Debate on whether you should offload smartphone data on WiFi, even though you pay for "unlimited"

[dedub]

lets everyone jump on LTE at the same time.... shake things up a bit.

 

ok, 1.... 2... 3...

[WiWavelength]

ok, 1.... 2... 3...

 

Nah, you should jump to conclusions...

 

 

AJ

[iansltx]

If Clear is your home ISP, then WiFi offload to it. But Clear has abandoned its retail business model and being a home ISP. It didn't work. And they don't have enough spectrum in the Top 25 markets to be a major home ISP and support Sprint and other partners.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

 

News to the Best Buy here in Austin. They're still carrying Clear Hubs.

 

Seriously though, how much spectrum do you think is "enough" to do home broadband?

[S4GRU]

 

News to the Best Buy here in Austin. They're still carrying Clear Hubs.

 

Seriously though' date=' how much spectrum do you think is "enough" to do home broadband?[/quote']

 

I've heard it described in the past from one of our Clearwire sources that they could not handle a large scale adoption in the Top 25 markets with the spectrum resources they have. They realize the home ISP business model was not only flawed but the technical resource model was also flawed. Home users used 5x the the amount of data than they originally forecasted. And Sprint smartphone customers used 3x.

 

When you consider how dense the Clearwire network is, and they still have 4-5 carriers deployed in high capacity sites and they never reached the subscriber numbers they planned, and the speeds have dropped to 2-3Mbps at these sites...well, it really speaks to how flawed the whole plan was.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

When you consider how dense the Clearwire network is, and they still have 4-5 carriers deployed in high capacity sites and they never reached the subscriber numbers they planned, and the speeds have dropped to 2-3Mbps at these sites...well, it really speaks to how flawed the whole plan was.

 

Unless MIMO technology takes a huge leap (16x16 MIMO?), wireless broadband will never be able to keep up with its wired counterpart.

 

AJ

[AcctDeleted_cloudsurfer]

I've heard it described in the past from one of our Clearwire sources that they could not handle a large scale adoption in the Top 25 markets with the spectrum resources they have. They realize the home ISP business model was not only flawed but the technical resource model was also flawed. Home users used 5x the the amount of data than they originally forecasted. And Sprint smartphone customers used 3x.

 

When you consider how dense the Clearwire network is, and they still have 4-5 carriers deployed in high capacity sites and they never reached the subscriber numbers they planned, and the speeds have dropped to 2-3Mbps at these sites...well, it really speaks to how flawed the whole plan was.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

 

Strange thing is I still receive Clearwire home wireless ISP offers all the time.. so are they still promoting in some markets?

[S4GRU]

 

Strange thing is I still receive Clearwire home wireless ISP offers all the time.. so are they still promoting in some markets?

 

You can only get Clearwire service now through direct sales as far as I know. They have been actively closing stores for the past year. They are transitioning to a wholesale business model.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[koiulpoi]

The only way Wifi offload would work is if Sprint offers incentives (e.g. discounts) to off-loaders, or forces it (via handset software or threatening to terminate service), or institutes data caps.

They're certainly trying.

 

The HTC EVO 4G and the Samsung Epic 4G (and maybe others) now prompt the user to connect to 4G WiMAX and WiFi when they are available, with the end goal being taking stress off of Sprint's often overcrowded 3G network. WiMAX may be a bit overloaded in some areas, but 2 Mbps is still much, much better than 100 Kbps (or less) in areas over capacity. And as has been said in this thread, 2 Mbps is more than enough for the vast majority of Smartphone usage.

 

For a more recent example, the Motorola Photon Q prompts users to connect to open WiFi networks, even if WiFi is shut off.

[Bob Newhart]

I wonder how much data would be kept off the Sprint network if people stopped doing gigabytes of speedtests I wonder?

[gameaddict8]

I wonder how much data would be kept off the Sprint network if people stopped doing gigabytes of speedtests I wonder?

 

Speedtests can take 40-50 mb on lte. Makes my downloading podcasts over wimax look like a joke.

[Proxcee]

Speedtests can take 40-50 mb on lte. Makes my downloading podcasts over wimax look like a joke.

 

Initially a lot of the data on the network will be from Speedtests but after awhile everyone will get settled in and just realize....its fast. When that happens most of the speed tests that will be run will be because the user experience doesn't seem as fast ...as opposed to...."I wonder how fast my "fast" connection is .....right now......wow!".

[AcctDeleted_cloudsurfer]

You can only get Clearwire service now through direct sales as far as I know. They have been actively closing stores for the past year. They are transitioning to a wholesale business model.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

 

Good to know.. thanks.

[CuriousTim]

My argument has always been offload on WiFi at home or any WiFi that you feel is secure, IF IT MEETS YOUR NEEDS. Not use which one is best. If you have a 30Mbps WiFi at home, but you are getting 37Mbps from Sprint, you would still use the Sprint LTE because it is better?

 

Robert

 

You have a poor argument. A person who uses 2 GB of data a month can cause more burden on the Network compared to one who uses 10-20 GB data a month. If 1.5Mbps Wifi meets my needs and Sprint is giving me 8+ Mbps I'll definitely take the 8 Mbps. Their towers can obviously handle the data just fine. If the towers are not burdened then there is no need to offload data to Wifi.

Edited September 23, 2012 by CuriousTim

[centermedic]

I work in telecom, I understand to a great degree the differences in costs of shared resources. Further, I'm a stock holder of both sprint and clearwire. If I thought for a second that my (or even nationwide aggregate) use of 3g/4g data use instead wifi offloading at home had an overly negative affect then I might agree. But I don't.

 

If wimax/lte ever got the point where it performs like sprints current 3g service, then all of you may have a point.

 

The reality is that currently, the wimax, and ostensibly LTE, have sufficient resources to not require the use of wifi offload, now or for the immediate near term future, especially in areas where load is not over concentrated (such as stadiums/concert venue's/etc).

 

I pay for sprint service to provide data for my phone. If I use some other service to provide data for my phone, should I continue to be billed by sprint?

 

It is the principle of the matter, if you pay for a service you should be able to use said service within the terms of your contract, and the contract provider should be providing the services within the contract. Without guilt or ridicule from the moral high ground. No more, no less.

Sorry. i just cant fathom why anybody with wifi at home would not offload while at home. Additionally all statments made in reference to the wide difference in cost of infrastructure between cellular and dsl/cable are valid. Cellular costs significantly more. The last point is you mentioned that if Wimax and LTE started performing like sprints 3g then we might have a point. Well, wimax in some cases can be just about as slow as a "good" Sprint 3g connection. I have seen evidence of VERIZON LTE getting slower than their promised 3g speeds. On top of that both Sprint and Verizon are projected to run out of spectrum in the next two years if they stand pat(and sprint has issues with clearwire). New spectrum cannot be manufactured. Once it is tapped out thats it.

[S4GRU]

 

You have a poor argument. A person who uses 2 GB of data a month can cause more burden on the Network compared to one who uses 10-20 GB data a month. If 1.5Mbps Wifi meets my needs and Sprint is giving me 8+ Mbps I'll definitely take the 8 Mbps. Their towers can obviously handle the data just fine. If the towers are not burdened then there is no need to offload data to Wifi.

 

My argument is not poor. You may want to use your unlimited data at home instead of offloading. And that's fine, explain to us why you think it is OK. But your disagreement does not make my argument poor.

 

I would say your ability to judge the network burdens and impacts of people refusing to offload is poor.

 

It really bothers me that after pages and pages of solid arguments you would go straight to just proclaiming my argument is poor. The bottom line is if you can offload with no noticeable impact in performance, why wouldn't you? Are you just not offloading to make a point?

 

I also am amazed that someone who is not even a Sponsor won't give the Administrator of a site the most basic decorum of respect. Why would you in your first comment on a subject that you are late to, come right out and claim my argument to be poor? Why don't you just give your counter opinion without shooting across the Admin's bow? I'm tolerant of diverse opinions, but I'm not always tolerant of disrespect.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

[centermedic]

Yes I did. I hope I made a few more customers leave due to bad service. But I probably didn't because their network could handle it and they just wanted me to switch to a tiered plan. So I have no regret. I wanted to $% them over like they've $%ed millions of people. I don't think you know the magnitude of which that I hate ATT. In the end I did nothing significant, but I hope I made some sort of impression on somebody (other than you and everyone here who now probably thinks I'm crazy o.O)

No fan of AT&T but spectrum wise they have the worse position of the four major cell phone companies. Going to tiered plans was a matter of survival and not money.

[CuriousTim]

You're tolerant of diverse opinions? Only when it meets your needs. And your disrespect towards multiple people in this thread is amusing especially when you demand respect for yourself. Just because you're the forum admin lets you be a dick? Glad we get to see your true character when put under the spotlight.

 

1. If (as you suggest) 1.5Mbps is a good enough connection for cell-phone users to Wifi, then why would anyone want to off-load when they can get 6-8Mbps on Sprint Lte? If me using Sprint data (say 6 Mbps) on Sprint brings everyone else down to 6Mbps then it doesn't hurt any sprint users because 1.5Mbps should be plenty fine -- they should be blessed with 6Mbps.

 

2. If I use 10 GB of data between 3am-7am when the networks are never burdened my judgement of when the networks are burdened is poor? There you go again calling someone stupid when you're the one making wrong assumptions. Bottom line is - why offload when it has no noticeable impact on the Sprint user if I'm paying to use the service? We're all suppose to off-load to meet your self-centered view?

 

"you have a poor argument" really burst your bubble -- especially when I gave reasoning to have a healthy discussion. Glad we are all getting to see your true character.

[wyndd123]

this is why i offload to my router

[S4GRU]

Attention S4GRU Members. We are not a corporation. We are an all-volunteer staff. I work a full time job and still run S4GRU for you. I do not have the time to get into disrespectful arguments. We have these threads for serious discussions and some fun side conversations.

 

I had to ban a member based on a response that I had to remove. You guys cannot call out and argue with S4GRU Staff publicly (especially using foul language and violating our posting guidelines). If we allow that, it just causes complete chaos, and we will lose the ability to keep control of our forums.

 

This is a contentious thread. And you all are welcome to disagree with the points laid out, by our members, Sponsors, Staff and even me. However, please be respectful of our all volunteer Staff. We probably will not put up with a whole lot directed at us. I received a few PM's from members thanking me for allowing this thread to continue and without censoring. And thanking me for allowing differing opinions than mine. And we will continue to allow that.

 

However, it is never wise to start a war directly with the Admin (or calling the Admin an insult referring to male genitalia). It will not end well for your membership status. And I'm sorry to have to be that way. Please just give me (and our Staff) basic respect in your disagreeing responses. For the thousands of hours we have put into S4GRU for you all, we deserve at least that much.

 

S4GRU is not a business. We are a member supported forum.

 

Robert

[Bob Newhart]

On top of that both Sprint and Verizon are projected to run out of spectrum in the next two years if they stand pat(and sprint has issues with clearwire). New spectrum cannot be manufactured. Once it is tapped out thats it.

 

As mentioned on this site, the spectrum isn't running out, its that the cell phone companies aren't building the cell towers close enough to each other. The more towers they have, the service area of each tower will be less. They point the radio antennas closer in. Look at Europe in the their large cities, they have cell towers in all manner of objects, people's house drain pipes, churches, lower power too.

[S4GRU]

As mentioned on this site, the spectrum isn't running out, its that the cell phone companies aren't building the cell towers close enough to each other. The more towers they have, the service area of each tower will be less. They point the radio antennas closer in. Look at Europe in the their large cities, they have cell towers in all manner of objects, people's house drain pipes, churches, lower power too.

 

I agree with this statement, we are far from a spectrum crisis. However, if American wireless companies have to build denser networks because we have unreasonable data habits (like refusing to offload even when it is convenient for us), then that will mean more cost for us.

 

In Europe, they build denser networks because they have denser populations. If the United States is going to have to build the density of networks to serve less people per cell/sector, then we are going to have to pay for that luxury.

 

Large scale WiFi offload at home adoption will push out the requirement to make networks denser farther out.

 

Robert

[Paynefanbro]

I know that in much of NYC, Cable providers like Optimum, Time Warner and even xfinity, have set up city wide Wifi networks, to the point where, I can take the bus from the train station to my house and not lose a Wifi signal because my phone will keep switching. I always use this unless I occasionally drop out of the Wifi radius. If more people took advantage of this, I think data speeds would be something that we wouldn't have to worry about anymore.

[mellimel2212]

 

Do you fail to understand that Sprint is fighting for its own existence in a market in which VZW and AT&T are continuously using anti competitive measures to stack the deck against the smaller players? To stay relevant, Sprint practically has no choice but to offer unlimited data. If Sprint did not offer unlimited data, then many of you would churn to VZW and AT&T, which would then gain even greater market share, even more dominance over the competition, and even more clout with which to implement anti consumer policies.

 

If you like Sprint as a competitive foil to those oligopolistic asshats VZW and AT&T, then stop screwing Sprint and the rest of us.

 

AJ

 

One question arent u a moderator haha

 

Sent from my white Epic 4g Touch

[mellimel2212]

 

One question arent u a moderator haha u went hard

 

Sent from my white Epic 4g Touch

 

Sent from my white Epic 4g Touch

[lynyrd65]

When I take into consideration how expensive my isp comcast is and how great of a value sprint is, im far more eager to push comcast for usage as much as possible. I hate paying for a connection thats suppose to be 12- 16mb and usually tops out at 6-8 mb but that the cable nazi for ya... so for me , assessing the value of each providers pricing should be a part of your decision of who to push your usage to when given a choice....

 

For me the offloading vs no decision is easy. My home cox connection is a consistent 15-16 mbps so I offload. My campus connection is 5-20 mb mbps so I offload. Because sprint 3g is vastly slower than those speeds I offload. However, if I had access to sprint LTE I could see it going one of two ways. I get lazy and always leave LTE on or I offload still because 3 mbps is all I need.

 

sent from my 3VO from another EVO