SouthernLinc continuing iDEN despite Sprint iDEN shutdown

[jonathanm1978]

Southern Co and it's subsidiaries still tout one of the lowest electricity rates across the US compared to other providers. Though the percentages have gone down since the economic crisis, they still range 10% to 15% cheaper than any other..

 

I'd much rather have no choice to purchase their power, which is costing me an average of $115/month with a central air unit in a 4 bedroom brick home...than to pay what folks out west pay, especially in places like Cali, where they regularly run out of power and have random brown-outs.

 

I hate to be devil's advocate here, but there are a few comments that are far from truth..when it comes to renewables, they are in a league of their own. A 100mW biomass plant in Texas, converting a coal plant to biomass in GA, micro-turbines on billboards, a geothermal 30mW job in Hawaii, refuse-powered generators in Bay County, FL...

 

Right now they are building two nuclear facilities in GA. A record they hold in Nuclear is never having any level of threat at their plants, because of the safety they put in place. Before a nuke reactor scrubs, they have so many things that have to be in place, where in Japan, they had 2 things that safeguarded the nuke and both of them were disabled.

 

I think we should mainly just talk about SoLinc and not try to say that they pass much onto their customer, when their customers enjoy some of the lowest rates for electricity in the entire US..

 

One thing that was thrown at me was how many other utilities there are that DONT operate their own iDEN network and they do just fine...well, SoComp operates their own iDEN network and still don't raise rates to compensate for the cost of it because those utilities that don't do it..charge more for electricity than SoComp does.

 

I'm glad we aren't getting personal with this..but I also have internal information to go on that many may not be aware of.

[pyroscott]

Southern Co and it's companies still tout one of the lowest electricity rates across the US compared to other providers. Though the percentages have gone down since the economic crisis, they still range 5% to 8% cheaper than any other..

 

I'd much rather have no choice to purchase their power, which is costing me an average of $115/month with a central air unit in a 4 bedroom brick home...than to pay what folks out west pay, especially in places like Cali, where they regularly run out of power and have random brown-outs.

 

Good for you. Can we get back on topic?

[jonathanm1978]

I wasn't saying the costs are passed on to the other southernlinc subs. I said it is written off as an operating expense for the southern company as a whole and passed off to the millions of "customers" that have no choice but to purchase their power from southern (short of building their own power generator)

 

 

You're the one who said they do this. I countered.

Good for you. Can we get back on topic?

 

 

If the topic should stay on path, then why say things you can't back-up with evidence or internal information? Don't ask me to get back on topic when you claim they pass on expenses to their 'millions of customers who have no choice'...This site is all about presenting factual information, and this isn't factual to say these things.

[Rawvega]

I don't believe that utility rates for people in western states or brownouts in California (which is what pyroscott quoted) have anything to do with the topic at hand.

[jonathanm1978]

I don't believe that utility rates for people in western states or brownouts in California (which is what pyroscott quoted) have anything to do with the topic at hand.

 

Thanks for that in-depth observation...bandwagon. jumped. on.

 

And it did have something to do with people assuming SoLinc passed on anything to electric consumers. They are two separate entities inside a company...even while using service as an operating expense, the rate plans are comparable to nationwide providers.

 

But hey..I see what you did there..

 

(BTW..what he quoted is the only thing that was there when he quoted it. I edited and added the remaining part into it ...)

[WiWavelength]

The Motorola i930 was an iDEN/GSM hybrid, although it only supported 900/1800/1900MHz GSM frequencies. I'm sure that they can definitely construct a hybrid IDEN/WCDMA phone. WCDMA chipsets are a dime a dozen, so it will be relatively cheap.

 

Cheap is one thing. Profitable is something else entirely.

 

SouthernLINC has fewer than 200,000 users. And considering the antiquated iDEN technology and the type of users it is likely to attract, device turnover rate is probably no greater than 50,000 per year. In other words, SouthernLINC provides device manufacturers very little economy of scale. Device procurement is a growing problem that SouthernLINC will face if it refuses to progress from iDEN.

 

AJ

[jonathanm1978]

Cheap is one thing. Profitable is something else entirely.

 

SouthernLINC has fewer than 200,000 users. And considering the antiquated iDEN technology and the type of users it is likely to attract, device turnover rate is probably no greater than 50,000 per year. In other words, SouthernLINC provides device manufacturers very little economy of scale. Device procurement is a growing problem that SouthernLINC will face if it refuses to progress from iDEN.

 

AJ

 

May get to the point that they only offer a certain handset to employees for the PTT (and obviously to external subs if so wanted), and other devices to their subs that aren't PTT but have something like the new Direct Connect Now app that's available for the Qualcomm 8655 chip..

 

??

[bigsnake49]

Cheap is one thing. Profitable is something else entirely.

 

SouthernLINC has fewer than 200,000 users. And considering the antiquated iDEN technology and the type of users it is likely to attract, device turnover rate is probably no greater than 50,000 per year. In other words, SouthernLINC provides device manufacturers very little economy of scale. Device procurement is a growing problem that SouthernLINC will face if it refuses to progress from iDEN.

 

AJ

 

NII will sustain that industry for a while with their 11.4M customers. Motorola is probably selling the handsets at cost if you sign up for their pretty expensive maintenance contracts.

Edited December 6, 2012 by bigsnake49

[WiWavelength]

May get to the point that they only offer a certain handset to employees for the PTT (and obviously to external subs if so wanted), and other devices to their subs that aren't PTT but have something like the new Direct Connect Now app that's available for the Qualcomm 8655 chip..

 

That would entail moving external (i.e. non Southern Company) users onto an MVNO because SouthernLINC really does not have sufficient spectrum to run two airlink technologies concurrently. And that would further diminish the economy of scale and utility -- pun intended -- of the iDEN network.

 

AJ

[jonathanm1978]

That would entail moving external (i.e. non Southern Company) users onto an MVNO because SouthernLINC really does not have sufficient spectrum to run two airlink technologies concurrently. And that would further diminish the economy of scale and utility -- pun intended -- of the iDEN network.

 

AJ

 

I'm curious to see what they do with the supposed "Nationwide solution" that Horsley commented on..maybe that's the MVNO move you mentioned. Then again...I wonder if this is SoLinc pulling a pokerface to see if Sprint might give up some of their towers (maybe they have an offer pending to buy the Sprint iDEN equipment and maybe even try to acquire some towers)...

 

Usually, in what I've seen being on plant sites...they put their towers up on their own property...with 300,000 acres of right-of-way..they have land for towers.

 

Funny thing is...these 800ft tall smokestacks can't have a cell antenna mounted on them -- regulations won't allow it. Wouldn't that be one hell of a tower site..but a pain to work on. But the wiring wouldn't be able to run straight below the stack due to cooling towers and such that are required...

[bigsnake49]

That would entail moving external (i.e. non Southern Company) users onto an MVNO because SouthernLINC really does not have sufficient spectrum to run two airlink technologies concurrently. And that would further diminish the economy of scale and utility -- pun intended -- of the iDEN network.

 

AJ

 

What I would like for them to do is to sell Sprint the portion of SMR spectrum that limits Sprint to less than the 7x7Mhz they have elsewhere. In return Sprint can give them a big discount on LTE data. They can keep IDEN running for as long as they want for their own employees. Every utility runs some kind of LMR system but very few take 3.75x3.75MHz to do so. Too much spectrum for just LMR.

[jonathanm1978]

I know from a business standpoint...AT&T isn't pleased with Southern Company's decisions...so would AT&T go into a (sensible, monetarily feasible) relationship with them on their SoLinc service...not sure..

 

Here's why: Southern is cancelling and not recommitting to hundreds of contracts that they've held with AT&T/formerly Bellsouth for years...they made AT&T come to each plant and pull ALL the copper out..and installed their own Cisco equipment. Now the plants run their own VOIP solutions, except for the few that can't switch over yet...so I bet there's a sour taste there with AT&T and the millions in revenue they lost when Southern Comp said "bye bye"...imagine how many lines a plant has...not including data service...they did away with and are doing away with AT&T completely..they want to do their own in-house telecom. (another instance where I've personally seen that Southern controls everything about it's operations...they dont want anyone to cause them to lose production..so they seemingly want to control every aspect of their operational status...

 

Is there any other utility provider like this around who owns spectrum like they do? I'm curious if there are others..

[bigsnake49]

I know from a business standpoint...AT&T isn't pleased with Southern Company's decisions...so would AT&T go into a (sensible, monetarily feasible) relationship with them on their SoLinc service...not sure..

 

Here's why: Southern is cancelling and not recommitting to hundreds of contracts that they've held with AT&T/formerly Bellsouth for years...they made AT&T come to each plant and pull ALL the copper out..and installed their own Cisco equipment. Now the plants run their own VOIP solutions, except for the few that can't switch over yet...so I bet there's a sour taste there with AT&T and the millions in revenue they lost when Southern Comp said "bye bye"...imagine how many lines a plant has...not including data service...they did away with and are doing away with AT&T completely..they want to do their own in-house telecom. (another instance where I've personally seen that Southern controls everything about it's operations...they dont want anyone to cause them to lose production..so they seemingly want to control every aspect of their operational status...

 

Is there any other utility provider like this around who owns spectrum like they do? I'm curious if there are others..

 

Southern Co, as well as FPL, have already strung many miles of fiber and or microwave, so it makes sense that they would provide their own voice as well. Both utilities also provide data services to other customers. Southern-Telecom has a lot of dark fiber.

[WiWavelength]

What I would like for them to do is to sell Sprint the portion of SMR spectrum that limits Sprint to less than the 7x7Mhz they have elsewhere. In return Sprint can give them a big discount on LTE data. They can keep IDEN running for as long as they want for their own employees. Every utility runs some kind of LMR system but very few take 3.75x3.75MHz to do so. Too much spectrum for just LMR.

 

Let SouthernLINC have Sprint's 2.5 MHz x 2.5 MHz of interleaved SMR 900 MHz spectrum. If the Southern Company wants to keep iDEN running, then it should be in interleaved spectrum that is useless for anything else, not in rebanded and contiguous spectrum.

 

AJ

[jonathanm1978]

Southern Co, as well as FPL, have already strung many miles of fiber and or microwave, so it makes sense that they would provide their own voice as well. Both utilities also provide data services to other customers. Southern-Telecom has a lot of dark fiber.

 

At one time, wasn't there talk of providing public ISP service via electric utility service? I coulda sworn I heard this..

[bigsnake49]

Not a bad idea at all, since Sprint has no use for it anyway. Maybe they can swap?

 

I know that the control channel for IDEN (PCH?) has to be located in the 800 SMR spectrum. At least that was a requirement way back when.

Edited December 6, 2012 by bigsnake49

[iansltx]

At one time, wasn't there talk of providing public ISP service via electric utility service? I coulda sworn I heard this..

 

BPL was tried, and there were interference isues, so it was dropped.

 

Also, some states have made it illegal for the utilities to provide residential 'net service. You can thank the telecom giants for that one.

[WiWavelength]

Not a bad idea at all, since Sprint has no use for it anyway. Maybe they can swap?

 

Offering up SMR 900 MHz spectrum might also be a good mitigation strategy to employ against those SMR 800 MHz incumbents (e.g. Preferred Wireless, License Acquisitions, TeleBEEPER) that want to be granted a chunk out of Sprint's rebanded SMR 800 MHz allotment in several markets. If those incumbents are not spectrum speculators and truly want to construct viable networks, then they should be happy to receive fully 2.5 MHz x 2.5 MHz of SMR 900 MHz spectrum. On the other hand, if they are spectrum speculators just looking for a payday from Sprint, then their refusal should reveal their true colors to the FCC.

 

AJ

[jonathanm1978]

BPL was tried, and there were interference isues, so it was dropped.

 

Also, some states have made it illegal for the utilities to provide residential 'net service. You can thank the telecom giants for that one.

 

Or thank the same ones who allowed AT&T to scoop up Cingular, Bellsouth, South-Cent Bell...etc and become a large AT&T once again..just like they used to be before being forced to break-up in the 80's or so...whenever it was...

 

I know I've often wondered..where would we be today if the cellular carriers hadn't gone the way of the dinosaur and left us with only a handful of options..

Is this why MVNO's are thriving and becoming the talk of the town again?

 

I remember walking into my first cingular store in 1996, buying a pager...and having my $9 bill a month. Then I decided to get that big Nokia Cingular phone...5155 or whatever it was...

Motorola startracs...those little green-glowing screens...and the snazzy leather cases that never lasted more than a month and had pieces of torn leather hanging off of them...

 

My (then) girlfriend...now my wife...beeping me to come over for..*ahem* .....yeah. We've been married for 15 years as of June 6, 2013...oh the things we've seen..and done.

[digiblur]

 

BPL was tried, and there were interference isues, so it was dropped.

 

Also, some states have made it illegal for the utilities to provide residential 'net service. You can thank the telecom giants for that one.

 

Cox and ATT tried that with Lafayette fiber. So glad to see they won that and rolled out the fiber but it did slow their rollout. Awesome symmetrical pricing with no caps and no matter your speed tier you can connect to anyone else on the fiber at 100/100. Cool stuff to copy files to your buddy across town at 100 megabit.

 

Sent from a little old Note 2

 

 

[iansltx]

Cox and ATT tried that with Lafayette fiber. So glad to see they won that and rolled out the fiber but it did slow their rollout. Awesome symmetrical pricing with no caps and no matter your speed tier you can connect to anyone else on the fiber at 100/100. Cool stuff to copy files to your buddy across town at 100 megabit.

 

Sent from a little old Note 2

 

I'm glad LUS succeeded as well. For wireline broadband infrastructure, it makes sense to allow the electrical utility to put stuff in if people want it.

[WiWavelength]

I'm glad LUS succeeded as well. For wireline broadband infrastructure, it makes sense to allow the electrical utility to put stuff in if people want it.

 

The "information superhighway" is a cliché dating back to the 1990s, but it really is an all too appropriate term. The Internet is the Interstate Highway System of today -- both economic engines. But we did not allow the private sector to construct the Interstate Highway System, then restrict access to it in order to maximize private sector profits. That we do so with broadband Internet access is shameful and shows a decided lack of foresight.

 

I think that we will eventually see the error in our ways and take back public control from the telecom oligopolists. But it could take decades of regulation and litigation -- and that is just sad for this country.

 

AJ

[iansltx]

The "information superhighway" is a cliché dating back to the 1990s, but it really is an all too appropriate term. The Internet is the Interstate Highway System of today -- both economic engines. But we did not allow the private sector to construct the Interstate Highway System, then restrict access to it in order to maximize private sector profits. That we do so with broadband Internet access is shameful and shows a decided lack of foresight.

 

I think that we will eventually see the error in our ways and take back public control from the telecom oligopolists. But it could take decades of regulation and litigation -- and that is just sad for this country.

 

AJ

 

The question is where you draw the line. In rural areas, do you run fiber to everyone's home? If not, you'll be using wireless. Who should run that wireless infrastructure? I'm sure many in this area would be fine with paying the local electric co-op $XX per month for fiber, plus another $XX for ISP and/or video service from either the co-op or someone else, but can that model work better than the shaky ground that has been UTOPIA for the last few years? Dunno.

[Bob Newhart]

The question is where you draw the line. In rural areas, do you run fiber to everyone's home? If not, you'll be using wireless. Who should run that wireless infrastructure? I'm sure many in this area would be fine with paying the local electric co-op $XX per month for fiber, plus another $XX for ISP and/or video service from either the co-op or someone else, but can that model work better than the shaky ground that has been UTOPIA for the last few years? Dunno.

 

This is what is happening in rural Washington State counties, they have better internet options and speeds than less rural city/town dwellers.

 

http://www.gcpud.org/customerService/broadbandNetwork/available.html - Grant County, WA

They say "Grant PUD is deploying broadband network to the people of Grant County. Once complete, all county residents will have access to a high speed Internet connection."

ISP options for the PUD service, http://www.gcpud.org/customerService/broadbandNetwork/connect.html

[Boosted20V]

The "information superhighway" is a cliché dating back to the 1990s, but it really is an all too appropriate term. The Internet is the Interstate Highway System of today -- both economic engines. But we did not allow the private sector to construct the Interstate Highway System, then restrict access to it in order to maximize private sector profits. That we do so with broadband Internet access is shameful and shows a decided lack of foresight.

 

I think that we will eventually see the error in our ways and take back public control from the telecom oligopolists. But it could take decades of regulation and litigation -- and that is just sad for this country.

 

AJ

 

Well put, very well put.