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Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market


Ace41690

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I have no idea if it has increased to 80MHz in Crown Heights but pings and speeds are pretty much unchanged. I'm still getting the same ~600-650Mbps speeds in my house as before.

5b1txk.jpg

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Finally got the chance to test SA n71 speeds on my home site this morning. I noticed my phone was stuck on it for a few minutes.

C305hdL.png

I also got over 300Mbps on my home site on LTE for the first time.

QhDPqNt.png

Side note: 80MHz is definitely active in Crown Heights. The most noticeable improvement is upload speeds which are now going as high as 118Mbps but averaging 112-115Mbps.

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n41 when you give it sufficient backhaul

vGZREJC.png89kLRXn.png

mmWave from the same site

LJ5TuqD.png

10MHz of Standalone n71 from the same site

JdH5NZC.png

This is the same site where I got nearly 800Mbps a while back, eNB ID 41047.

p0VbdXD.jpg 

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1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

n41 when you give it sufficient backhaul

vGZREJC.png89kLRXn.png

mmWave from the same site

LJ5TuqD.png

10MHz of Standalone n71 from the same site

JdH5NZC.png

This is the same site where I got nearly 800Mbps a while back, eNB ID 41047.

p0VbdXD.jpg 

Any LAA on that n41 test?

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Posted (edited)

When you have Comcast fiber backhaul. 
West Chester, Pennsylvania.

 

 

2F444CF5-E538-4E5F-9BBA-D26B780F9395.jpeg

0CB71257-C187-4690-A36A-66D94861623A.png

Edited by PA TECH
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3 hours ago, PA TECH said:

Any LAA on that n41 test?

Unable to confirm since I'm on iOS but the site does have LAA antennas and here's an LTE speed test from the same site around the same time.

UKOB5CQ.png

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Posted (edited)

eNB 56432 recently got the the 6449 treatment, and its one of my favorites to test, as the sector that covers the church next door is usually empty. Was able to get 300+ Mbps with B2+B66+B12 from it before the 20 MHz B2 bump. Sadly it has the same limitation most towers have; 1 Gig backhaul.

Pic of the sector from the staircase at the church:
8Tv8JE1.jpg

Two tests from inside the church:
iLezo7l.pngSUg4MnA.png

Another 2 tests from outside on the staircase:
z8ck1LK.pngOIkPhom.png

All 4 tests are B66+n41. The A71 comes with the X52 Qualcomm modem, so when the NR bandwidth is >60 MHz, the PCC band drops from 4x4 to 2x2. Before the bump from 60 to 80 MHz, the PCC would be at 2x2 with B66 and B2 enabled, and disabling B2 leaves B66 at 4x4, or vice versa. Plenty of hardware limitations with this device, so it won't be able to fully take advantage of the spectrum deployed, but for now it doesn't matter, since backhaul is the more apparent problem.

Edited by T-MoblieUser207
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I was on Box St in Greenpoint last night and finally got to experience T-Mobile's network for an extended period of time in the neighborhood. 

While outdoors, I generally had a decent LTE signal but poor 5G signal. It seems like my phone was bouncing between two T-Mobile sites, eNB 42891 in Greenpoint and eNB 41061 in Long Island City. Performance was usable but still much worse than what I typically see in other neighborhoods throughout the city. Even after midnight I was only getting maximum speeds of around 30Mbps outdoors on LTE. As soon as I went inside any building, I'd drop down to 1 bar of LTE and occasionally, I'd even see no signal at all.

Luckily T-Mobile is allowing their users to roam onto the Sprint tower (eNB 74366). Occasionally while indoors I'd see my signal strength shoot up and I would get over 70Mbps on that single Band 41 carrier.

 

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Does anyone have an explanation for why Sprint's towers with the AAHF panel have each sector of B41 with a separate eNB? In Gowanus Brooklyn, I knew where the Sprint tower is thanks to the AAHF giving it away, and I was able to locate all 3 sectors, but its was a guessing game to find one of its sectors since its number sequence was different. It's also not the first tower I know of with each sector having a different eNB. B25/26 don't have this issue, AAHF or not, all 3 sectors share the same eNB, its only B41 from the AAHF panels, as eNB 9055 does not have AAHF panels and has B41 all under one eNB.

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I have taken 2 long trips across the Bronx and short one, with Cellmapper active and running on all trips. I think I have enough data to assess 2.5 GHz holdings in the Bronx, but if there are any errors, feel free to correct me.

Parts of the Bronx actually match the rest of the city. The same way Brooklyn has 2 types of n41 deployment is the same way the Bronx and Manhattan has 2 sets of n41 deployments. My entire Bx6 bus ride from 157th St (1) station to the Hunts Points (6) station had 2680 only on Sprint, and 80 MHz n41. The Hunts Point Avenue 6 stop is a strange one, and I need to take a trip back to check it again, but T-Mo may have 2xCA of B41 live on eNB 130682. I found both 2538.2 and 2558 live, but the strange thing is that tower also has 80 MHz n41, which means 2558 and 80 MHz n41 are overlapping by nearly 10 MHz! The speed test of the 80 MHz n41 here was limited by backhaul, as it had trouble going above 500 Mbps.

Eastward further into the Bronx on the Bx5, as soon as the bus took the ramp to cross the Bronx River, 40 MHz n41 started showing up. Funny enough, this area of NYC still has 2xCA on Sprint live, with the carriers being 2599 and 2645.8. Same type of setup I found in South Brooklyn. This matches the findings on my first long trip.

In Dec 2020, when I made a short trip to the Bronx, T-Mobile did 2599 for their LTE block. eNB 138947 shows this as of today, until it gets updated. Eventually they switched to 2558, and now 2538.2. Today, I checked the area I mapped in Dec 2020, and luckily enough, I found a tower that I picked up 3xCA from Sprint. I don't know the EARFCN of n41 at the time, as I didn't take a screenshot of it on that trip. I would guess its the same EARFCN of n41 carrier that I found in Coney Island in October 2020, with 20 MHz n41 at the time.

Organized layout of all the active blocks I have found: (center frequency, bandwidth [frequency boundary] = deployment)
* = same deployment citywide

2523.8, 10 MHz [2518.8 to 2528.8] = Sprint LTE small cells  *
2538.2, 20 MHz [2528.2 to 2548.2] = T-Mobile LTE macros  *
2558, 20 MHz [2548 to 2568] = formerly T-Mo LTE macros(except eNB 130682)  *
2599, 20 MHz [2589 to 2609] = former T-Mo LTE macros, current Sprint LTE macros
2645.8, 20 MHz [2635.8 to 2655.8] = Sprint LTE macros
2660.2, 20 MHz [2650.2 to 2670.2] = formerly Sprint macros
2680, 20 MHz [2670 to 2690] = formerly Sprint macros
2660.55, 40 MHz [2640.55 to 2680.55] = T-Mo NR macros
2558.55, 20 MHz [2548.55 to 2568.55] = former T-Mo NR macros


If you read this correctly, yes, T-Mobile currently has a Sprint LTE carrier (2645.8) overlapping with their NR carrier. I don't know why, but that is what the devices have picked up. My guess is the Sprint carrier is only "engaged" when a Sprint device passes by, similar to what T-Mo did years ago when they had B2 doing GSM, 5 Mhz HSPA, and 10 MHz LTE, all within the 10 MHz of B2 they owned, for a few months before they fully shut B2 HSPA down.

I would love to see what moves T-Mo makes to get both the Bronx and South Brooklyn areas to 60 MHz n41 or higher. Either the upcoming auction, or buying/leasing from the Archdiocese of NY and Rockville Centre and the squatter Nextwave may help.

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Does anyone have a Sprint magic box still active? I wonder what is the eNB numbering scheme for them, as I found Sprint eNB 1025011 using 2558 MHz as the middle frequency. Wasn't able to check if its 10 or 20 MHz though. If its not a magic box, the TAC is different from pre-merger Sprint and current T-Mo TACs in the area, so it can't be a small cell.

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11 minutes ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I wonder what is the eNB numbering scheme for them, as I found Sprint eNB 1025011 using 2558 MHz as the middle frequency. 

My understanding is that femtos get eNBs >1,000,000 on T-Mobile. 

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3 minutes ago, RAvirani said:

My understanding is that femtos get eNBs >1,000,000 on T-Mobile. 

Yeah, on T-Mo that's how it is. Here are the images from the Sprint eNB I found: image.png.3397874698c1f1303ddd76dbf072ffa2.pngimage.png.82db67ed6c9cc9a9f63405bd855b7ef9.png

The numbering scheme matches T-Mobile femto setup. However, last I heard T-Mobile was planning on turning all the Magic Boxes into paperweights, so if its a magic box, I'm surprised it is still active.

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7 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Does anyone have a Sprint magic box still active? I wonder what is the eNB numbering scheme for them, as I found Sprint eNB 1025011 using 2558 MHz as the middle frequency. Wasn't able to check if its 10 or 20 MHz though. If its not a magic box, the TAC is different from pre-merger Sprint and current T-Mo TACs in the area, so it can't be a small cell.

I have an active Magic Box and the eNB is 1025026-118.

It is on 2518.4.

This is in Raleigh NC.

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NYC DOITT database was updated about a month ago. Imported all the new oDAS node locations into my map. Haven't yet spotted anything with the new design in my travels through Williamsburg & Bushwick. Almost 1400 newly proposed nodes (since 3/5/21) is pretty incredible, though.

Made my way up to Harlem and City College this past week. The site (eNB 55893) covering the north side of the campus STILL hasn't been upgraded from B2/B66 (dual APX16s). Pulled ~70Mb/s down on what is essentially an empty campus. Wish I knew what the deal is with that site. I almost wonder if it might be easier to work with the school and keep the Sprint site on top of the engineering building (Steinman Hall, across the street from their current site), instead.

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4 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

NYC DOITT database was updated about a month ago. Imported all the new oDAS node locations into my map. Haven't yet spotted anything with the new design in my travels through Williamsburg & Bushwick. Almost 1400 newly proposed nodes (since 3/5/21) is pretty incredible, though.

A ton of them are from Extenet which afaik is Verizon's primary small cell partner here. I also see a bunch for Mobilitie which was Sprint's primary partner and Crown Castle which is T-Mobile's primary partner. I wonder if T-Mobile plans on contracting both for small cells going forward. If so, that's a lot of combined potential small cells, though still less than Extenet. By far the least are New Cingular which is likely AT&T.

The wildcard is Transit Wireless who seems to be branching out of the subway system and is deploying quite a few new sites.

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14 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

NYC DOITT database was updated about a month ago. Imported all the new oDAS node locations into my map. Haven't yet spotted anything with the new design in my travels through Williamsburg & Bushwick. Almost 1400 newly proposed nodes (since 3/5/21) is pretty incredible, though.

Made my way up to Harlem and City College this past week. The site (eNB 55893) covering the north side of the campus STILL hasn't been upgraded from B2/B66 (dual APX16s). Pulled ~70Mb/s down on what is essentially an empty campus. Wish I knew what the deal is with that site. I almost wonder if it might be easier to work with the school and keep the Sprint site on top of the engineering building (Steinman Hall, across the street from their current site), instead.

Also haven't yet seen the new design in the wild. The oDAS build in NYC is quite weird, too. One was just put up by Crown Castle NG by me after being reserved in 2016. Another is in progress (but taking months) and proposed in 2019. It just seems so random. Too bad we can't truly tell which is used by which carrier.

Edited by AirlineFlyer
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I saw some engineers adding Band/n41 to eNB 41064 in Bed-Stuy yesterday.

99EkUwK.jpg

I also just noticed while driving yesterday that eNB 56457 is one of the few (only?) sites in NYC that has the same setup the T-Mobile typically uses in other markets.

P86JaBZ.jpg

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Saw today that T-Mobile finally added n41 to eNB 50319 in Fort Greene. This site already had LAA and mmWave but with limited backhaul topped out at about 500 Mbps.

eNB 56195, which is basically across the street, appears to be unchanged and without any 5G equipment.

16119EE3-E789-45C8-BB50-9F5B92992B67.jpeg

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image.pngimage.png

Spotted this interesting setup in Williamsburg, around 200 Meserole St. Based on Streetview, it seems to have been installed back in mid-2019. It doesn't appear in the DOITT database, so I'm guessing it's not standard cellular. Anyone know what it might be?

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13 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

image.pngimage.png

Spotted this interesting setup in Williamsburg, around 200 Meserole St. Based on Streetview, it seems to have been installed back in mid-2019. It doesn't appear in the DOITT database, so I'm guessing it's not standard cellular. Anyone know what it might be?

It belongs to ConEd for "smart" electric meter reading.

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On 6/19/2021 at 9:31 PM, AirlineFlyer said:

Saw today that T-Mobile finally added n41 to eNB 50319 in Fort Greene. This site already had LAA and mmWave but with limited backhaul topped out at about 500 Mbps.

eNB 56195, which is basically across the street, appears to be unchanged and without any 5G equipment.

16119EE3-E789-45C8-BB50-9F5B92992B67.jpeg

eNB 56195 is now also undergoing work. Ericsson is on the roof right now installing new antennas and cabling. An antenna that wasn't there yesterday looks to be a low band antenna, but I'm not totally sure which and don't have a fantastic view. No n41 antenna spotted yet but the work is ongoing.

 

Higher resolution image here: https://imgur.com/a/moyQ6Ol

 

EF700B87-70C9-43E2-AC1B-F243A9A438F4.jpeg

Edited by AirlineFlyer
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1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

Found another one of those gigabit capable n41 sites in the East Village. I took this test while indoors yesterday evening.

eNB 51909

D2Ay7vU.png

Do you know how much N41 is available there?  80?  100?

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    • At least a few sites in STL are now at 100 MHz.
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