Everything 800mhz (1xA, LTE, coverage, timeline, etc)

[uh60james]

I know Southernlinc owns some 800 spectrum in the South-East that Sprint's owns in the rest of the country.  Consequently Sprint is a little short of sub-800 spectrum in areas* of that region.  I don't know if it would be an option for Sprint to purchase that spectrum or not. 

 

*Been described to me as parts of the panhandle, Georgia, and Alabama.

I do not think SouthernLinc will sell.  Unfortunate for those of us in the area.

 

My employer used to issue SouthernLinc PTT devices but has been on VZW for some time.  I actually do not know of anyone who uses SoutherLinc.  I'm sure Southern Company relies on them pretty heavily for their operations though.

[WiWavelength]

So, not sure if it has been asked or has been said, but do we know who else owns 800 MHz spectrum nationwide in the US, and if Sprint could possibly purchase some of that spectrum?

 

Well, for Sprint purposes, we have to narrow the discussion to the ESMR portion of SMR 800 MHz.  And no other licensee holds anything remotely close to nationwide ESMR.  It is all just little bits and pieces here and there.

 

AJ

[anthony.spina97]

Well, for Sprint purposes, we have to narrow the discussion to the ESMR portion of SMR 800 MHz.  And no other licensee holds anything remotely close to nationwide ESMR.  It is all just little bits and pieces here and there.

 

AJ

Maybe Sprint could buy up the bits and peices from the different companies that have it? Or at least try to buy it in the areas that Sprint is only gonna be able to put up 3x3 800 LTE?

[WiWavelength]

Maybe Sprint could buy up the bits and peices from the different companies that have it? Or at least try to buy it in the areas that Sprint is only gonna be able to put up 3x3 800 LTE?

 

We intentionally do not write about some of those licensees.  They are spectrum squatters trying to get their licenses included in the rebanding process as a means to extort a buyout from Sprint.  We will not give them any publicity.

 

AJ

[Mobilesolutions]

We intentionally do not write about some of those licensees.  They are spectrum squatters trying to get their licenses included in the rebanding process as a means to extort a buyout from Sprint.  We will not give them any publicity.

 

AJ

There is also a neighboring band just north of Sprints 896-901...if ya know what i mean 

-Will

[bmoses]

anyone else having bad voice quality/issues while on phone calls on 1x800? they switched new towers on around me a few weeks ago and then today another batch got switched over. anytime i make a call while on 1x800 (and have verified that i stayed on 1x800) during the call it goes from sounding great to cutting in and out, to quiet, to even disconnecting. this is with mid 80's or better signal too. not sure if there is an issue with my phone, or something not right with the towers, or just because they are still working in the area or what.

[Mr.Nuke]

anyone else having bad voice quality/issues while on phone calls on 1x800? they switched new towers on around me a few weeks ago and then today another batch got switched over. anytime i make a call while on 1x800 (and have verified that i stayed on 1x800) during the call it goes from sounding great to cutting in and out, to quiet, to even disconnecting. this is with mid 80's or better signal too. not sure if there is an issue with my phone, or something not right with the towers, or just because they are still working in the area or what.

I'm hearing a lot of similar reports from people in Lincoln with the same symptoms and complaining about voice issues all of the sudden. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell me if they were on 1x800 or not, but given what has transpired there recently, odds are fairly good they were.

[LuisBOSS302]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o99qyy6fh0hxtoa/2013-11-27%2020.04.59.png

 

Picked up CDMA 800 inside my house for a couple of secs

[TheForce627]

Found some 1x800 in Bowie MD https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6j5qyohf1yqq2i/Screenshot_2013-11-28-19-25-36.png

[bmoses]

I'm hearing a lot of similar reports from people in Lincoln with the same symptoms and complaining about voice issues all of the sudden. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell me if they were on 1x800 or not, but given what has transpired there recently, odds are fairly good they were.

 

i remember that now too, i didn't remember anyone specifically mentioning 800 and at the time they were getting towers flipped over. i'll run a test with using a PRL that puts 800 at low priority and see if i have the same issue on 1xRTT. 

[gr8nuguy]

i had that issue also, and i know for a fact i was on 1x 800 

[peteyz24]

I have not had any issues with calls on 1x 800.  The weird thing is that most of the time when my phone switches to it the signal is only a few dbm better than pcs.  This I find a bit odd.

[chamb]

I have not had any issues with calls on 1x 800.  The weird thing is that most of the time when my phone switches to it the signal is only a few dbm better than pcs.  This I find a bit odd.

Sounds like your 800 signal is coming from a cell site that is further away than your 1900 site.    If both signals are coming from the same site. normally you will see quite a bit more signal on 800.  I have 800 everywhere and I normally see more than 10db better signal and quite often much more.  Compared to the old legacy 1900 signal, I see around 20 db better level on 800.

Everybody will not see the same exact thing, but when the NV upgrades are done, the 800 should make a very big difference on levels.   I see an -86 level at several spots that were on the fringe of the old Legacy network and dropped calls because of the old -105 receive level.

[dmchssc]

 

 I have 800 everywhere and I normally see more than 10db better signal and quite often much more.  Compared to the old legacy 1900 signal, I see around 20 db better level on 800.

 This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but can someone explain why this is? The better propagation characteristics should  theoretically only give a 6-9 dBm boost to signal strength. The difference is just over 7 dBm in free space: 20*log(800) - 20*log(1900).

 

Is it because the effect of building/obstruction penetration is that significant?

[WiWavelength]

 This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but can someone explain why this is? The better propagation characteristics should  theoretically only give a 6-9 dBm boost to signal strength. The difference is just over 7 dBm in free space: 20*log(800) - 20*log(1900).

 

Is it because the effect of building/obstruction penetration is that significant?

 

Yes, your free space path loss math is correct, though for sake of simplicity, I usually calculate it like this:  20[log(F1/F2)].  As such, Cellular/SMR/700 has basically a 6-9 dB advantage in received power from the antenna aperture over the equivalent in PCS/AWS.

 

But free space propagation is a good approximation only very close in with clear LOS to a site.  Various empirical models have been developed to account for propagation over a non smooth, even obstructed, curved Earth.  And those empirical models are likely to show closer to a 15-20 dB difference between the <1 GHz bands and >1 GHz bands.

 

Of course, one other factor to keep in mind is antenna gain.  This varies from handset to handset, but a common pattern is that the <1 GHz bands have slightly negative antenna gain (e.g. -2 dBi), while the >1 GHz bands have slightly positive antenna gain (e.g. 1 dBi).  So, that can tilt the 15-20 dB difference back the other direction by 3 dB or so.

 

AJ

[ImmerStark]

IIRC the lower bands are also allowed a higher transmit power. So the combination of lower free space path loss, better penetration of obstructions, and higher transmit power will net you a bigger advantage in real life situations.

[WiWavelength]

IIRC the lower bands are also allowed a higher transmit power. So the combination of lower free space path loss, better penetration of obstructions, and higher transmit power will net you a bigger advantage in real life situations.

The higher allowed ERP/EIRP for <1 GHz bands generally does not enter the equation because mobiles do not take advantage of it. If anything, on the mobile side, <1 GHz bands (e.g. 15 dBm) tend to be designed for 5-10 dB lower ERP/EIRP than do >1 GHz bands (e.g. 23 dBm).

 

AJ

[jreuschl]

I'm hearing a lot of similar reports from people in Lincoln with the same symptoms and complaining about voice issues all of the sudden. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell me if they were on 1x800 or not, but given what has transpired there recently, odds are fairly good they were.

Interesting. Yes. I just had 800 added to the tower near my condo in the Milwaukee area. Before NV I had 1 bar on 1900, 3-4 on 1x800, except signal seems very choppy, worse than the lower 1900 signal!

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

 

[chamb]

Interesting. Yes. I just had 800 added to the tower near my condo in the Milwaukee area. Before NV I had 1 bar on 1900, 3-4 on 1x800, except signal seems very choppy, worse than the lower 1900 signal!

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

About two weeks ago, my local site was off the air all day.  It gives me a -85 to -86 signal on 800.  When I noticed this site was dead, I looked at what I was then connected too.  Surprisingly I found that two other sites were dropping a good 800 signal in my area. Both were giving me a -87 to -88 signal.  Eventually my normal site was back on the air.  I have absolutely no trouble  with the 800 signal normally or when the preferred site happened to be off the air.  Having 3 signals coming at me from different directions all with almost the same level is working well.  I actually am fairly sure I even have a fourth site available to me too.

On the old legacy system, only one site was really usable and it was not reliable.  Normally had a -103 to -105 signal.  Activating 800 on all the sites near me gave me a signal from all of them.  I was lucky, I was in the middle of several sites.  Great improvement in service for me.   Not everybody will have this experience.

[eljayyy91]

1x 800 has been a god send for my mom. Used to be a dead spot sorta fixed with an airave. Now my phone ignores it and works just fine lol. No drops even in the basement thats from having to be outside to talk at all.

[peteyz24]

Sounds like your 800 signal is coming from a cell site that is further away than your 1900 site. If both signals are coming from the same site. normally you will see quite a bit more signal on 800. I have 800 everywhere and I normally see more than 10db better signal and quite often much more. Compared to the old legacy 1900 signal, I see around 20 db better level on 800.

Everybody will not see the same exact thing, but when the NV upgrades are done, the 800 should make a very big difference on levels. I see an -86 level at several spots that were on the fringe of the old Legacy network and dropped calls because of the old -105 receive level.

Not possible. There are only 2 sites here and one still runs legacy panels.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[TheForce627]

Not possible. There are only 2 sites here and one still runs legacy panels.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I've experienced the same thing. Seems like the power is turned down or something

[anthony.spina97]

About two weeks ago, my local site was off the air all day.  It gives me a -85 to -86 signal on 800.  When I noticed this site was dead, I looked at what I was then connected too.  Surprisingly I found that two other sites were dropping a good 800 signal in my area. Both were giving me a -87 to -88 signal.  Eventually my normal site was back on the air.  I have absolutely no trouble  with the 800 signal normally or when the preferred site happened to be off the air.  Having 3 signals coming at me from different directions all with almost the same level is working well.  I actually am fairly sure I even have a fourth site available to me too.

On the old legacy system, only one site was really usable and it was not reliable.  Normally had a -103 to -105 signal.  Activating 800 on all the sites near me gave me a signal from all of them.  I was lucky, I was in the middle of several sites.  Great improvement in service for me.   Not everybody will have this experience.

Now if only Charlotte can start getting some 1x 800 love, along with the iPhone being opened up to it

[TheForce627]

In MD and I found some more 1x800. I'm close to the redskins stadium during the game and the tower is really overloaded and my phone went to 1x800. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r833y9i4e6iuyve/Screenshot_2013-12-01-21-33-46.png

[dmaxx67]

alright so Sprint is going to setup voice/data 1x on 800 in their first upgrade, then push lte onto 800 on their next run. Now is 3g data just going to be left on 1900 from now til the end of time.

Also what is max data rate for 1x