Google becoming a wireless carrier?

[silverhawknike]

I doubt any Google network, Dish network, or Google/Dish network will be organically grown from the ground up. They will either purchase an existing network or do a hosted network deal with Sprint, or someone else. At least that is what I believe.

 

Robert

 

Ur right, Dish now wanted to buy MetroPCS xD

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324556304578123691891404714.html

[centermedic]

Ur right, Dish now wanted to buy MetroPCS xD

http://online.wsj.co...1891404714.html

The plot thickens!

[iansltx]

In my (informed) opinion, if a Google + Dish network goes forward, it will be exclusively LTE. No other standards are certified for that band class (AWS-4 in this case, plus whatever else Echostar picks up), and the other data-focused/data-only standards (EvDO, DC-HSPA+) don't measure up in terms of bits per Hz capacity.

 

So, think Clearwire, but with better spectrum, FD-LTE (a 20x20 nationwide channel, like Verizon has done in 700MHz except with less coverage and double the spectral capacity) and more Google involvement. I wouldn't be surprised if this spectrum got hosted on Sprint's NV architecture for a rapid deployment, though mobile coverage would be limited to bigger cities for awhile, because:

 

1) Mobile coverage on AWS-4 will be a noticeable bit less, all else equal, than PCS, though

2) if you're covering an urban area your PCS sites are spaced for capacity rather than coverage anyway, so you can drop in AWS-4 equipment and still have a full-coverage network

 

I'll be the contrarian here and say that AWS-4 alone IS enough spectrum to deploy a nationwide network, or at least an urban-focused every-part-of-the-US one. 20MHz FD-LTE is nothing to sneeze at, and the spectrum is high enough frequency that network capacity issues will be slower to come than, say, VZW or AT&T's 700MHz deployments (t the expense of reduced coverage per site). Plus, if Google+Dish has capacity issues, Clearwire is just a phone call away

[UndeadNexus]

The plot thickens!

The tension rises! I can't wait till next year.

 

Sent from my EVO 3D powered by Jelly Beanz

[Ascertion]

What frequency is Aws-4? Or does this question not make sense? For example Sprints PCs is 1900mhz.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[WiWavelength]

What frequency is Aws-4? Or does this question not make sense? For example Sprints PCs is 1900mhz.

 

AWS-4 spectrum is quite varied. But the Dish S-band satellite spectrum that has been re-classified as AWS-4 spectrum is currently 2000-2020 MHz x 2180-2200 MHz.

 

AJ

[chamb]

AWS-4 spectrum is quite varied. But the Dish S-band satellite spectrum that has been re-classified as AWS-4 spectrum is currently 2000-2020 MHz x 2180-2200 MHz.

 

AJ

 

Looks to me like you could place new antennas and RRU's on all Sprint sites and be operational fairly quick. I ASSUME, (and I am ready for verification or changes to my assumptions), you could connect these new antennas and RRU's to the existing NV cabinet, use the existing NV backhaul, and use Sprint's new Core Switches.

Maybe it may already require some backhaul upgrades? Could this traffic be pulled out and ran to a different Core Switch??

I would also assume that these new Core switches are very smart and could successfully do the proper routing and get the billing correct.

 

I do not believe it is feasible to construct a completely new network. Partnering with somebody is the only way to go and Sprint is the only one with enough correctly spaced cell sites to pull this off at 1900 or higher frequencies.

[iansltx]

Looks to me like you could place new antennas and RRU's on all Sprint sites and be operational fairly quick. I ASSUME, (and I am ready for verification or changes to my assumptions), you could connect these new antennas and RRU's to the existing NV cabinet, use the existing NV backhaul, and use Sprint's new Core Switches.

Maybe it may already require some backhaul upgrades? Could this traffic be pulled out and ran to a different Core Switch??

I would also assume that these new Core switches are very smart and could successfully do the proper routing and get the billing correct.

 

I do not believe it is feasible to construct a completely new network. Partnering with somebody is the only way to go and Sprint is the only one with enough correctly spaced cell sites to pull this off at 1900 or higher frequencies.

 

T-Mobile could do it as well, actually. And they aren't pushing their network modernization quite as much as Sprint is, amrketing wise anyway, but they're doing something similar.

 

That said, Sprint seems to be more wholesale/etc. friendly than TMo at this point (which is in turn more friendly than AT&T, which is more friendly than Verizon).

[Kevster1321]

How many networks/frequencies can sprint host. Could they host Clearwire,lightsquared,dish,and public Safety all at the same time.

[WiWavelength]

How many networks/frequencies can sprint host. Could they host Clearwire,lightsquared,dish,and public Safety all at the same time.

 

After Network Vision installation and legacy deinstallation, most Sprint sites could accommodate two additional panels, some sites only one additional panel, and some sites no additional panels. Moreover, this does not take into account backhaul capacity, cabinet space, nor RRU rack loading.

 

My guess: Sprint will host (or acquire) one other major spectrum source. And Clearwire is far and away the most likely candidate.

 

AJ

[JeffDTD]

Its so rosy to imagine sprint hosting... but given sprint and dish's beef and dish's now outed familiarity with metropcs, this one feels like it will land in tmobile's lap.

 

I would think Son will see this potential new challenger more as a competitor than an ally. Who knows.

[xcharles718]

How much is network hosting going to cost anyway?

[S4GRU]

How much is network hosting going to cost anyway?

 

No way to know. It is completely a negotiated deal.

 

Robert via Samsung Note II via Tapatalk

 

 

[bigsnake49]

Yeah, I just don't see a Dish network hosted on Sprint's NV. Sprint could definitely use the money, but they are not as desperate as they used to be. Lightsquared was a special case when Sprint was cash poor, Clearwire was behaving like they owned the world and the spectrum, absent interference concerns, was lower frequency than Sprint's PCS. I also don't think that Sprint appreciates Dish reportedly snapping up $900M of Clearwire's debt to trade for spectrum.

 

Again, I recommend everybody read Tim Farrar's blog:

 

http://blog.tmfassociates.com/

 

From it:

 

"Over the last 36 hours there has been a constant stream of stories about DISH Network’s negotiations with various players to launch its proposed wireless network, in what appears to be a last ditch attempt to deflect the FCC from its declared intention to impose strict interference conditions on DISH’s spectrum in order to make the H block auctionable.

First we saw reports of DISH’s “exploratory stage” talks with Google, which unsurprisingly led to massive speculation about Google’s desire to get into the wireless business, largely omitting any mention of Google’s previous (financially disastrous) investment in Clearwire, which was motivated solely by a desire to create more competition and cheaper wireless service and had nothing whatsoever to do with enabling Google to become a wireless operator.

Now we’ve seen reports about DISH’s unsuccessful bid over the summer for MetroPCS, as revealed in MetroPCS’s preliminary proxy statement filed last night. We also saw DISH highlighting that 3GPP standardization work has been completed, with the implication that DISH could move forward very quickly if the FCC approved the network without new interference conditions.

However, it seems clear that the FCC is having none of it, with officials briefing that they are close to a decision, which is expected to confirm that the H block will be auctioned for high power use and therefore the lower part of DISH’s uplink band will face significant powwer restrictions. In other words, the FCC is placing a higher priority on ensuring Sprint has sufficient LTE spectrum (i.e. can extend its 5x5MHz G block LTE network to a 10x10MHz network) and moving forward with an auction of the H block to raise $1B+ than they are on trusting DISH to become a new entrant in the wireless market.

In light of the Sprint-Softbank and TMobile-MetroPCS deals, the FCC has achieved its goal of having four viable players in the US wireless market, and so presumably does not see as much need to encourage a new entrant. Indeed I would expect the FCC would be relatively content to see the DISH spectrum go to AT&T, if it could then “encourage” AT&T to sell some of its PCS spectrum to Sprint (along the lines of Verizon’s AWS spectrum deal with TMobile). We might even see a similar “swap” in the PCS band between TMobile and Sprint (with Sprint getting more of the spectrum and paying some cash to TMobile) as an alternative to a potential rival Sprint bid for MetroPCS. After all, TMobile has far more spectrum per subscriber than any of the other three major players (if Clearwire’s holdings are excluded)."

 

Interesting!!!

Edited November 19, 2012 by bigsnake49

[JeffDTD]

Sounds like Charlie Ergen drives a very hard bargain and it may just all blow up in his face.

 

If true, its better that the fcc be more inclined to bet on a carrier vs. a non carrier promising to get in the game....Spectrumco's cash grab considering

[bigsnake49]

I would like to think that the part about the FCC wanting to generate $1B+ for the treasury from the sale of PCS-H is true. Dish's accumulation of the AWS-4 spectrum did not generate a penny for the feds. I think that they are pretty mad that people generate profits by speculating on spectrum. If they had their druthers they would make Dish pay the equivalent of what a 20x20 allocation would have brought either in the PCS or AWS auction. I don't like the backdoor way that Dish obtained their spectrum.

[WiWavelength]

Its so rosy to imagine sprint hosting... but given sprint and dish's beef...

 

As the saying goes, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

 

Sprint and Dish are butting heads over interference concerns because 1) Sprint paid for BAS (Broadcast Auxiliary Service) relocation to clear the downlinks of both the PCS G and PCS/AWS-2 H blocks, the latter of which is directly adjacent to Dish's S-band/AWS-4 uplink and 2) Sprint is concerned about mobile transmitters in Dish's S-band/AWS-4 uplink interfering with reception of PCS G and/or PCS/AWS-2 H downlinks.

 

I do not pretend to know the outcome of this dispute, but Sprint and Dish could better coordinate plans and ameliorate concerns if they were partners, Sprint hosting Dish's spectrum.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

We might even see a similar “swap” in the PCS band between TMobile and Sprint (with Sprint getting more of the spectrum and paying some cash to TMobile) as an alternative to a potential rival Sprint bid for MetroPCS. After all, TMobile has far more spectrum per subscriber than any of the other three major players (if Clearwire’s holdings are excluded)."

 

Hmm, where have I heard that before, maybe about six weeks ago?

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...-from-metropcs/

 

I tease, I tease. I will put my knowledge of spectrum licensing and strategy up against that of anyone. But spectrum valuation -- the financial wheeling and dealing -- is not my area of expertise. In that regard, Tim Farrar is my go to source. I trust his acumen without a doubt and believe him an unbiased source.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

Hmm, where have I heard that before, maybe about six weeks ago?

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...-from-metropcs/

 

I tease, I tease. I will put my knowledge of spectrum licensing and strategy up against that of anyone. But spectrum valuation -- the financial wheeling and dealing -- is not my area of expertise. In that regard, Tim Farrar is my go to source. I trust his acumen without a doubt and believe him an unbiased source.

 

AJ

 

I think Tim knows a lot of the players and the insiders in this industry and his blog is never boring:).

 

The Wall Street Journal also chimed in on the FCC keeping the PCS H on the auction block:

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324735104578123394143197134.html

 

(Subscription required unless you Google "FCC Close To Granting Dish Spectrum Rule Change" and thenfollow the first link:))

[bigsnake49]

Well it looks that the FCC will be protecting the H block and will be auctioning it in 2013. Yay Sprint!!!! Between the H block, USCC spectrum buy, possible divestitures from the Metro/T-Mobile merger and possible Leap spectrum buys, Sprint will be set for years! They can then possibly buy back some of their spectrum from Clearwire and they will be set for the next decade or so.

[iansltx]

Count me in for hoping that PCS H ends up encumbrance-free. Changing the duplex gap by 5MHz may mean a revised 3GPP standard, but 3GPP has been willing to carve out band classes for smaller operators than DISH could end up being, so I don't think it's too big of a deal.

 

If everything;s done correctly, then Sprint will have enough spectrum outside PCS A-F to have 10x10 FD-LTE nationwide, DISH will have enough for 20x20 FD-LTE nationwide, and Sprint will have PCS A-F, SMR and EBS/BRS to deploy even more LTE + CDMA.

 

Maybe Sprint will offer subsidized hosting to get DISH on board with their strategy. We shall see...I think T-Mobile is slightly too footprint-limited for Ergen's ambitions.

[DaQue]

I don't know if Sprint will do 10x10 even if they have room. I get the feeling they think 5x5 is fast enough and would just do more 5x5s to keep everyone with at least 6-8 Mbps with 25Mbps peak like their web page says for 4G LTE. That would cost them bragging rights and the other big 3 carriers would jump all over that in their ads but 6-8Mbps with 25Mbps peaks sure sounds good to me.

[MacinJosh]

I don't know if Sprint will do 10x10 even if they have room. I get the feeling they think 5x5 is fast enough and would just do more 5x5s to keep everyone with at least 6-8 Mbps with 25Mbps peak like their web page says for 4G LTE. That would cost them bragging rights and the other big 3 carriers would jump all over that in their ads but 6-8Mbps with 25Mbps peaks sure sounds good to me.

 

Sprint is going to do Carrier Aggregation with LTE Advanced, so doing 2 5x5's aggregated together is just as powerful as 1 10x10.

[DaQue]

That's pretty cool. I wonder though what would people complain about more if their speedtest.net scores would drop from 50 to only 6 at times or if their results were more even but never topped 25? Heck I guess they will gripe both ways. It sounds like there is no real down side, almost too good to be true. Would Carrier Aggregation require new phones like LTE 800?

[iansltx]

That's pretty cool. I wonder though what would people complain about more if their speedtest.net scores would drop from 50 to only 6 at times or if their results were more even but never topped 25? Heck I guess they will gripe both ways. It sounds like there is no real down side, almost too good to be true. Would Carrier Aggregation require new phones like LTE 800?

 

CA is a feature of LTE-A. No current phone supports LTE-A So yes, you'll need a new phone to take advantage of that.