Sprint primed for acquisitions

[S4GRU]

Either way, Robert, me or no one else knows for sure what will happen, it's all guessing sms no need to argue over. My skin is pretty thick, admin a porn, warez site for several years, mod on several dish network hacking sites back in the day before I went legit and quit hacking. I've been called things that I wondered if it was English, but in the end, in this case we are all guessing whether we are sure of our guess it not. I think my guess is accurate just like everyone else thinks theirs is accurate --bygones are bygones. Maybe we can come back in 8 months and tell what has happened (the company will announce in January or February if major changes are coming to their cellular network, that's when SoComp makes their yearly changes. )

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

I definitely concede we are all guessing. I don't think anyone said that they knew. It will be interesting to see what happens over time.

 

Robert

[jefbal99]

Honestly Robert, some of the posts responding to jonathanm1978 have seemed a little aggressive. I've gotten that tone reading them. It is ok to disagree, but this member has boots on the ground and knowledge inside the company. I value his opinion on this topic for those reasons.

 

It is very true that none of us have any clue about what Southern Company will do with their 800Mhz spectrum. I think that all of us Sprint/wireless enthusiasts want the best thing for the overall consumer (IE partnering with Sprint and building NV), but this company has to do what it believes is the best for its bottom line. They very well could contract with Motorola and a far east manufacturing plant to keep making iDen devices or they could give up the phone portion of their network and be purely two way communication as suggested. Money talks and if Southern Company is willing to shell out the dollars, then someone will make the chips and someone will make the devices.

 

Just because the suggestions made by you and AJ and others here are very logical, doesn't mean that they will be done. How many times have we seen logic overlooked because of another business decision? It sounds like this is a very internal company that wants to handle end to end, everything on their own books. More power to them and if they continue to make money then good on them.

 

While a merger/partnership/affiliation with Sprint appears to make the most sense on the surface, internally to this company, it might just not be a marker on their current road map.

[Boosted20V]

Honestly Robert, some of the posts responding to jonathanm1978 have seemed a little aggressive. I've gotten that tone reading them. It is ok to disagree, but this member has boots on the ground and knowledge inside the company. I value his opinion on this topic for those reasons.

 

It is very true that none of us have any clue about what Southern Company will do with their 800Mhz spectrum. I think that all of us Sprint/wireless enthusiasts want the best thing for the overall consumer (IE partnering with Sprint and building NV), but this company has to do what it believes is the best for its bottom line. They very well could contract with Motorola and a far east manufacturing plant to keep making iDen devices or they could give up the phone portion of their network and be purely two way communication as suggested. Money talks and if Southern Company is willing to shell out the dollars, then someone will make the chips and someone will make the devices.

 

Just because the suggestions made by you and AJ and others here are very logical, doesn't mean that they will be done. How many times have we seen logic overlooked because of another business decision? It sounds like this is a very internal company that wants to handle end to end, everything on their own books. More power to them and if they continue to make money then good on them.

 

While a merger/partnership/affiliation with Sprint appears to make the most sense on the surface, internally to this company, it might just not be a marker on their current road map.

 

I find fault with the argument that a publicly held company will spend vast sums of money as a loss regardless if they're a utility or not. Also, wouldn't the FCC have a say in all of this? Would they really be okay with this spectrum being tied up by one utility company just for their own internal usage?

[S4GRU]

I find fault with the argument that a publicly held company will spend vast sums of money as a loss regardless if they're a utility or not. Also, wouldn't the FCC have a say in all of this? Would they really be okay with this spectrum being tied up by one utility company just for their own internal usage?

 

The FCC point is the best one of all, and amazingly, not one I had even considered.

 

Robert

[jefbal99]

I find fault with the argument that a publicly held company will spend vast sums of money as a loss regardless if they're a utility or not. Also, wouldn't the FCC have a say in all of this? Would they really be okay with this spectrum being tied up by one utility company just for their own internal usage?

The FCC point is the best one of all, and amazingly, not one I had even considered.

 

Robert

 

Does the FCC have a say in this case? They won the spectrum at auction, have built out a network, it is fully utilized for the service that it was designed for. I'd say that SouthernLinc/Southern Company is utilizing their spectrum licenses much better than how Clear is using their BRS spectrum.

 

As an argument for Southern Company keeping this in house; if they evaluate the cost of replacing every two way unit, every transmitter, every antenna, every everything for their company communications with an unknown/unproven technology for what they do, it might just be worth the extra money to keep doing it themselves. They have a system that is obviously working very well and they are very happy with it. Why take a huge risk outsourcing their communications to a company that's goal is to make money, rather than provide the best possible communication available? Sometimes it is better to spend a few more dollars for something you know that works and is 100% proven, rather than attempt to save a few dollars on the unknown.

 

I believe it was stated on the 1st page that SouthernLinc got an award or recognition from the FCC for having all their cell towers back up within a day or two of a hurricane. I would bet my paycheck that Sprint/at&t/Verizon/T-Mobile wouldn't stand a chance of having that type of a response. The Big 4 are just too big to dedicate the time/resources to completely outsource this.

[S4GRU]

Does the FCC have a say in this case? They won the spectrum at auction, have built out a network, it is fully utilized for the service that it was designed for. I'd say that SouthernLinc/Southern Company is utilizing their spectrum licenses much better than how Clear is using their BRS spectrum.

 

As an argument for Southern Company keeping this in house; if they evaluate the cost of replacing every two way unit, every transmitter, every antenna, every everything for their company communications with an unknown/unproven technology for what they do, it might just be worth the extra money to keep doing it themselves. They have a system that is obviously working very well and they are very happy with it. Why take a huge risk outsourcing their communications to a company that's goal is to make money, rather than provide the best possible communication available? Sometimes it is better to spend a few more dollars for something you know that works and is 100% proven, rather than attempt to save a few dollars on the unknown.

 

I believe it was stated on the 1st page that SouthernLinc got an award or recognition from the FCC for having all their cell towers back up within a day or two of a hurricane. I would bet my paycheck that Sprint/at&t/Verizon/T-Mobile wouldn't stand a chance of having that type of a response. The Big 4 are just too big to dedicate the time/resources to completely outsource this.

 

Spectrum is a public resource. It must be available for the public to use. It's probably the only reason why Southern even offers service to the general public to begin with.

 

As a taxpayer, I have a huge problem with a company hoarding public spectrum for their own personal use. I will be the one to happily file the FCC complaint should Southern stop selling service to the general public.

 

Robert

[jefbal99]

Spectrum is a public resource. It must be available for the public to use. It's probably the only reason why Southern even offers service to the general public to begin with.

 

As a taxpayer, I have a huge problem with a company hoarding public spectrum for their own personal use. I will be the one to happily file the FCC complaint should Southern stop selling service to the general public.

 

Robert

 

Then shouldn't complaints be filed against every wireless company sitting on Spectrum? Why did SpectrumCo get to sit on AWS for so long without being forced to do something, then selling for a huge profit? Why is Dish able to flounder around with their spectrum? Sprint sitting on WCS spectrum that may be usable to at&t now.

 

I have a much bigger problem with spectrum being unused than being used for a legit purpose. What Clear has been allowed to do with their "Protection Sites" in BRS is a bunch of BS. The FCC should be able to force use of spectrum, allow the company to sell to another party or revoke use of the license and resell to a company that will use it.

 

Before the FCC looks into a company using spectrum, they should investigate those NOT using spectrum...

 

Edit In: SouthernLinc could very easily offer a two way radio service to other companies/municipalities/JohnQPublic to meet any requirements of public use.

[S4GRU]

 

Then shouldn't complaints be filed against every wireless company sitting on Spectrum? Why did SpectrumCo get to sit on AWS for so long without being forced to do something' date=' then selling for a huge profit? Why is Dish able to flounder around with their spectrum? Sprint sitting on WCS spectrum that may be usable to at&t now.

 

I have a much bigger problem with spectrum being unused than being used for a legit purpose. What Clear has been allowed to do with their "Protection Sites" in BRS is a bunch of BS. The FCC should be able to force use of spectrum, allow the company to sell to another party or revoke use of the license and resell to a company that will use it.

 

Before the FCC looks into a company using spectrum, they should investigate those NOT using spectrum...

 

Edit In: SouthernLinc could very easily offer a two way radio service to other companies/municipalities/JohnQPublic to meet any requirements of public use.[/quote']

 

Do you think I advocate companies sitting on spectrum? Obviously not. Unfortunately companies that sit on spectrum that doesn't have build out requirements are not in violation with the FCC. These are two separate issues.

 

Issue number one is public spectrum must be used to the benefit the general public and available for their use. Issue number two is build out requirements. I have strong feelings about both and side on public interest. Its our spectrum, just like federal lands.

 

Build out requirements are a rather new requirement of the FCC when it comes to spectrum. And it is a good move. So the days of sitting on new spectrum resources are over.

 

And I also support the FCC making changes to go after entities who warehouse spectrum resources and never use them. But currently there is no law or regulation that prohibits these old license holders to not use spectrum.

 

However, when they do use it, they cannot keep public spectrum to themselves.

 

What if Walmart outbid Sprint for the H Block and decided to use it to build a closed network for themselves? If so, that spectrum wouldn't even get used at 1/100th as much as if Sprint got it. Maybe 1/1000th. It would be a very poor use of a public resource. Change names...Southern, Walmart, GE, Koch Industries...it doesn't matter. It's our spectrum.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[jefbal99]

If Southern turns their SouthernLinc into a 2 way radio system, using IDen technology, that is available to both public and private users, then would it be in violation of the FCC?

 

If Wal-mart were to win a nationwide H Block auction, build out a network with a tower at everyone of their stores, give their employees free devices/service for use (primarily at work every day), and also sell "WalTel" to the general public, then more power too them. The coverage wouldn't be great because it is focused on their business foot print, but it would meet their communication needs, while also meeting the requirements of the spectrum.

 

Edit in: Not trying to be argumentative, but just trying to show that a business could legally do this and still meet all the needed requirements of the FCC. While it might not be the best use of the Spectrum for John Q Public, it might meet the specific business need of Walmart, while allowing them to gain another revenue stream.

[S4GRU]

If Southern turns their SouthernLinc into a 2 way radio system, using IDen technology, that is available to both public and private users, then would it be in violation of the FCC?

 

If Wal-mart were to win a nationwide H Block auction, build out a network with a tower at everyone of their stores, give their employees free devices/service for use (primarily at work every day), and also sell WalTel to the general public, then more power too them. The coverage wouldn't be great because it is focused on their business foot print, but it would meet their communication needs, while also meeting the requirements of the spectrum.

 

Edit in: Not trying to be argumentative, but just trying to show that a business could legally do this and still meet all the needed requirements of the FCC. While it might not be the best use of the Spectrum for John Q Public, it might meet the specific business need of Walmart, while allowing them to gain another revenue stream.

 

When I first read your response, you didn't have the Edit of Southern selling service. Hasn't my argument been about not selling service? You have changed the argument.

 

Robert

[jefbal99]

When I first read your response, you didn't have the Edit of the Southern selling service. Hasn't my argument been about not selling service? You have changed the argument.

 

Robert

 

Sorry, it was in your quote, I thought you just ignored it. It was kind of surprising, hence my 2nd reply with similar information Initially I didn't think about the FCC and public spectrum. However, even with a public use requirement, any private company could build a network for public/private use, with the primary goal being private use.

[S4GRU]

Sorry, it was in your quote, I thought you just ignored it. It was kind of surprising, hence my 2nd reply with similar information Initially I didn't think about the FCC and public spectrum. However, even with a public use requirement, any private company could build a network for public/private use, with the primary goal being private use.

 

It was in my quote, because it took me a minute or two for me to read your initial post without the quote, then when I hit reply, you had made the edit and it showed up in the quote. I didn't go back and read the quote for changes before I started typing a response.

 

When you hit quote, it doesn't pull the iteration of the post on your screen, it pulls the most recent info in the database for that post.

 

Robert

[pyroscott]

As I said in a few posts prior, they pay the bill for 26,000 employees, and consider it operational expenses. to analysts they might be losing money, but to them, it's considered part of operating expenses (which is passed on to clients -- ie, people who pay their power bill).

...

To them, profit, smofit...who cares.

 

So in other words, southern company has a monopoly, they set the price of power because power is infrastructure, and has no competition. It really doesn't matter what kind of irrational, poor business decisions they make, because nobody has a choice. The customers pay for the poor decision making of southern company.

 

To put this in perspective:

Iden Thinning team,

 

Last night, we took the last of our 9700 IDEN cell sites off air in our IDEN Thinning project. Today, we celebrate our accomplishment of delivering an on-time, significant OPEX savings to Sprint. Exactly how much savings? Well don't quote me on this, but if you estimate the per site cost of Power ($3000), Telco ($300) and Rent ($2500), that's a savings of $5800 monthly / $69,600 annually. For 9700 cell sites, that's an annual savings of $675,120,000. You should feel proud that you are part of helping Sprint to achieve this goal.

 

While we know that IDEN shutdown is the best financial decision for Sprint, it is a bittersweet moment for many of us who helped build the IDEN network. You may remember the day that the first nationwide coast-to-coast IDEN Direct Connect call was made (and $20 to you if you can remember where it was made from and to… Irvine to Boston?). And I'd bet that some of you still answer affirmative questions with the response of "10-4." These experiences have helped us to build a strong Sprint.

 

While the Thinning portion of the project is complete, we need to continue delivering on the following Thinning items:

- Power Down of 9700 cell sites - this is where those OPEX savings start adding up, and we need to deliver them on time. Our FSO Ops team has already powered off 4153 cell sites. The Power and Energy team has already turned off commercial power to 993 sites.

 

So to break it down, according to a press release on Southern Linc's website Southern Linc has more than 32,000 devices operating on their iDEN network of more than 800 cell sites. Sprint was spending an estimated $70,000 annually per nextel site. If they jettison their non-employee customer base, which is almost guaranteed once they lose roaming on Nextel. $70,000 x 800 = $56 million in yearly costs to run an internal communications network. There are other costs with running a cellular network, as it requires continual upkeep (which would only get more costly as time passes and iDEN becomes more obsolete) as well as a full staff to manage the network etc.

$56 million spread across 32,000 devices is $1750 per year or nearly $150 per month, for a phone that is nothing more than a glorified walkie talkie. If they decide to throw down somewhere in the ballpark of $700 per iDEN hybrid device, they could thin out some of their cell sites and save some money on operating expenses, but they have to pay another carrier for GSM/CDMA service on the devices for them to be useful for anything other than PTT, and to use them outside the small service area.

They could have nationwide service through any of the major carriers for a third of what they would pay to continue on with Southern Linc. Especially when you consider they would get a hefty discount when they bring the power of 32,000 lines to the bargaining table. If they signed on with Sprint as a partner, they could likely maintain their stranglehold on maintaining their own towers, and deploy NV equipment, giving their employees nationwide service, as well as voice/data on devices that have much better economies of scale.

 

Is it worth flushing something like $40 million down the drain per year, just so Southern Company can operate an iDEN network for their companies? True, if you balance that $40 million across their 4.4 million customers, it amounts to less than $1 per customer per month, but what company wouldn't want to save $40 million per year? And what customer would like to see an additional $1 fee tacked on to their monthly bill because the company wants to maintain an inefficient communication network for its employees? There was enough customer outcry when Verizon tried to charge a $2 convenience fee for one-time online payments that they decided not to institute that fee. And that was just for select customers, and it was easy to avoid the fee by sending a check or signing up for auto-pay.

[jonathanm1978]

What I get from reading is adding up to say it's inefficient and wasteful, look at it from my point of view:

 

My wife is at work and gets told to go to the sub-basement below their 800 megawatt unit and pull the 600 amp breaker when they tell her the unit has scrubbed down. She proceeds to go and do her job, but because of a crappy, unreliable carrier now handling communication and not having the cell tower on the plant property anymore, when she goes to pull the breaker, she gets disintegrated because her boss gets the Nextel "dong dong dong" instead of getting "bleep bleep" when he tried to tell her the unit didn't scrub. This is JUST ONE of the many reasons why they consider it a vital part of operations. I stopped today and looked at their on-site tower, how many carriers are going to agree to build a tower on every plant site? I want them to be able to communicate, but then again, none of your have family who's life depends on being able to communicate...

 

But like I said, bygones are bygones. You guys are more than welcome to tear apart my reasoning in what I've said earlier, but I can't help but have a personal connection with southern company, my wife of 15 years ties me to that company. I got a bigger complaint about them making their own insurance company and operating that than I do their use of a small amount of spectrum (she told me today they don't want anyone using phone while roaming so while they have roaming agreements, they don't like paying that bill). Every single plant has a tower in the property.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[pyroscott]

then again, none of your have family who's life depends on being able to communicate...

 

Interesting that you would say this. I think that communication is pretty important in my line of work also, maybe more important.

 

Amazing, all the other power plants that don't have this vital communication system. They don't seem to have major communication issues.

 

 

If they signed on with Sprint as a partner, they could likely maintain their stranglehold on maintaining their own towers, and deploy NV equipment, giving their employees nationwide service, as well as voice/data on devices that have much better economies of scale.

 

It boils down to this: nobody is saying that Southern needs to put their employees at risk to save money. What we are trying to say, is that there are much more efficient ways to ensure reliable communication. You think that any of the carriers would say no if Southern wanted to foot the bill for a cell site on their grounds? Doubt it.

[jefbal99]

If Southern Linc partners with Sprint, like Shentel, then they could build their own network as an affiliate. Southern Linc would/could still own their towers and put them where ever they want. They could put extra towers in plants with PCS & SMR antennas to make sure their business coverage needs are met.

 

Sent from my CM9 Epic 4g Touch using Forum Runner

[jonathanm1978]

I see what your saying, but you bring up other plants that already have their COM in place, like solinc does now.

My point is they don't view it as wasted money (they waste more running their new meters that are read by satellite and don't require a visit every month from them). I'd love to see them shed some expenses, maybe they could give raises across the board to people. My wife really didn't need a brand new i576 just to talk to those folks when I just bought her a new SGS3 back on the 5th of this month. But she is required to wear it while at that plant.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[ChadBroChillz]

I see what your saying, but you bring up other plants that already have their COM in place, like solinc does now.

My point is they don't view it as wasted money (they waste more running their new meters that are read by satellite and don't require a visit every month from them). I'd love to see them shed some expenses, maybe they could give raises across the board to people. My wife really didn't need a brand new i576 just to talk to those folks when I just bought her a new SGS3 back on the 5th of this month. But she is required to wear it while at that plant.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

If they become an affiliate, then they would still control their network, while getting access to sprint's spectrum. That would allow them to slowly convert their network to CDMA/LTE while keeping their iDEN network up and running until 1xA and LTE on 800 are up and running. They would already have the equipment ready from samsung and they would resell sprint service instead of SouthernLinc. They would also get money from Sprint customers roaming on their network.

[bigsnake49]

Every power company that I know, and I know quite a few, runs an private LMR system, except Southern Co who runs an IDEN based system. The rest of the companies don't have any external customers so they have to eat the cost of running an LMR system.

 

There are certain uptime requirements and SLAs associated with running a utility communication system. Unless Sprint hardened their sites and network infrastructure, they probably could not meet the uptime and SLAs that utilities require.

[bigsnake49]

Guys I'm sure that Southern Co. and Solinc have looked and are looking at all their options with respect to Nextel going away. We will see what happens.

[bigsnake49]

I guess MetroPCS is shopping itself around. I know that Sprint has to be careful since they have a lot on their plate, but they cannot wait forever.

[jefbal99]

I guess MetroPCS is shopping itself around. I know that Sprint has to be careful since they have a lot on their plate, but they cannot wait forever.

 

What Spectrum licenses does Metro carry? I thought they were getting into AWS

[bigsnake49]

Both AWS and PCS.

[jefbal99]

Both AWS and PCS.

 

If the PCS can help Sprint in markets they are short in, along with selling/trading the AWS to get more PCS in those markets, then seems like a good idea. However, I think the focus needs to stay on Network Vision

[ChadBroChillz]

I believe Cricket would be a better partner from a spectrum stand point, but overall I still feel that USCC is the smarter choice for the long term. They would increase their native coverage in rural areas. They could sell all USCC 700/AWS to recoup some of the cost.