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Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market


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27 minutes ago, Jordanskills134 said:

Was surprised when I read your message. So, I ventured out with a Verizon friend. The coverage between stations was exactly the same as T-Mobile. None of the carriers provide coverage in between stations on the subway.

Yeah same experience here. There are no DAS nodes in any of the tunnels besides the tunnel under the East River between Bedford and 1st Ave on the L train. Maybe in between stations that are super close together like Beverly Road and Cortelyou Road on the Q you can hold onto signal between stations since they're literally a block away from one another. But in between most other stations I drop out of service on both T-Mobile and Verizon.

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I was on lunch today at tmobile checking out their plan prices. One of the reps came up and asked what service you on? I said Sprint and she immediately went on this rant on how sprint is slow, ouch

Its finally happened!!!! Sprint overtook Tmobile on Netindex in Manhattan!!     Next...Verizon!!

First off. You need to read up a bit more before you start complaining about speeds.Sprints 5x5 has a maximum theoretical output of 37.5mbps DL and ~ 14 mbps UL. The theoretical maximum is the absolut

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mmWave + LAA site in Prospect Heights finally got n41. eNB 41047 if anyone wants to map it on Cellmapper or try to get over 1 Gbps on it.

l0gkYAX.png

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3 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

eNB 44643. Don't think this is too far from you, @Paynefanbro. Speeds were okay (248/18.6), but I was a couple blocks away from the site.

Awesome NR aggregation! That site usually has very spotty speeds. Sometimes I connect and get over 300Mbps and other times I connect and it struggles to go over 100Mbps. So the speeds you got given that you were a few blocks away are pretty impressive. Were pings noticeably lower?

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13 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Awesome NR aggregation! That site usually has very spotty speeds. Sometimes I connect and get over 300Mbps and other times I connect and it struggles to go over 100Mbps. So the speeds you got given that you were a few blocks away are pretty impressive. Were pings noticeably lower?

14ms, so about what I typically get on n71 SA (or n41 NSA). I wonder if it might have been better if n41 was the PCC...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Had to pick up a family member at JFK today and was surprised at how good speeds were. Not every site has 5G enabled yet but on those that do, T-Mobile's network performance was more than satisfactory.

I waited in the Western Cell Phone Lot and I believe that T-Mobile has some sort of DAS system there because my phone indicated LTE in the status bar which it really only does when I'm extremely close to a small cell or out of 5G coverage completely. Cycling airplane mode would put me on a strong 5G signal but I would get bumped back down to LTE within 30 seconds. These are my speeds in the lot: 

JgFmCSM.png

At the arrivals area at Terminal 5. I was bouncing between 1-2 bars of 5G but still getting great speeds:

htuCEiK.png

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Just saw a crew working on eNB 40400 in Brooklyn. The site already had n41 so I wonder what work they’re doing?

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On 4/26/2021 at 11:16 AM, Paynefanbro said:

Just saw a crew working on eNB 40400 in Brooklyn. The site already had n41 so I wonder what work they’re doing?

Spot anything new?

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On 4/27/2021 at 12:52 PM, thisischuck01 said:

Spot anything new?

Just visited the site and I can't see that anything was changed from before. Maybe they were doing some maintenance to it or made a less visible upgrade, something like changing one of the RRU's.

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eNB 41959 at the corner of Nostrand and Jefferson Ave in Bed-Stuy was upgraded and now has Band 71 and Band 41. What separates it from other upgrades though is that T-Mobile completely removed all legacy equipment from it. It has one Ericsson Band/n41 antenna and two of those multi-band antennas that T-Mobile has been putting on every upgraded site in NYC lately. It's a really clean set up. I'll try to go to it to take photos sometime this week.

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On 2/24/2021 at 12:46 PM, thisischuck01 said:

Did a bit of mapping in the Greenpoint area, as well. Only two of the five sites between Nassau Ave and Newtown Creek have been upgraded with n41, so still a bit of work that needs to be done. Unfortunately, the Sprint site on Ash Ave doesn't seem to be designated as a keep site.

Stopped by this area again. STILL doesn't look like this is going to be a keep site. 

Not really sure what T-Mobile is thinking here. Lots of new high rise development on both sides of the creek and T-Mobile service is total crap. 

T-Mobile:

Screenshot-20210501-175252-Cell-Mapper.jScreenshot-20210501-175239-Speedtest.jpg

n41 is on the closest site, though I don't believe it's on the serving site (across the creek). This test was taken outside, which likely means that even if n41 was deployed you'd either get a very poor signal or no n41 signal indoors. Upload test failed.

Sprint:

Screenshot-20210501-175538-Cell-Mapper.jScreenshot-20210501-175505-Speedtest.jpg

Locked to a single 20MHz B41 carrier.

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49 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

Stopped by this area again. STILL doesn't look like this is going to be a keep site. 

Not really sure what T-Mobile is thinking here. Lots of new high rise development on both sides of the creek and T-Mobile service is total crap. 

T-Mobile:

n41 is on the closest site, though I don't believe it's on the serving site (across the creek). This test was taken outside, which likely means that even if n41 was deployed you'd either get a very poor signal or no n41 signal indoors. Upload test failed.

Sprint:

Locked to a single 20MHz B41 carrier.

I was in Greenpoint and LIC on Friday and was saying to myself that I hope T-Mobile keeps that site right by the creek. It's a shame that that doesn't seem to be the case.

With all of the new buildings going up near the waterfront, T-Mobile has virtually one site (eNB 45653) to cover all of the high-rises along the Long Island City waterfront and one site (eNB 42891) to barely cover Greenpoint Landing (which when complete will add 5,500 new units to the neighborhood). That's not good. T-Mobile needs to be a lot more proactive about building new sites in rapidly developing neighborhoods. For comparison, Starrett City in southeast Brooklyn has ~5,800 units and T-Mobile has 3 sites covering it.

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On 4/13/2021 at 9:25 AM, Jordanskills134 said:

Was surprised when I read your message. So, I ventured out with a Verizon friend. The coverage between stations was exactly the same as T-Mobile. None of the carriers provide coverage in between stations on the subway.

My apologies, I should have clarified better.

Along straight sections of the subway system with close stations, say the 1/2/3 from 14th to 42nd, you can hold onto signal into the tunnels better with AT&T/Verizon/Sprint thanks to their lowband being installed, compared to T-Mobile with no lowband that immediately drops once you leave a station. It won't work everywhere, especially around curves of the subway system, as there is no dedicated tunnel cell coverage yet.

On 4/13/2021 at 10:30 AM, Paynefanbro said:

Yeah same experience here. There are no DAS nodes in any of the tunnels besides the tunnel under the East River between Bedford and 1st Ave on the L train. Maybe in between stations that are super close together like Beverly Road and Cortelyou Road on the Q you can hold onto signal between stations since they're literally a block away from one another. But in between most other stations I drop out of service on both T-Mobile and Verizon.

From Prospect Park Station B/Q/S to Newkirk Plaza B/Q is basically all outdoors, although the line is in a trench, in that area I have never lost T-Mobile signal on a train there. The network places me on B12/71 at Parkside and Church Avenue stations, besides those stations its easy to find T-Mo B2/66.

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2.5 GHz allocations have changed again.

2538.2 (20 MHz) is now showing up on T-Mobile macros, was formerly on Sprint small cells, yet 2558 (20 MHz) is gone. Every macro that I have mapped before April 17th that had 2558 on it, it got replaced with 2538.2. Maybe they plan on going straight to 100 from 60? 60 MHz n41 is 2.5 MHz away from the 2558 MHz block, and the former 2640.4 MHz B41 Sprint block is still dormant, which means the spectrum above and below of 60 MHz n41 they own. Currently 40 MHz of spectrum is now idle (2558 and the former 2640.4 Sprint block), up from 20. Currently:

(Center frequency, bandwidth = location)
2523.8, 10 MHz = Sprint small cells
2538.2, 20 MHz = T-Mobile macros
2558, 20 MHz = Formerly on T-Mobile macros, currently not in use
2600.55, 60 MHz = T-Mobile n41
2660.2, 20 MHz = Sprint B41 on macros

2680, 20 MHz = Sprint B41 on macros

The only universal allocation consistent across all 5 boroughs seem to be 2538.2 and 2558 for LTE, the rest don't match what is being done in the Bronx/South Brooklyn. I probably will take another trip to the Bronx and check the allocations there, as its seems like the same allocations in the Bronx are the same things being done in South Brooklyn. I was able to find 40 MHz n41 as far north as the Avenue H stop on the Q (T-Mobile eNB 53556/475086), still trying to decipher where the line between 60 MHz and 40 MHz n41 begins/ends in Brooklyn.

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On 5/2/2021 at 12:34 PM, Paynefanbro said:

eNB 41959 at the corner of Nostrand and Jefferson Ave in Bed-Stuy was upgraded and now has Band 71 and Band 41. What separates it from other upgrades though is that T-Mobile completely removed all legacy equipment from it. It has one Ericsson Band/n41 antenna and two of those multi-band antennas that T-Mobile has been putting on every upgraded site in NYC lately. It's a really clean set up. I'll try to go to it to take photos sometime this week.

Someone posted a photo of another site in Brooklyn that seems to have been upgraded recently with the same setup as I was describing. I can't tell if they're doing this because the rack size itself is pretty small and seems to only fit the 3 antennas or if it's indicative of a growing trend. Personally, if I were T-Mobile I would just set up all of my sites like this.

 

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3 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

I can't tell if they're doing this because the rack size itself is pretty small and seems to only fit the 3 antennas or if it's indicative of a growing trend. Personally, if I were T-Mobile I would just set up all of my sites like this.

I think that 3 antenna setup is pretty standard. Just depends on if they feel like totally replacing what was there already. We only get two antennas out here in Nebraska since we don't have any B12. (B2/66/71 + B41)

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48 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Someone posted a photo of another site in Brooklyn that seems to have been upgraded recently with the same setup as I was describing. I can't tell if they're doing this because the rack size itself is pretty small and seems to only fit the 3 antennas or if it's indicative of a growing trend. Personally, if I were T-Mobile I would just set up all of my sites like this.

 

I'm a little confused as to why they're leaving up old hardware, as well. As far as I know, they should be able to broadcast LTE (B2/B66), HSPA+, and EDGE via the new RFS APX antennas they're using. I figured they were using the legacy antennas for HSPA+/EDGE, but I've since seen a few instances on Reddit where they're left up (and are still hooked up) on sites that don't broadcast legacy RAN. So who knows. Maybe something to do with prepping for shutting down Sprint sites? None of these antennas list OBW/IBW, but maybe there's some sort of limitation?

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54 minutes ago, Dkoellerwx said:

I think that 3 antenna setup is pretty standard. Just depends on if they feel like totally replacing what was there already. We only get two antennas out here in Nebraska since we don't have any B12. (B2/66/71 + B41)

In NYC, a setup like this with 4 antennas is a lot more common. No idea why they leave behind the legacy antenna behind.

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