Everything 800mhz (1xA, LTE, coverage, timeline, etc)

[digiblur]

Just a quick clarification, how do you know that the PN mismatch is due to Network Vision? Over the years, I have encountered a few rare sites that use different PNs for CDMA1X and EV-DO. But I have not encountered any PN changes associated with Network Vision.

 

The mismatch didn't happen until after it was 3G accepted.

[Deval]

This may have been asked before, if so please forgive me, but at what point is an NV tower actually broadcasting 1xA? Only after 3G upgrades or on every upgraded tower?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

I'm thinking they will broadcast once all the upgrades go into place, and they have cleared sufficient iDEN traffic, or the network is shut down.

[WiWavelength]

The mismatch didn't happen until after it was 3G accepted.

 

Agreed, that does suggest causation, rather than correlation.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

 

 

Didn't Robert report successful SMR to PCS handoffs of voice calls in his testing in Kansas or Texas? I know that I run into hard PCS to PCS handoffs that drop calls going from NV to legacy in West Michigan, so I'm going to guess that is what you are seeing.

 

It was in Waco. Yes, I did report that. However, it was not scientific. I was parked on CDMA 800 Channel 476. I initiated a phone call and went back to the Engineering screen. It changed to a PCS channel. I assumed at some point during the call, it handed off from SMR to PCS. But it's possible that it changed when I went into my dialer before the call was placed.

 

I wished I had done more testing back then. But I jumped to a conclusion that hand off had occurred. I haven't had CDMA 800 since.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

[jefbal99]

It was in Waco. Yes, I did report that. However, it was not scientific. I was parked on CDMA 800 Channel 476. I initiated a phone call and went back to the Engineering screen. It changed to a PCS channel. I assumed at some point during the call, it handed off from SMR to PCS. But it's possible that it changed when I went into my dialer before the call was placed.

 

I wished I had done more testing back then. But I jumped to a conclusion that hand off had occurred. I haven't had CDMA 800 since.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

 

Do we have any highly technical users in the Chicagoland area that could conduct some testing?

[arunningpir8]

A large portion of southern Indiana seems to be covered by 800mhz now. I have been to Greenwood and east of Columbus and all around those areas, and of course including Columbus I have had 800mhz. They have really been adjusting the panels a lot lately though because when I first got 800mhz the signal was only slightly better but now where I had no service I am getting a solid 3-4 bars whereas in the very beginning I got maybe 1-2. So they are definitely tweaking it a lot still.

 

The 22412 SID covers Indianapolis, Bloomington and one other area I cant think of off the top of my head and so far all around those areas I seem to be getting it. It seems very widespread for me now and I have been able to experience the full benefit that is Sprints new network

[koiulpoi]

It was in Waco. Yes, I did report that. However, it was not scientific. I was parked on CDMA 800 Channel 476. I initiated a phone call and went back to the Engineering screen. It changed to a PCS channel. I assumed at some point during the call, it handed off from SMR to PCS. But it's possible that it changed when I went into my dialer before the call was placed.

 

I wished I had done more testing back then. But I jumped to a conclusion that hand off had occurred. I haven't had CDMA 800 since.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

My phone, while parked on 800 MHz, will sometimes jump back to PCS while it's connecting the call. Now, I've only seen this happen twice, where the 800 MHz signal was around -102 and the PCS signal was around -63, and also using Digiblur's PRL for service not officially launched...

 

Edit: That being said, I also experienced (on the same signal on the same sector/site), that my phone refused to jump back to PCS, even with the 800 MHz signal being unusable. The call got more and more garbled, faded, and then dropped completely - in an area fully covered by PCS. Only happened once. Will have to test again.

[malicenfz]

I just got LTE in my house in El Monte guess it for turned on here too.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[deflate7525]

My phone, while parked on 800 MHz, will sometimes jump back to PCS while it's connecting the call. Now, I've only seen this happen twice, where the 800 MHz signal was around -102 and the PCS signal was around -63, and also using Digiblur's PRL for service not officially launched...

 

Edit: That being said, I also experienced (on the same signal on the same sector/site), that my phone refused to jump back to PCS, even with the 800 MHz signal being unusable. The call got more and more garbled, faded, and then dropped completely - in an area fully covered by PCS. Only happened once. Will have to test again.

 

Well if your phone is using the stronger signal is that not exactly how it should work?

[koiulpoi]

Well if your phone is using the stronger signal is that not exactly how it should work?

It did in the first instance, and not in the second. Both cases had a 1900 MHz signal of better than -70 dBm, and an 800 MHz signal of worse than -100 dBm. Very odd if you ask me.

[WiWavelength]

Well if your phone is using the stronger signal is that not exactly how it should work?

 

No, that is not how CDMA1X operates. It does not switch carrier channels simply because one has a greater signal strength than another. Once on a traffic channel, the only reason why a voice call might switch carrier channels is if the network directs it to do so. And that explains why a poor CDMA1X 800 carrier channel might get switched to a strong CDMA1X 1900 carrier channel upon traffic channel origination.

 

For now, chalk up koiulpoi's inconsistent experience to using an engineered PRL and CDMA1X 800 not being officially launched yet. Carrier channel management and handoffs will get better.

 

AJ

[supert0nes]

We've always knew as much, but it's nice to get a direct quote from Sprint. Maybe we've already had this direct quote from them. But to me this says even if they spin up VoLTE, 1x will stay on 800/1900

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-strikes-m2m-deal-u-blox-targets-atts-2g-shutdown/2013-04-22

 

Sprint said that it "believes M2M customers should be able to choose or combine 2G, 3G and 4G LTE capabilities, depending on their particular requirements. Sprint expects to maintain its 2G network capability for the long term as part of its overall Network Vision strategy."

[Fraydog]

1X can be run in the background for a long time. Since Sprint is deploying software defined radios, they can keep a minimum of the CDMA core in place for M2M even as they transition the voice traffic on the network to VoLTE.

 

For the most part, it does help Sprint out further to reduce the size of the CDMA core, so much money can be saved in the long run by doing that.

[Cubbiefan82]

looks like 800 is back on for me, I have missed it since they turned it off after testing it in my area. I hope it stays on, I am getting solid four bars when I a normally get 2-3 bars on 1900

[Mobilesolutions]

Most full build sites have a 800smr RRU installed. It has also been found that the Ericsson RRUs are dual tech capable with a firmware upgrade. Meaning 800 lte and cdma at the same time. Now what has to be done in the cabinets, I do not know that side of things unfortunately. I assume sone sort of line card has to be installed.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

I've heard there is no need for a line card, just hit the tower with software and it's live with 800.

[lynyrd65]

I've heard there is no need for a line card, just hit the tower with software and it's live with 800.

 

Sure would be nice to see that happen on July 1.

[Mobilesolutions]

 

 

Sure would be nice to see that happen on July 1.

 

Only a fantasty that we could see 800 Lte by summers end. We would be lucky to see phones that support it by fall, and even luckier to see the towers broadcasting it by the end of the year. My contract ends in October, I'd really like to see something by then to make the decision to stay with Sprint easy.

 

My brother was In Dallas last week for school and reported that he regularly did not have Lte and that 3G was no better than in Tulsa, I find this semi dissapointing considering Dallas is one of the most densely deployed city so far.

[lynyrd65]

Only a fantasty that we could see 800 Lte by summers end. We would be lucky to see phones that support it by fall, and even luckier to see the towers broadcasting it by the end of the year. My contract ends in October, I'd really like to see something by then to make the decision to stay with Sprint easy.

 

My brother was In Dallas last week for school and reported that he regularly did not have Lte and that 3G was no better than in Tulsa, I find this semi dissapointing considering Dallas is one of the most densely deployed city so far.

 

As you know I wasn't thrilled with it either. After seeing our LTE in Tulsa and how far sites can reach, I'm beginning to think what I saw in DFW was a product of their dense urbanization that we don't see as much in Tulsa.

 

I moved in and out of coverage in DFW where there seemed to be cell sites on each block but in Tulsa I can catch a signal from a site almost 10 miles away with two closer legacy Sprint sites in-between. I have a feeling the deployment even with just 1900 will turn out to be much less spotty here than DFW. So, having been there and seen that dissappointment I'm still excited for NV in Tulsa.

[Mobilesolutions]

 

 

As you know I wasn't thrilled with it either. After seeing our LTE in Tulsa and how far sites can reach, I'm beginning to think what I saw in DFW was a product of their dense urbanization that we don't see as much in Tulsa.

 

I moved in and out of coverage in DFW where there seemed to be cell sites on each block but in Tulsa I can catch a signal from a site almost 10 miles away with two closer legacy Sprint sites in-between. I have a feeling the deployment even with just 1900 will turn out to be much less spotty here than DFW. So, having been there and seen that dissappointment I'm still excited for NV in Tulsa.

 

Yes I think 1900 will work much better in Tulsa than it has in Dallas. If the coverage is the same as our existing 3G footprint it will cover everywhere - some brick structures. My new home is 3/4 mile from a tower over at 61 Sheridan, no calls or texts inside the house till the airvana shows up..

 

On the other hand my friend with Verizon stopped by the other day and had a -74 dBm Lte signal in the center most room of the house.

 

It takes sub 1 GHz to get through the brick/stone.

[lynyrd65]

Yes I think 1900 will work much better in Tulsa than it has in Dallas. If the coverage is the same as our existing 3G footprint it will cover everywhere - some brick structures. My new home is 3/4 mile from a tower over at 61 Sheridan, no calls or texts inside the house till the airvana shows up..

 

On the other hand my friend with Verizon stopped by the other day and had a -74 dBm Lte signal in the center most room of the house.

 

It takes sub 1 GHz to get through the brick/stone.

 

Sometimes even that is insufficient. My US Cellular LTE hotspot sometimes struggles to get signal indoors even though it runs at 700mhz.

 

What is needed is both site density and low band spectrum which is why Verizon might work so well there. As you may know Verizon has to run its 3G network in the 1900 band in Tulsa which forced them to build out a dense network. I have seen Verizon LTE panels on most of the VZW sites I drive past in Tulsa. So where Verizon would have used only a few 850 sites in other markets with some 700 LTE we have a vast number of Verizon 1900 sites with many having LTE. That means dense LTE coverage even deep in buldings. This, I think is a unique feature to VZW in our area.

 

That being said, your friend may have had -74dbm of LTE, but I bet he had -109dbm or worse of eHRPD due to VZW's PCS 3G network which won't help for calls and texts either.

 

I expect Sprint's 1x 800 network will give Sprint an edge over other providers in voice coverage due to its site density. However it seems less likely we will see these great SMR coverage gains with our Galaxy S 3's. Mine won't pick up a cellular 850 signal before a PCS signal ever. In areas everyone else sees decent US Cellular roaming signal I see "no service". At least I get better Sprint native PCS signal.

[Mobilesolutions]

Sometimes even that is insufficient. My US Cellular LTE hotspot sometimes struggles to get signal indoors even though it runs at 700mhz.

 

What is needed is both site density and low band spectrum which is why Verizon might work so well there. As you may know Verizon has to run its 3G network in the 1900 band in Tulsa which forced them to build out a dense network. I have seen Verizon LTE panels on most of the VZW sites I drive past in Tulsa. So where Verizon would have used only a few 850 sites in other markets with some 700 LTE we have a vast number or Verizon 1900 sites with many having LTE. That means dense LTE coverage even deep in buldings. This, I think is a unique feature to VZW in our area.

 

That being said, your friend may have had -74dbm of LTE, but I bet he had -109dbm or worse of eHRPD due to VZW's PCS 3G network which won't help for calls and texts either.

 

Yes Verizon's in town call performance is a typical complaint of his.. although he is unfamiliar with frequency and attributes it to the fact that Vzw "sucks", granted he is a Realtor as well and does most of his business indoors.

 

I would be grouchy as well if i paid $390.00 for 3 lines monthly, had tiered data, and still couldn't make calls.

 

Yes i agree, density is key for indoor use.

[digiblur]

We use VZW 850 quite a bit around town here in our area, so I have had several chances to compare the S3 and Note2 on 850 roaming. The Note2 does have a slight edge on signal over the S3 but it isn't a whole lot and roaming works fine where we have used it in the past on other devices. So I figure 800SMR will be fine and quite an awesome upgrade for our account with an S3, EVO LTE, and Note2 on it.

 

On another note, I'm quite amazed at VZW's rollout of LTE and 850 in the rural areas here. We were in an area over the weekend with only iDen, VZW, and AT&T for many many miles. I was on roaming of course and a friend of mine had LTE all over the place...but of course he's scared to use it too much. Like buying a sports car and keeping it in the garage.

[supert0nes]

The end is nigh! 60 day notice for iDen shutdown!

 

http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2579&view_id=3515

 

News Releases

01 May 2013

 

Sprint on Schedule to Shut Down iDEN Network Within 60 Days

 

OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (BUSINESS WIRE), May 01, 2013 - Sprint (NYSE: S) today announced that its plans to shut down the iDEN Nextel National Network remain on schedule for the end of June, as originally announced in May of last year.

The last full day of iDEN service will be June 29; shutdown begins first thing Sunday, June 30, and will continue throughout the day. iDEN devices will then no longer receive voice service – including 911 calls – or data service. Sprint will shut down switch locations in rapid succession on June 30, followed by powering down equipment and eliminating backhaul at each cell site.

Sprint announced plans on May 29, 2012 to cease service on the iDEN Nextel National Network as early as June 30, 2013, as part of its Network Vision plan – a series of network updates designed to offer next-generation network capabilities to customers.

Since then, Sprint has been aggressively notifying customers to migrate from the iDEN Nextel National Network to avoid service disruptions. The notifications have included customer letters, legal notifications, and email reminders. Sprint added iDEN shutdown reminder text messages and will use other communications tactics during the network’s final days of operation.

“Our shutdown communications are meant to give customers more than enough lead time to plan their migration,” said Bob Azzi, senior vice president-Network. “This has been especially important for public safety, first responders, health care users and others who rely on the service to protect and preserve people’s lives. We strongly urge customers to migrate now, rather than wait until the last minute.”

Customers who migrate to Sprint Direct Connect experience three times the push-to-talk coverage compared to iDEN, international direct connect reach to Latin American countries, and 3G broadband data capabilities.

“SprintDirect Connect is a gold standard in push-to-talk,” Azzi said. “It comes with the broadband capabilities that businesses and public safety pros need for business applications, social media, and future push-to-X capabilities on Sprint’s broadband CDMA network.”

The transition of Sprint’s push-to-talk service from iDEN to CDMA is part of the company’s Network Vision plans. Network Vision is expected to add net economic value for Sprint from reduced roaming costs, cell site reduction, backhaul efficiencies, more efficient use of capital, and energy cost savings.

About Sprint Nextel

Sprint Nextel offers a comprehensive range of wireless and wireline communications services bringing the freedom of mobility to consumers, businesses and government users. Sprint Nextel served more than 55 million customers at the end of the first quarter of 2013 and is widely recognized for developing, engineering and deploying innovative technologies, including the first wireless 4G service from a national carrier in the United States; offering industry-leading mobile data services, leading prepaid brands including Virgin Mobile USA, Boost Mobile, and Assurance Wireless; instant national and international push-to-talk capabilities; and a global Tier 1 Internet backbone. The American Customer Satisfaction Index rated Sprint No. 1 among all national carriers in customer satisfaction and most improved, across all 47 industries, during the last four years. Newsweek ranked Sprint No. 3 in both its 2011 and 2012 Green Rankings, listing it as one of the nation’s greenest companies, the highest of any telecommunications company. You can learn more and visit Sprint at www.sprint.com or www.facebook.com/sprint and www.twitter.com/sprint.

[MacinJosh]

The end is nigh! 60 day notice for iDen shutdown!

 

http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2579&view_id=3515

 

They are committed to killing Nextel on time. That's good news for Network Vision.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

[digiblur]

Bring on the 800SMR CDMA and LTE!!