VoLTE vs 1x Advanced

[Boosted20V]

So it's my understanding that Sprint is sticking with 1x Advanced for calling due to the fact that it's more efficient than LTE. This will have some interesting implications with pretty much every other carrier moving to VoLTE. Are any other carriers using 1x Advanced? How will this impact their roaming agreement with Verizon? I suppose Verizon will have their 1x running for quite a while yet even once they start using VoLTE.

 

EDIT - Also, we can assume at some point Sprint will start using VoLTE, no?

[Rawvega]

Yes that's a safe assumption.

 

However, for now there's nothing wrong with sticking with 1x advanced for voice.

 

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[jefbal99]

VoLTE is still an unknown and mostly unproven technology. MetroPCS started rolling it out for certain phones in LTE markets, but the major players will wait for the technology to mature

[leozno1]

So it's my understanding that Sprint is sticking with 1x Advanced for calling due to the fact that it's more efficient than LTE. This will have some interesting implications with pretty much every other carrier moving to VoLTE. Are any other carriers using 1x Advanced? How will this impact their roaming agreement with Verizon? I suppose Verizon will have their 1x running for quite a while yet even once they start using VoLTE.

 

EDIT - Also, we can assume at some point Sprint will start using VoLTE, no?

 

I don't think i've heard of any other US Carriers using 1x Advanced right now. But if networks have been so well off until now using solely CDMA 1x, then moving over the the Advanced should make their network that much more capable. But if there is one thing that I'm a bit skeptical about with VoLTE would be the potential for drastically reduced talk times due to LTE being much more power hungry than CDMA 1x Advanced.

 

Does anyone know how VoLTE would impact battery life?

[ericdabbs]

I don't think i've heard of any other US Carriers using 1x Advanced right now.

 

Actually Cricket announced intention of 1x Advanced deployment in 2012.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/leap-deploys-cdma-1x-advanced-more-efficient-voice-calling/2012-01-10

[ericdabbs]

So it's my understanding that Sprint is sticking with 1x Advanced for calling due to the fact that it's more efficient than LTE. This will have some interesting implications with pretty much every other carrier moving to VoLTE. Are any other carriers using 1x Advanced? How will this impact their roaming agreement with Verizon? I suppose Verizon will have their 1x running for quite a while yet even once they start using VoLTE.

 

EDIT - Also, we can assume at some point Sprint will start using VoLTE, no?

 

So apparently VoLTE still has a long way to go. MetroPCS announced in March this year that it would be the first carrier to transition over to VoLTE in 2H 2012. However recent reports in September show that VoLTE is just not there yet and MetroPCS has delayed VoLTE deployment until next Spring. This tells me that there are still complications with VoLTE. I hope Sprint doesn't jump the gun on any VoLTE deployment. I hope Sprint waits until 2014 at least once Network Vision is done to start considering VoLTE. Let AT&T, Verizon, TMobile be the guinea pigs and iron the VoLTE bugs.

 

March 2012 article

http://www.fiercebro...2012/2012-03-25

 

September 2012 article

http://www.fiercewir...nths/2012-09-20

[koiulpoi]

I keep hearing reports about a "verizon flip-phone that's LTE only", but I have a feeling that's rather unfounded.

[digiblur]

Sprint doesn't have the tower spacing to do volte yet.

 

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

 

 

[S4GRU]

Sprint doesn't have the tower spacing to do volte yet.

 

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

 

Exactly. This is a commonly misunderstood point. VoLTE tower spacing is significantly tighter on the same frequency as 1x. VoLTE is only good to approximately -93dBm RSSI, whereas 1x voice can be used to roughly -103dBm. 10dBm is huge and represents a lot of coverage difference.

 

Sprint would have to run VoLTE on LTE 800 just to get in the ballpark of CDMA 1900 coverage. And then it would be nowhere near as good as 1x is on 800.

 

Robert via ICS Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

 

[S4GRU]

I keep hearing reports about a "verizon flip-phone that's LTE only", but I have a feeling that's rather unfounded.

There was an article in the past six months where Verizon said they were working on VoLTE and even flip phones that were LTE only. I think the timeline for release was 2013.

 

Robert via ICS Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

 

[Boosted20V]

 

 

Exactly. This is a commonly misunderstood point. VoLTE tower spacing is significantly tighter on the same frequency as 1x. VoLTE is only good to approximately -93dBm RSSI, whereas 1x voice can be used to roughly -103dBm. 10dBm is huge and represents a lot of coverage difference.

 

Sprint would have to run VoLTE on LTE 800 just to get in the ballpark of CDMA 1900 coverage. And then it would be nowhere near as good as 1x is on 800.

 

Robert via ICS Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

So then Verizon would have the same issues with spacing on their 700mhz, no? They don't have great density yet, correct?

[leozno1]

Exactly. This is a commonly misunderstood point. VoLTE tower spacing is significantly tighter on the same frequency as 1x. VoLTE is only good to approximately -93dBm RSSI, whereas 1x voice can be used to roughly -103dBm. 10dBm is huge and represents a lot of coverage difference.

 

Sprint would have to run VoLTE on LTE 800 just to get in the ballpark of CDMA 1900 coverage. And then it would be nowhere near as good as 1x is on 800.

 

Robert via ICS Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

When you put it that way, it seems like VoLTE isn't even worth it if 1x would have much greater coverage. If thats the case Sprint should stick with HD Voice over 1x. But maybe I am wrong. What are the benefits that VoLTE would provide over using HD Voice on 1x?

[bollar]

When you put it that way, it seems like VoLTE isn't even worth it if 1x would have much greater coverage. If thats the case Sprint should stick with HD Voice over 1x. But maybe I am wrong. What are the benefits that VoLTE would provide over using HD Voice on 1x?

An advantage is that 4G voice & data could be simultaneously on one antenna, which allows for smaller, probably more power efficient phones.

[leozno1]

An advantage is that 4G voice & data could be simultaneously on one antenna, which allows for smaller, probably more power efficient phones.

 

That makes sense. Although a couple posts back I stated that one of the things I'm skeptical about with VoLTE would be the potential for reduced talk times due to LTE being much more power hungry than a 1x CDMA radio. Would that still be the case?

 

 

[bollar]

That makes sense. Although a couple posts back I stated that one of the things I'm skeptical about with VoLTE would be the potential for reduced talk times due to LTE being much more power hungry than a 1x CDMA radio. Would that still be the case?

I don't know. Certainly seems plausible.

[S4GRU]

 

So then Verizon would have the same issues with spacing on their 700mhz' date=' no? They don't have great density yet, correct?[/quote']

 

That's correct. Verizon VoLTE would offer significantly reduced coverage than VZW 1x service in most instances. VZW VoLTE on LTE 750 would have coverage roughly similar to their PCS spacing, but nowhere near as much as their Cellular spacing (which is the lion share of their 1x deployments). And their VoLTE on AWS would offer pretty anemic coverage, but it would most likely always be redundant.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[S4GRU]

 

When you put it that way' date=' it seems like VoLTE isn't even worth it if 1x would have much greater coverage. If thats the case Sprint should stick with HD Voice over 1x. But maybe I am wrong. What are the benefits that VoLTE would provide over using HD Voice on 1x?[/quote']

 

Once VoLTE is worked out, Sprint could use it as an overlay. It could become the major carrier of voice traffic, and Sprint could reduce its number of voice carriers. Just leaving one 1x carrier on CDMA 800 for distance and penetration, to cover area where VoLTE stops short.

 

However, since 1x Advanced is notably more efficient than VoLTE, Sprint should ride that gravy train all the way to the end of the line. They probably should start adding VoLTE capability to devices in the next year or so, so they can shunt additional traffic as needed to VoLTE without deploying more spectrum robbing 1x carriers. But at this point, this is nowhere near a priority.

 

1x Advanced is a voice workhorse. Whose voice capacity and coverage are just unrivaled at this point. HD voice can be run over 1x the same as VoLTE.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[S4GRU]

 

That makes sense. Although a couple posts back I stated that one of the things I'm skeptical about with VoLTE would be the potential for reduced talk times due to LTE being much more power hungry than a 1x CDMA radio. Would that still be the case?

 

 

With 28nm chips, it seems like CDMA and LTE battery life have been the same. I stay in CDMA/LTE mode on my GS3, and do not notice a difference in battery life whether I have a 3G or 4G connection. However, if I have a weak 3G connection, my battery will drain pretty fast.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[koiulpoi]

1x Advanced is a voice workhorse. Whose voice capacity and coverage are just unrivaled at this point. HD voice can be run over 1x the same as VoLTE.

So, what exactly is "HD Voice"? What handsets can do it, and when will it roll out? There's surprisingly little information I can pull up about it, other than it's "clearer" or something, but no indication of how it works.

[S4GRU]

So' date=' what exactly is "HD Voice"? What handsets can do it, and when will it roll out? There's surprisingly little information I can pull up about it, other than it's "clearer" or something, but no indication of how it works.[/quote']

 

The EVO LTE does HD voice. It uses two microphones and I think its own compression codec. But the device on the other end has to also have it for all the advantages to be noticeable. It is clearer than land line communication.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

VoLTE is only good to approximately -93dBm RSSI, whereas 1x voice can be used to roughly -103dBm. 10dBm is huge and represents a lot of coverage difference.

 

As I detailed in my article this summer, part of the problem is that LTE RSSI almost always gets inflated compared to CDMA1X RSSI because LTE carrier bandwidths are almost always greater.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-308-rssi-vs-rsrp-a-brief-lte-signal-strength-primer/

 

This is especially true with current VZW LTE, which has a 10 MHz carrier bandwidth, compared to CDMA1X, which always has a 1.25 MHz carrier bandwidth. Even if all other factors were the same, VZW LTE carrier RSSI would measure ~9 dB greater than CDMA1X carrier RSSI because signal strength is a measure of field strength integrated over bandwidth (and VZW LTE is ~8x bandwidth of CDMA1X). What that does is create a mirage, making LTE signal strength appear greater and more usable than it is in actuality. If you want to convert LTE RSSI to a more CDMA1X RSSI centered measurement, subtract 9 dB from VZW LTE RSSI (or subtract 6 dB from Sprint LTE RSSI). Lo and behold, that VZW LTE -93 dBm RSSI drops to -102 dBm RSSI.

 

AJ

[Boosted20V]

Once VoLTE is worked out, Sprint could use it as an overlay. It could become the major carrier of voice traffic, and Sprint could reduce its number of voice carriers. Just leaving one 1x carrier on CDMA 800 for distance and penetration, to cover area where VoLTE stops short.

 

However, since 1x Advanced is notably more efficient than VoLTE, Sprint should ride that gravy train all the way to the end of the line. They probably should start adding VoLTE capability to devices in the next year or so, so they can shunt additional traffic as needed to VoLTE without deploying more spectrum robbing 1x carriers. But at this point, this is nowhere near a priority.

 

1x Advanced is a voice workhorse. Whose voice capacity and coverage are just unrivaled at this point. HD voice can be run over 1x the same as VoLTE.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

 

Thanks, I find this very interesting. My biggest question regarding it all would be.. if you run a hybrid of both 1xA and VoLTE, would traffic flow seamlessly between both or would you have dropped calls? For example, I'm on the street, great LTE signal is being received and I'm using VoLTE. If I walk into a building and then need to drop back to 800mhz 1xA, would the handoff be seamless?

[Boosted20V]

Thanks, I find this very interesting. My biggest question regarding it all would be.. if you run a hybrid of both 1xA and VoLTE, would traffic flow seamlessly between both or would you have dropped calls? For example, I'm on the street, great LTE signal is being received and I'm using VoLTE. If I walk into a building and then need to drop back to 800mhz 1xA, would the handoff be seamless?

 

Also, this brings up a very good point regarding low frequency spectrum. Moving forward towards LTE, low frequency spectrum becomes all that much more valuable based on the lack of strength of LTE signals to maintain decent in-building coverage. This puts carriers such as T-Mobile at a very distinct disadvantage.

[S4GRU]

 

Also' date=' this brings up a very good point regarding low frequency spectrum. Moving forward towards LTE, low frequency spectrum becomes all that much more valuable based on the lack of strength of LTE signals to maintain decent in-building coverage. This puts carriers such as T-Mobile at a very distinct disadvantage.[/quote']

 

Yes. Tmo and VoLTE would not be a good combination at this point. At least not as their sole voice connection.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[S4GRU]

 

Thanks' date=' I find this very interesting. My biggest question regarding it all would be.. if you run a hybrid of both 1xA and VoLTE, would traffic flow seamlessly between both or would you have dropped calls? For example, I'm on the street, great LTE signal is being received and I'm using VoLTE. If I walk into a building and then need to drop back to 800mhz 1xA, would the handoff be seamless?[/quote']

 

Good question. I don't know anything about 1xA/VoLTE voice hand offs. I think it would be a challenge. VoLTE being all IP. It may require an eHRPD kind of system like EVDO/LTE data hand off.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner