Kansas would be happy to have those people and reduce those causes, not to mention, limit their RF exposure simply due to distance. But few of those people would accept that lifestyle. Thus, their maladies are at least partly their own doing.

 

AJ

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The title of your thread is a little misleading. I haven't heard about any sites in orange county that are not getting converted to LTE.

 

The biggest issue is suburban sprawl. You are right' date=' nobody is going to want a cell tower in their backyard of a giant master planned community. It's particularly annoying in places like orange county because a planned community can be very large. If you live in the middle of one of these communities, coverage, regardless of carrier, will be problematic. It has nothing to do with the city but people just don't want a booming tower in the middle of their cookie cutter housing development.

 

At the end of the day, it is peoples choice to live in these large communities with no cell coverage.

 

He is wrong about coverage though. With sprint deploying CDMA 1x Advanced voice and LTE on 800MHz ESMR (old nextel spectrum), coverage in south orange county will improve significantly.

 

I don't really think Sprint coverage is all that bad in Orange County.[/quote']

 

I wish my new subdivision had a tower in it, my coverage is going to be sketchy and I'm going to need an antenna setup to have in house LTE. I won't have high speed internet so phones are all we will have.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Forum Runner

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Very true.

 

I heard a great story about how a local town had some new high voltage power lines run by the town's high school. After the lines were installed, the town demanded a meeting with the power company. People, one by one, stood up in the gymnasium speaking about all of the issues that happened to students since the power lines were installed (poor sleep, poor grades, ADHD, blah blah blah).

 

After everyone was done speaking, a representative from the power company apologized for all of the issues people had but politely explained that while the power lines were installed, they had yet to transmit any power over the lines.

 

Absolutely comical.

 

Where do you get this stuff XD that is hilarious, I would like to see the reaction when the rep announced that

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No, the emitters to be concerned about would be the cellphones that nearly all of them use because cellphones can radiate greater than 200 mW right up the sides of their dimwitted heads.

To be marginally fair, there are some consumers who are deeply worried about the RF exposure from the phones themselves. Some of them buy these magic stickers that, through some unknown power, supposedly reduce RF exposure to your head. They look like a series of circuit leads, and are advertised with videos of boiling red blood cells (I wish I could find again the particular website a fellow pointed me to)

 

Now, assuming that these magic stickers actually do reduce RF somehow (which is a huge assumption), the instructions say to place it on the back of your phone, preferably under the battery back or on the battery itself. In other words... it would be unable to block any RF from shooting in to your brain. It'll protect your hand, though! In theory.

 

When attempting to explain this, the fellow told me multiple times how he'd "seen the studies" that "clearly showed" that RF was murdering us all, and that these stickers were our only salvation. And in the same breath, how he "needed his phone", and needed it fixed immediately.

 

I really wonder about our species, sometimes...

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It's the American way. Blame your problems on someone/something else cuz we could do no wrong. On the plus side it has spawned a funding idea for S4GRU. An anti RF pill that must be taken daily to "treat" your RF symptoms. All we need now is some skewed charts and some sugar pills with a shiny labeled container.<br /><br />Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD<br />

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And what really frustrates me is that the people who complain the most about cell sites are the first ones to complain about signals and data speeds.

 

So very true.

They don't understand the more little small towers, the better, the less 'harmful' radio signals.

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On the plus side it has spawned a funding idea for S4GRU. An anti RF pill that must be taken daily to "treat" your RF symptoms. All we need now is some skewed charts and some sugar pills with a shiny labeled container.

 

No, a simple pill just will not cut it. For the tinfoil hat crowd, we need to create and market an anti RF anal suppository. Sure, it is the size of a football. But if you are really concerned about RF, shove this up your butt, and you will be protected. Trust us.

 

AJ

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It's the American way. Blame your problems on someone/something else cuz we could do no wrong. On the plus side it has spawned a funding idea for S4GRU. An anti RF pill that must be taken daily to "treat" your RF symptoms. All we need now is some skewed charts and some sugar pills with a shiny labeled container.<br /><br />Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD<br />

 

The American way is to enjoy being ignorant.

 

When you are afraid of change, you look for reasons why change is bad.

 

Confirmation bias + ignorance = America #1!!!!

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The bull$### Americans willfully and adamently ingest every day is more harmful than any amount of radiation from communications. Carbonated beverages cause far more health issues, but the same looney nimby who fears "cell tower brain fry" sucks down a couple cans of diet coke every day. Most americans who are obsessed with the radiation topic will feed themselves to death long radiation gets them.

My favorite misnomer back in the early 2000's were the gas station attendants who would refuse to turn on a gas pump if they saw you talking or using a phone. I remember the first time this happened to me, 2004. I was out in no mans land, had swiped a credit card for gas, but the pump wouldnt come on. The station attendant came on the speaker outside and said "sir, you gotta turn off dat phone if you want gas". So I walked in and had a toothless wonder look at me with the conviction of jesus in her eyes tell me that the phones "comucatin" around gas pumps cause fires and explosions and I was to either follow the rules or get out.

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