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Posted

Migrated from Original Forum. Originally Posted 17 November 2011

 

WiMax is dead. Stick a fork in it!

 

Ssrong witchu ?!?! :lol:

 

My WiMax still has a pulse and I use it everyday. :tu:

Posted

 

Ssrong witchu ?!?! :lol:

 

My WiMax still has a pulse and I use it everyday. :tu:

 

It was from our old forums almost a year ago. Our import of our old forum has a lot of missing posts. So you cannot see in context what I was talking about. I was talking about the expansion of WiMax. WiMax expansion had ended in 2011, and I was explaining that WiMax expansion was dead.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

Posted

Robert,

I am still getting 8-12MB DL on my og Evo on Wimax.

However, I havent seen a 2MB DL on 3G in months now.

I usually Average about 300KB to 600KB DL now.

What the heck happened?

I have updated PRL and Profile.

 

There are a few other things that you are missing the idea of and for that matter robert missed too. Not saying that anything that he said was wrong, he was 100% right with what he said, just he missed an important extra point. People are switching to the new LTE phones even in areas where they have functioning WiMax on their old phone. The WiMax carriers are becoming less burdened because none of the new phones (except a few for virgin and boost) are using WiMax 4G. Therefore, people staying with the old phones and the old network should see incremental improvements as the network gets less crowded.

 

On the flip side of this argument, we have all those over 1 million people that have bought a new LTE phone and MANY of them are in areas that do not have LTE but did have WiMax... So if they were used to streaming/downloading/etc. they will still be doing so, just on the 3G network that their phones can actually access. This should not be a problem after network vision, but for areas that just received a band-aid fix to help the normal usage while many people were still using WiMax, once those people are added back to the 3G network, it will slow again.

 

For the record, sprint should be able to handle all the people on its network, and hopefully after network vision we will come back to these forums and say "remember when we used to complain about network speeds and in-building coverage?!" we can only hope...

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

On 3G, this is a common problem with the band aid improvements (the ones shown at network.sprint.com). If you think about it, what happens when a 3G site bogs down and becomes unusable? People stop using it.

 

So, when a legacy site gets a temporary backhaul upgrade, the speeds go way up. Over 2Mbps in some instances. Everyone becomes happy again. And then people start using it again.

 

In fact, it works so well, so much better than ever that people use it more than ever before, once they realize the 3G is performing well again. People start streaming Netflix and Pandora, and they all are happy. More and more people realize and start using it. And then the speeds start going down again. Below 1Mbps. Then below 500kbps, and sometimes below 100kpbs...all over again.

 

The reason why is one of two reasons, and possibly both in many instances. Number one...now with extra usage that is occurring, the site now also needs an additional EVDO carrier. All the extra traffic now has drowned out the existing carrier load. Number two...the additional backhaul is insufficient for the new amount of traffic that is occurring at the site now that people are now using it again at much greater amounts than ever before.

 

As for the backhaul, there is no permanent solution until Network Vision comes with permanent upgraded backhaul. If they add another T1 line, it will likely get swamped too. As for additional carriers, they probably can add those. Calling Sprint and opening a ticket can get them to add more carriers in the long run.

 

However, 300k-600k speeds are near the normal Sprint posted speeds for 3G. Which if memory serves is 400k-1Mbps.

 

Robert

 

I remember when sprint's quoted speeds were 600k - 1.4 Mbps ...

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

On 3G, this is a common problem with the band aid improvements (the ones shown at network.sprint.com). If you think about it, what happens when a 3G site bogs down and becomes unusable? People stop using it.

 

So, when a legacy site gets a temporary backhaul upgrade, the speeds go way up. Over 2Mbps in some instances. Everyone becomes happy again. And then people start using it again.

 

In fact, it works so well, so much better than ever that people use it more than ever before, once they realize the 3G is performing well again. People start streaming Netflix and Pandora, and they all are happy. More and more people realize and start using it. And then the speeds start going down again. Below 1Mbps. Then below 500kbps, and sometimes below 100kpbs...all over again.

 

The reason why is one of two reasons, and possibly both in many instances. Number one...now with extra usage that is occurring, the site now also needs an additional EVDO carrier. All the extra traffic now has drowned out the existing carrier load. Number two...the additional backhaul is insufficient for the new amount of traffic that is occurring at the site now that people are now using it again at much greater amounts than ever before.

 

As for the backhaul, there is no permanent solution until Network Vision comes with permanent upgraded backhaul. If they add another T1 line, it will likely get swamped too. As for additional carriers, they probably can add those. Calling Sprint and opening a ticket can get them to add more carriers in the long run.

 

However, 300k-600k speeds are near the normal Sprint posted speeds for 3G. Which if memory serves is 400k-1Mbps.

 

Robert

 

Thanks for reply Robert,

 

The 3G speeds haven't improved yet here in Hawaii.

Trying to stream Netflix or surfing the net is painful at the moment.

With that said? Is there a running list for the NV 3rd round markets yet?

Thanks again!

Posted

There are a few other things that you are missing the idea of and for that matter robert missed too. Not saying that anything that he said was wrong, he was 100% right with what he said, just he missed an important extra point. People are switching to the new LTE phones even in areas where they have functioning WiMax on their old phone. The WiMax carriers are becoming less burdened because none of the new phones (except a few for virgin and boost) are using WiMax 4G. Therefore, people staying with the old phones and the old network should see incremental improvements as the network gets less crowded.

 

On the flip side of this argument, we have all those over 1 million people that have bought a new LTE phone and MANY of them are in areas that do not have LTE but did have WiMax... So if they were used to streaming/downloading/etc. they will still be doing so, just on the 3G network that their phones can actually access. This should not be a problem after network vision, but for areas that just received a band-aid fix to help the normal usage while many people were still using WiMax, once those people are added back to the 3G network, it will slow again.

 

For the record, sprint should be able to handle all the people on its network, and hopefully after network vision we will come back to these forums and say "remember when we used to complain about network speeds and in-building coverage?!" we can only hope...

 

I truly hope so

Posted

 

Thanks for reply Robert' date='

 

The 3G speeds haven't improved yet here in Hawaii.

Trying to stream Netflix or surfing the net is painful at the moment.

With that said? Is there a running list for the NV 3rd round markets yet?

Thanks again![/quote']

 

We have released some 3rd Round markets in the NV Deployment Running List thread. We have been really hesitant to release 3rd and 4th Round market info because there has been a lot of schedule movement in them since we first received schedules. It could hurt our credibility to release them and then Sprint does something else. We have seen too many changes.

 

So the 3rd Round markets we have released now include places we have confirmed that the OEM has started to mobilize or begin work. Unless we see a new revised schedule broken into Rounds (or as Sprint calls them, phases), then we may never full release 3rd and 4th Round markets as far in advance as we did 1st and 2nd Rounds.

 

Additionally, I have heard internal rumors that there may not really be a separate 3rd and 4th Round, now that all RF design and field coordination is complete for all markets. It may just be a matter of getting started in each market as soon as the OEM can gather their subcontractors together and the backhaul deployment can get far enough ahead. As well as permitting (where required). This seems plausible, but this has not been corroborated. But it could explain why so many 3rd Round markets seem to be starting early.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

On 3G, this is a common problem with the band aid improvements (the ones shown at network.sprint.com). If you think about it, what happens when a 3G site bogs down and becomes unusable? People stop using it.

 

So, when a legacy site gets a temporary backhaul upgrade, the speeds go way up. Over 2Mbps in some instances. Everyone becomes happy again. And then people start using it again.

 

In fact, it works so well, so much better than ever that people use it more than ever before, once they realize the 3G is performing well again. People start streaming Netflix and Pandora, and they all are happy. More and more people realize and start using it. And then the speeds start going down again. Below 1Mbps. Then below 500kbps, and sometimes below 100kpbs...all over again.

 

The reason why is one of two reasons, and possibly both in many instances. Number one...now with extra usage that is occurring, the site now also needs an additional EVDO carrier. All the extra traffic now has drowned out the existing carrier load. Number two...the additional backhaul is insufficient for the new amount of traffic that is occurring at the site now that people are now using it again at much greater amounts than ever before.

 

As for the backhaul, there is no permanent solution until Network Vision comes with permanent upgraded backhaul. If they add another T1 line, it will likely get swamped too. As for additional carriers, they probably can add those. Calling Sprint and opening a ticket can get them to add more carriers in the long run.

 

However, 300k-600k speeds are near the normal Sprint posted speeds for 3G. Which if memory serves is 400k-1Mbps.

 

Robert

 

One of the big problems with the band-aid fixes that Sprint has been installing (the ones on network.sprint.com) is that they are woefully inadequate by the time they get installed. By the time you get down to sub-100kbps speeds on T1 lines, it's because you're already trying to push twice as much data through them than they are capable of. So to get back to fairly normal functioning, you probably need at least a 100% increase in backhaul immediately, but that's not what gets installed.

 

Here's an example of what happened on one of the towers closeby. Speeds went downhill (100kbps-150kbps at best throughout the entire day) so I opened network tickets with Sprint. All of this information was given to me by their ticket management division. Sprint schedules capacity upgrades to add another EVDO carrier and two T1 lines for backhaul, but they didn't get installed for another 9+ months. There were already 4 T1 lines to the tower for data, so they were increasing backhaul by 50% to a total of 6 T1 lines. By the time the upgrades got installed the speeds were already down to 20-50kbps at best. After the 50% capacity upgrade, the speeds were back to 100kbps-200kbps at best during the day (basically back to the same speed from 9 months earlier). Sprint immediately schedules more capacity upgrades, but again won't have them installed for at least another 6 months. No idea how the second round of upgrades turned out.

 

So Network Vision should be a huge improvement. Being able to share the backhaul between the LTE and EVDO network should resolve all of the backhaul issues for the EVDO network.

Edited by billyjoejimbob
Posted

 

One of the big problems with the band-aid fixes that Sprint has been installing (the ones on network.sprint.com) is that they are woefully inadequate by the time they get installed. By the time you get down to sub-100kbps speeds on T1 lines' date=' it's because you're already trying to push twice as much data through them than they are capable of. So to get back to fairly normal functioning, you probably need at least a 100% increase in backhaul immediately, but that's not what gets installed.

 

Here's an example of what happened on one of the towers closeby. Speeds went downhill (100kbps-150kbps at best throughout the entire day) so I opened network tickets with Sprint. All of this information was given to me by their ticket management division. Sprint schedules capacity upgrades to add another EVDO carrier and two T1 lines for backhaul, but they didn't get installed for another 9+ months. There were already 4 T1 lines to the tower for data, so they were increasing backhaul by 50% to a total of 6 T1 lines. By the time the upgrades got installed the speeds were already down to 20-50kbps at best. After the 50% capacity upgrade, the speeds were back to 100kbps-200kbps at best during the day (basically back to the same speed from 9 months earlier). Sprint immediately schedules more capacity upgrades, but again won't have them installed for at least another 6 months. No idea how the second round of upgrades turned out.[/quote']

 

I do not disagree with your points. However, I was speaking specifically to the phenomenon where speeds get very good after a band aid fix and then rapidly deteriorate again. T1's are definitely not long term backhaul solutions and Sprint knows that.

 

The amount of T1's that serve a site is highly variable. They need at least two, one for EVDO and one for 1x. However, some have more than a dozen. Fortunately T1's are going away in Network Vision.

 

Robert via Moto Photon Q using Forum Runner

Posted

Can someone point me to the website to "open a ticket" for poor network performance?

 

Apologies for slightly off topic question.

Posted

Can someone point me to the website to "open a ticket" for poor network performance?

 

Apologies for slightly off topic question.

 

I'm not aware of a website to do that. I ended up having to speak with Sprint's customer support who then generated a network ticket for the problem. After the network ticket was generated, you then check with sprint's ticket management division for updates and resolution on the problem (they receive their information from network engineering etc...).

  • Like 1
Posted

I do not disagree with your points. However, I was speaking specifically to the phenomenon where speeds get very good after a band aid fix and then rapidly deteriorate again. T1's are definitely not long term backhaul solutions and Sprint knows that.

 

The amount of T1's that serve a site is highly variable. They need at least two, one for EVDO and one for 1x. However, some have more than a dozen. Fortunately T1's are going away in Network Vision.

 

Robert via Moto Photon Q using Forum Runner

 

Network vision should solve the EVDO network backhaul issues, so that will be a welcome improvement. It would be nice if the other carriers were able to utilize some of the same technology to share backhaul between the LTE and EVDO network. Where I live, Verizon and US Cellular both have LTE up and running and my Verizon phone on some towers will go from 10mbps LTE to 100kbps EVDO. So Sprint should have a big advantage with their EVDO network backhaul problems solved by network vision. I'm guessing the other carrier's plans are to simply shift as many users onto the LTE network as possible to alleviate congestion on the EVDO network.

Posted

Network vision should solve the EVDO network backhaul issues, so that will be a welcome improvement. It would be nice if the other carriers were able to utilize some of the same technology to share backhaul between the LTE and EVDO network. Where I live, Verizon and US Cellular both have LTE up and running and my Verizon phone on some towers will go from 10mbps LTE to 100kbps EVDO. So Sprint should have a big advantage with their EVDO network backhaul problems solved by network vision. I'm guessing the other carrier's plans are to simply shift as many users onto the LTE network as possible to alleviate congestion on the EVDO network.

 

I cannot speak to US Cellular, but as for Verizon, they do utilize the same backhaul for 3G and LTE. In an instance where the LTE is still fast and 3G EVDO is slow at Verizon, when connected to the same exact site, the issue is capacity and not backhaul. However, it is very hard, if not impossible to determine which LTE site you are connected to and which 3G EVDO site. Verizon only has about half of their sites in most markets upgraded to LTE, not all. So the VZE LTE site you are connected to may be further away than the 3G EVDO site.

 

VZW is upgrading all their 1x/EVDO only sites to microwave/fiber backhaul to allow for additional capacity and for LTE to be added at the site quickly, when needed. It is possible that the 100k EVDO site you are referring to has not been upgraded to new backhaul yet. Or, the EVDO carriers there are over capacity. VZW is usually pretty good about deploying more EVDO carriers when needed. So if this has been occurring for a long time, then VZW may be spectrum limited in the location in question and cannot add more EVDO capacity.

 

Robert

  • Like 1
Posted

I cannot speak to US Cellular, but as for Verizon, they do utilize the same backhaul for 3G and LTE. In an instance where the LTE is still fast and 3G EVDO is slow at Verizon, when connected to the same exact site, the issue is capacity and not backhaul. However, it is very hard, if not impossible to determine which LTE site you are connected to and which 3G EVDO site. Verizon only has about half of their sites in most markets upgraded to LTE, not all. So the VZE LTE site you are connected to may be further away than the 3G EVDO site.

 

VZW is upgrading all their 1x/EVDO only sites to microwave/fiber backhaul to allow for additional capacity and for LTE to be added at the site quickly, when needed. It is possible that the 100k EVDO site you are referring to has not been upgraded to new backhaul yet. Or, the EVDO carriers there are over capacity. VZW is usually pretty good about deploying more EVDO carriers when needed. So if this has been occurring for a long time, then VZW may be spectrum limited in the location in question and cannot add more EVDO capacity.

 

Robert

 

Ahh, yeah you are right, I forgot that not all Verizon towers have LTE service installed, so you're right that I'm probably connecting to an entirely different tower for the slow EVDO connection. And you're right that it could be EVDO carrier congestion and not lack of backhaul. Though from what I've read elsewhere, I think my 100kbps EVDO connection is a lack of backhaul because the upload speed is often much higher than the download speed. Like 100kbps download, and 400kbps upload. I seem to recall reading elsewhere (or maybe a post elsewhere on this site) that typically if the upload speed is alot higher than the download speed, it's because the backhaul is congested on the download direction but not as congested on the upload. So if that's wrong information please correct me. Thanks!

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