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ReyBanz

Network Vision/LTE - East Michigan Market (Detroit/Flint/Ann Arbor/Tri-Cities)

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10 hours ago, mikejeep said:

 

I'm still 50/50 on whether or not these are a glitch (scan?) or actual connections (however brief they may be). I kept seeing quick flashes of B17 in an area with no usable Sprint signal so I took my AT&T test phone over there and confirmed the PCI/GCI/TAC of B17 there, and it matched what I was seeing on my Sprint phone. On at least one occasion I did have an active data connection that held for longer than usual as well.

 

My thinking (whatever that's worth) is if you get an actual legitimate GCI, you connected. If not, it was a scan.

 

(Might be worth moving this discussion to the SCP thread or a new one, this isn't specific to MI nor do I want to clog up the thread..)

 

-Mike

The issue for me is that it happens to me regularly in SCP.  But never in NSG or Engineering Screen.  Just SCP.  And I monitor NSG a lot.  And I have never seen it do that once.  And NSG is rapidly updating on the fly.  It's not a slow data refresher.

Robert

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The issue for me is that it happens to me regularly in SCP.  But never in NSG or Engineering Screen.  Just SCP.  And I monitor NSG a lot.  And I have never seen it do that once.  And NSG is rapidly updating on the fly.  It's not a slow data refresher.
Robert
NSG loads the Qualcomm debug interface and somehow tricks it into outputting locally instead of via USB (possibly some kind of kernel loopback device?). If you connect the phone to your computer and run software such as Actix or TEMS, then load NSG, the computer loses the connection. Likewise, if NSG is running, it prevents Qualcomm diagnostics over USB and the software can't find the phone. As soon as NSG exits, the phone appears.

So NSG is getting its data directly from the modem. The engineering screens may be similar and bypass the Android API? SCP has to wait for Android to refresh its modem data, which seemingly isn't an atomic operation. I'm curious if you see it in other apps that use the Android API, such as Cell Mapper or LTE Discovery?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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9 hours ago, ingenium said:

NSG loads the Qualcomm debug interface and somehow tricks it into outputting locally instead of via USB (possibly some kind of kernel loopback device?). If you connect the phone to your computer and run software such as Actix or TEMS, then load NSG, the computer loses the connection. Likewise, if NSG is running, it prevents Qualcomm diagnostics over USB and the software can't find the phone. As soon as NSG exits, the phone appears.

So NSG is getting its data directly from the modem. The engineering screens may be similar and bypass the Android API? SCP has to wait for Android to refresh its modem data, which seemingly isn't an atomic operation. I'm curious if you see it in other apps that use the Android API, such as Cell Mapper or LTE Discovery?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

That's great info.  And coupled with that, it makes me even more convinced there is not an actual connection occurring.  If so, given the way NSG takes directly from the modem, it would be showing that data the instant it was connecting.  Yet it has never happened to me in NSG.  I use Cellmapper a lot in the background.  But I find watching the Cellmapper connection screen difficult to glance at while driving.  So I never monitor it.

Of course, it doesn't seem like it's an SCP error.  The app isn't doing anything wrong, it would just be that these phantom connections are being reported to SCP from Android.  It is contaminating its reporting data when it scans and reports it.  Then SCP populates that data from Android.  Even though a bona fide connection did not actually happen.

Other things that make me think these are not connections...It happens to me with Project Fi SIM too.  If I am connected to Sprint or US Cellular or T-Mobile, it happens to me too and the PLMN ID stays with whomever I was connected to last.  In addition to Sprint, I've seen US Cellular B4, US Cellular B17, US Cellular B41, US Cellular B12 and T-Mobile B5, T-Mobile B26, T-Mobile B41, etc., etc.  I believe Android OS gets some data from these scans, and it doesn't get a new PLMN ID because there was no actual connection.  It reports out the data it received in the scan and mixes stale data that it did not receive, like PLMNID.  Voila.  Of course, all hypothesis on my part.  But it matches what I've seen.

And Project Fi does not roam on AT&T LTE.   And neither does US Cellular nor T-Mobile.  But it freely populates AT&T LTE channel locations all the same.  Because it is in an unlocked every band device and those AT&T channels are being scanned looking for a Sprint, T-Mobile or US Cellular connection.

I am convinced these are other bands scans showing up in the connection data from Android OS.  And the best I can recollect, this only happens when I have a really weak signal and it is actively scanning for anything.  To keep from dropping completely.  And it seems to only affect me when I'm driving and signal intensity and proximity is randomly changing.  Most often in conjunction with band locking in my instances.

The phone is definitely reporting the signals.  And it probably was trying to connect with them.  Much of the information is accurate about what it's reporting, like channel assignment.  Giving us hope that something great is happening.  It's just not a live and usable connection.  Scanning is still ongoing. 

I'm not convinced something good is happening.  We just are seeing a little more behind the scenes of scanning, and misreporting of that data.  I could be wrong.  But I see this error frequently.  Nearly daily.  And sometimes, a dozen times in an hour.  It can be really annoying when trying to locate weak and distant new B26 sites.  Like here in Washington State and over there in Michigan.

Robert

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Well, I just made an exciting discovery. I picked up an iPhone 5s without an active service plan to test bands in my area and guess what I found?! Band 26 in Midtown Detroit. See for yourself! As expected, the site it connected to is only broadcasting a 3mhz channel. This is very exciting but unfortunatly I was standing right next to the site that has multiple B41 channels broadcasting(I'm aware this phone doesn't support band 41), however this site broadcasts a 10 mHz band 25 channel and possibly an additional 5 mhz channel. (I'm not sure the 5mhz could be coming from a different cell site). You would think that the site would place me on band 25 as priority considering I was about 100 feet away from the macro. Some network tuning needs to be done because there is no reason I should've connected to this band so close to the tower. Maybe its because its an iPhone 5s? I'm not sure. Either way its exciting to see this especially with my proximity to Canada. But if it forces everyone on this channel it will be completely unusable considering the population density of this area is 12,000 people per square mile....... Any thoughts on this?

IMG_0002[1].PNG

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On 3/1/2018 at 3:14 AM, vryan44 said:

Well, I just made an exciting discovery. I picked up an iPhone 5s without an active service plan to test bands in my area and guess what I found?! Band 26 in Midtown Detroit. See for yourself! As expected, the site it connected to is only broadcasting a 3mhz channel. This is very exciting but unfortunatly I was standing right next to the site that has multiple B41 channels broadcasting(I'm aware this phone doesn't support band 41), however this site broadcasts a 10 mHz band 25 channel and possibly an additional 5 mhz channel. (I'm not sure the 5mhz could be coming from a different cell site). You would think that the site would place me on band 25 as priority considering I was about 100 feet away from the macro. Some network tuning needs to be done because there is no reason I should've connected to this band so close to the tower. Maybe its because its an iPhone 5s? I'm not sure. Either way its exciting to see this especially with my proximity to Canada. But if it forces everyone on this channel it will be completely unusable considering the population density of this area is 12,000 people per square mile....... Any thoughts on this?

IMG_0002[1].PNG

I had to disable B26 on my Nexus 6P due to this exact issue.  My phone would camp on this or B41 (which was terribly over subscribed) in downtown Lansing, with zero thruput.  randomly I'd cycle thru B25 and get great service.  Ended up disabling both B26 & B41 for awhile.

I would think the priority would be B41->B25->B26, but who knows

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On 3/2/2018 at 1:01 PM, jefbal99 said:

I had to disable B26 on my Nexus 6P due to this exact issue.  My phone would camp on this or B41 (which was terribly over subscribed) in downtown Lansing, with zero thruput.  randomly I'd cycle thru B25 and get great service.  Ended up disabling both B26 & B41 for awhile.

I would think the priority would be B41->B25->B26, but who knows

I agree completely

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Okay so I managed to make it out to that other wireline mobilitie site today(or yesterday lol whatever haha) It was getting dark so my photos are not the best but here is what I have. (Btw I also included some of the development going on in this area that may have been reason Sprint decided to locate a small cell here. That and well, its pretty close to Ford Field, Comerica Park and Little Caesars Arena.)

Again, sorry for the poor lighting but this is definitely another small cell connected by wire-line as apposed to relay. The last few images are construction for a massive development from Bedrock, which is affiliated with Rocket Fiber.(Both part of quicken loans if that matters) They could be providing the backhaul but unfortunately due to lighting the only wire-line on the utility poles i could spot with a name was Comcast; that's not to say there were many other lines on the utility poles. It was just to dark to spot. Anyway;  here it is: 

https://imgur.com/a/HTaHdmD

Any thoughts? 

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This is one of a few mobilitie small cells I have found in the area. I'm wondering if it is sprint because there is no relay installed. Actually some that had the relay before has since been removed. It looks to be connected to a wire line network... The two underground communication hatches are on the sidewalk and the unnamed one in the landscaping, yards away from the site. As mentioned, one is unnamed and one says Comcast. Let me know what you guys think.

Just as a disclaimer, this site wasn't here about two weeks ago. (Midtown Detroit)

Also; Verizon is using a completely different vendor in SE Mich so I highly doubt this site is a verizon one. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/irfkNzk

If I have time i'd like to create a map of all the sprint small cells provided by mobility in SE Mich... stay tuned as my time is limited. 

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Okay so I managed to make it out to that other wireline mobilitie site today(or yesterday lol whatever haha) It was getting dark so my photos are not the best but here is what I have. (Btw I also included some of the development going on in this area that may have been reason Sprint decided to locate a small cell here. That and well, its pretty close to Ford Field, Comerica Park and Little Caesars Arena.)

Again, sorry for the poor lighting but this is definitely another small cell connected by wire-line as apposed to relay. The last few images are construction for a massive development from Bedrock, which is affiliated with Rocket Fiber.(Both part of quicken loans if that matters) They could be providing the backhaul but unfortunately due to lighting the only wire-line on the utility poles i could spot with a name was Comcast; that's not to say there were many other lines on the utility poles. It was just to dark to spot. Anyway;  here it is: 

https://imgur.com/a/HTaHdmD

Any thoughts? 

That box on the bottom is "new" (ie not on other installations). It looks like a fiber ONT, I believe you can see the thin fiber strand entering it on the bottom. So I would guess this is a fiber fed one.

 

The fact that Sprint is likely using different backhaul providers in the same area is exciting.

 

Were you able to get engineering screenshots? Or anything showing the earfcn of it? I'm curious if it uses a different earfcn than relay fed small cells.

 

Also, if you happen to have NSG, looking at signaling for what PLMNs are broadcast would be useful. It would tell us if a non-relay small cell could serve as a donor for other small cells or magic boxes.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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On 5/22/2018 at 11:47 PM, vryan44 said:

Okay so I managed to make it out to that other wireline mobilitie site today(or yesterday lol whatever haha) It was getting dark so my photos are not the best but here is what I have. (Btw I also included some of the development going on in this area that may have been reason Sprint decided to locate a small cell here. That and well, its pretty close to Ford Field, Comerica Park and Little Caesars Arena.)

 

Any thoughts? 

 

15 hours ago, ingenium said:

That box on the bottom is "new" (ie not on other installations). It looks like a fiber ONT, I believe you can see the thin fiber strand entering it on the bottom. So I would guess this is a fiber fed one.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

The backhaul is connected to the SFP backhaul ports so that's fiber!

 

(left 2 = ethernet 802.3AT, right 2 = SFP)

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22 hours ago, vryan44 said:

This is one of a few mobilitie small cells I have found in the area. I'm wondering if it is sprint because there is no relay installed. Actually some that had the relay before has since been removed. It looks to be connected to a wire line network... The two underground communication hatches are on the sidewalk and the unnamed one in the landscaping, yards away from the site. As mentioned, one is unnamed and one says Comcast. Let me know what you guys think.

Just as a disclaimer, this site wasn't here about two weeks ago. (Midtown Detroit)

Also; Verizon is using a completely different vendor in SE Mich so I highly doubt this site is a verizon one. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/irfkNzk

If I have time i'd like to create a map of all the sprint small cells provided by mobility in SE Mich... stay tuned as my time is limited. 

It's definitely a Sprint Site.  There is a Sprint Cascade ID on the equipment.  I looked it up and found it.  And like you point out it used to be a relay site.  Interestingly though, the site has been there over a year.  I found the Cascade ID in the system and there is a Google Map image from June 2017 showing it in place.  It shows the old relay too.  However, the change to direct backhaul is likely new.

Robert

 

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Well I found some more small cells in my surrounding area, whats exciting to see is two of them seem to be directional, not using the traditional omni-directional antenna i'm used to seeing. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/MBB11as 

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Anyone notice how horrifically bad service in this part of the state has become?  I mean to say it's gone to shit would be an understatement.  I'm dropping 8 or 9 calls a day on average now.  Speeds have gone into the toilet, band transitions break downloads and streamed, often even include several seconds of "no service", data services sometimes don't reestablish after a call (LTE mark returns but with x on signal bars).  CDMA is dropping on hand off all over the place.  It's making me absolutely crazy.  I have two calls in at Sprint and they can't even tell me if they are working in something around here.

My brother just got a new Motorola X 4 two months ago and he was talking to me a out sending it in under warranty because the service took a crap after 6 weeks.

This still happens if I use my old Nexus 6, my 6P, a Galaxy S7, or Galaxy S5.

I have a post with a fair bit of support on Reddit about this, as well as some minor hijacking of a post suggesting nominating John Saw for some award.

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4 hours ago, MrZorbatron said:

 

No, the opposite. Have a few friends I set up with fast ethernet cellular routers, one in Grayling, one in Highland, one in Fenton and the last parked in St Johns. They all are pushing the top end of these routers at ~75-85 Mb p/s. 50-60 during peak times and ping is less than 50 ms. A bit more rural and north but I can't say I have had an issue reported.

These plans range from BYOD free year, one spectrum reseller, and two Data only plans all UDP with 11+ gain antennae. Get them gains bro. 

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In Oakland, Genessee, Livingston, Wayne, Washtenaw counties, reliability has totally gone to hell.  Like I said, I am talking about call performance.  The Sprint rep I talked to on the phone have even indicated an unusually high number of calls from MI with these issues, and I have people on Reddit corroborating my headaches.

 

Yes, some of my data speeds have gone up, but it doesn't really mean much to me if speeds are over 10 Mbps already.  Network reliability is essential to me.  Frequent dropped voice calls are a huge problem and hurt my business.  When one of my customers asks even in jest, if I just traded in my "cool Android phone for one of those Wal-Mart drug dealer minute phones" (exact words), there's a problem.

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Service in the eastern end of Oakland county (read Rochester Hills by Oakland U) hasn't done well either.    Just came back to Sprint from Consumers Cellular (uses AT&T and T-Mobile Network).    I bought a new Samsung 9+, a HPUE device, and notice now I can't pick up B41 in my house or yard at all now.  It's there if I'm outside but shows as 131 db's...  Not usable, so I'm always on B25 115-110 db, not stellar, and which seems very crowded now.     My first words out of my mouth were "what the hell happened!?"    Used to be able to get B41 in the winter all the time indoors and sometimes in the summer early morning.   Now, not even outside is it available.    I'll keep plugging My Sprint for slow data until they do something.   

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Assuming you are outside the 14 day return window, order a Magic Box as soon as they are back in stock next month. Once it grabs a faint b41 signal it won't let go. It will also spare your battery life. Worse case it will use b25 to broadcast much stronger b41 signal inside your house.

Service in the eastern end of Oakland county (read Rochester Hills by Oakland U) hasn't done well either.    Just came back to Sprint from Consumers Cellular (uses AT&T and T-Mobile Network).    I bought a new Samsung 9+, a HPUE device, and notice now I can't pick up B41 in my house or yard at all now.  It's there if I'm outside but shows as 131 db's...  Not usable, so I'm always on B25 115-110 db, not stellar, and which seems very crowded now.     My first words out of my mouth were "what the hell happened!?"    Used to be able to get B41 in the winter all the time indoors and sometimes in the summer early morning.   Now, not even outside is it available.    I'll keep plugging My Sprint for slow data until they do something.   


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

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Sounds like congestion. Do you pick up B41 in the house late at night or early morning? 

I think there is already 3 carriers live. I know 41276 and 41474 are live in the area 41078 is live in Ann Arbor but I didn't see it around north Detroit. I also saw 40270 which I think is a small cell.

Can you go to L'Anse Creuse High School to see where the small cell is located? That is near where I saw 40270.

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L'Anse Creuse is a bit of a distance for me.   I probably will not be out that way for a while.  Sorry to say.  

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On 7/8/2018 at 9:43 AM, MrZorbatron said:

In Oakland, Genessee, Livingston, Wayne, Washtenaw counties, reliability has totally gone to hell.  

Mr. Z... have you noticed any improvement?    I'm not seeing much B41 lately and I don't know why... something around here is going on... 

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35 minutes ago, dro1984 said:

Mr. Z... have you noticed any improvement?    I'm not seeing much B41 lately and I don't know why... something around here is going on... 

It's getting worse than ever.  I don't see so much lack of B41 as I see unusable B41.  -85 B41 signal that's as usable as communicating with Antarctica from Oxford using smoke signals (have to manually defeat B41), dropping calls on handoffs with good CDMA signal, transitions between LTE bands are accompanied by up to 10 seconds of "No Service", similar periods of "No Service" during handoffs between LTE sites even with good signal.  I can reproduce that behavior on the devices, and the dropped calls on four.

 

Still, the only responses I get from Sprint are basically "Get lost" answers.

 

Reference also:

 

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I saw the same issue in Saulte Ste Marie a couple of weeks ago and also had to disable band 41 for the phone to function. Other phones could not even see the band 41.

It's getting worse than ever.  I don't see so much lack of B41 as I see unusable B41.  -85 B41 signal that's as usable as communicating with Antarctica from Oxford using smoke signals (have to manually defeat B41), dropping calls on handoffs with good CDMA signal, transitions between LTE bands are accompanied by up to 10 seconds of "No Service", similar periods of "No Service" during handoffs between LTE sites even with good signal.  I can reproduce that behavior on the devices, and the dropped calls on four.
 
Still, the only responses I get from Sprint are basically "Get lost" answers.
 
Reference also:
 


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, MrZorbatron said:
3 hours ago, dro1984 said:

r. Z... have you noticed any improvement?    I'm not seeing much B41 lately and I don't know why... something around here is going on... 

It's getting worse than ever.  I don't see so much lack of B41 as I see unusable B41.  -85 B41 signal that's as usable as communicating with Antarctica from Oxford using smoke signals (have to manually defeat B41), dropping calls on handoffs with good CDMA signal, transitions between LTE bands are accompanied by up to 10 seconds of "No Service", similar periods of "No Service" during handoffs between LTE sites even with good signal.  I can reproduce that behavior on the devices, and the dropped calls on four.

 

Still, the only responses I get from Sprint are basically "Get lost" answers.

I spoke too soon, Band 41 was down for about 5 days at one location. It restarted again successfully when the billing cycle reset yesterday. This was on a band 41/26 device.

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19 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

I saw the same issue in Saulte Ste Marie a couple of weeks ago and also had to disable band 41 for the phone to function. Other phones could not even see the band 41.

 


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 

 

My dad's GS5 won't see B41 lots of places.  My mom's GS7 acts like my Nexus 6 and 6P, and so does my brother's Motorola X4.  The Nexus 6 and X4 seem more apt to drop B41 if not getting any data through it.  Maybe the RIL is smarter.  Even when I do have unusable B41, SMS and MMS do work over it.

 

Incidentally, I propped my phone up on my car dashboard (recording) for a minute on my drive home home earlier today in order to show somebody how bad the rain was.

The resulting video (68 MB) took over 20 minutes to upload 23 MB of over B41in Waterford, only to fly through the rest in less than a minute as soon as it jumped to B25.

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1 minute ago, belusnecropolis said:

I spoke too soon, Band 41 was down for about 5 days at one location. It restarted again successfully when the billing cycle reset yesterday. This was on a band 41/26 device.

What's a B41/26 device?  25 is Sprints main LTE, how doesn't something g support it?

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