Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[RAvirani]

22 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Does anyone know what that big panel with the split in it is on this T-Mobile site?

 

1 hour ago, thisischuck01 said:

Can't recall the model number off the top of my head, but it's a CommScope antenna. B2/B66 sector split. Don't believe they're rolling out this model anymore, the Ericsson 3246 is the new go-to.

 

Edit: Believe it's the CommScope 2HH‐38A‐R4.

2HH-38A-R4-V2. It has two 4x4 Rx/Tx chains, each with a 38° horizontal beamwidth. The gain figures are solid, ranging from 19.3-20 dBi on AWS/PCS. 

[wispiANt]

Moved into the Williamsburg area this past week and my speeds have suffered significantly. I'm ~1 block away from my serving cell and experiencing speeds <10Mb/s at most times. Fastest speed I've seen is 30Mb/s at 2AM. This is from a site with B2/B66/B12/B71 deployed, plus AIR 3246s running in split-sector mode on all three sectors.

Interestingly enough, it appears as most of the sites here with B71 don't have split eNBs (either the eNB was never split, or they've since been merged).

On the bright side, I've spotted n41 antennas on at least 3 sites within walking distance. Time to get mapping...

[Paynefanbro]

Did a lot of driving (but sadly no mapping) today in NYC, Long Island, and up to Woodbury.

Brooklyn to Westbury: 5G 98% of the time. About two small drops along the Northern State and one drop in Brooklyn near the intersection of Fulton and Eastern Parkway.

Westbury to Woodbury: 5G about 60% of the time. Driving through Long Island, Queens, and the Bronx I rarely left 5G coverage but once I got north of the Bronx I found myself dropping to LTE a lot more frequently. Sometimes it was simply because T-Mobile didn't have n71 on the site and other times it was because signal strength was poor in general and my phone would drop down to Band 12/Band 71. Because there's not SA-5G on the iPhone yet, I would drop 5G completely. There were a few 1-2 bar spots but there wasn't a single area where I dropped out of LTE coverage completely.

Woodbury Commons: 100% covered in 5G. I believe there are two sites that serve Woodbury Commons. 5G is on both of them but one site was overloaded while the other site performed well. The issue was that my phone would bounce between the two and if my phone ever switched to the worse performing site, data would come close to stalling. Speeds on the slow site were 0.6-2Mbps. On the faster site speeds were 60-90Mbps. I was also able to test the iPhone 12 Pro Max on Verizon in Woodbury. Sadly it was pretty much a brick. The area is covered in 5G but nothing would load at all. You can only make calls and send texts.

Woodbury to Brooklyn: This was the only portion of my trip where I dropped out of coverage completely. It was along the Long Mountain Parkway. This is one of those areas where standalone n71 would be super useful. During this portion of my trip, the Verizon iPhone I had on hand also lost signal completely. After getting off the Long Mountain Parkway I switched between 5G and LTE pretty often. I'd say I was on 5G about 70% of the time. 

[Paynefanbro]

The day is finally here it looks like. T-Mobile officially did the swap and made n41 60MHz across NYC and reduced Sprint's Band 41 to 40MHz. Upload speeds while connected to n41 have gone up significantly for me. I'm now getting up to 95Mbps up in my house.

According to OP it looks like in parts of the outer boroughs, post-Sprint Band 41 shutdown they'll be able to expand to 100MHz. 100MHz of n41 is the GSMA's recommendation for mid-band 5G. At that point we'd likely be able to get multi-gigabit speeds. 

Wherever they can't get a contiguous 100MHz they might try to buy CBRS to aggregate with n41 eventually or maybe pay a premium to the Archdiocese of NY or NextWave to outright buy the spectrum or transfer leases.

[Jordanskills134]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:14 AM, Paynefanbro said:

The day is finally here it looks like. T-Mobile officially did the swap and made n41 60MHz across NYC and reduced Sprint's Band 41 to 40MHz. Upload speeds while connected to n41 have gone up significantly for me. I'm now getting up to 95Mbps up in my house.

According to OP it looks like in parts of the outer boroughs, post-Sprint Band 41 shutdown they'll be able to expand to 100MHz. 100MHz of n41 is the GSMA's recommendation for mid-band 5G. At that point we'd likely be able to get multi-gigabit speeds. 

Wherever they can't get a contiguous 100MHz they might try to buy CBRS to aggregate with n41 eventually or maybe pay a premium to the Archdiocese of NY or NextWave to outright buy the spectrum or transfer leases.

Hi there! New to the site and see you have tons of input regarding T-Mobile and the utilization of Sprint towers. Any idea how I can determine whether I am actively connected to N41 on my OnePlus8t without root? 

 

Thanks again! 

[Paynefanbro]

13 hours ago, Jordanskills134 said:

Hi there! New to the site and see you have tons of input regarding T-Mobile and the utilization of Sprint towers. Any idea how I can determine whether I am actively connected to N41 on my OnePlus8t without root? 

 

Thanks again! 

Hey! Unfortunately I don't know if there's any way on OnePlus devices to view 5G information without rooting it. The best you can do is use an app like Cellmapper or SignalCheck Pro which would show you exactly when you're connected to 5G but they don't report what 5G band it is unless your phone is connected to SA 5G.

[Paynefanbro]

Couple of updates about T-Mobile's network in the areas I've been recently.

Crown Heights, Brooklyn: In northern Crown Heights a bunch of sites that missed out on n41 upgrades in late October/early November have recently received upgrades to include both n41 and n71. n41 coverage is now contiguous enough that you can travel across virtually the entirety of northern Crown Heights without dropping out of midband coverage now.

DUMBO, Brooklyn: T-Mobile still hasn't upgraded any of the sites in DUMBO. The area is almost entirely LTE only except for if you're near the waterfront where you'll pick up 5G from Manhattan that's being blasted across the East River. LTE speeds are more than adequate and 5G speeds when you connect are pretty good. I was getting ~100Mbps on 5G. In some parts of DUMBO I would drop down to 1-2 bars while indoors and not far away from a window. I would hope that when T-Mobile upgrades the sites in the neighborhood that range would improve somewhat thanks to new antennas and radio units.

City Island, The Bronx: The last time I was in City Island was sometime in the summer and there was only LTE at the time. Since then T-Mobile has added 5G to the only macro site on the island. I'm unable to confirm if it's n71 or n41 since I'm on an iPhone now but I'm assuming it's n71 given the range of the site and speeds. I was pretty far from the site and speeds were "slow" but still usable at around 15Mbps. The thing that stood out the most to me was that pings were higher on 5G there than in most areas I've tested within NYC. I never got a single ping below 40ms while there.

There are also two oDAS sites (I'm unable to confirm their location) that provide outdoor coverage along City Island Ave. I didn't get to run a speed test while connected to them but I did notice that my phone would drop 5G connection entirely and switch to the much stronger LTE signal whenever I got near them. They seem great for supplemental outdoor coverage but what T-Mobile really needs is another macro on the northern side of the island.

Longwood, The Bronx: I'm not familiar with neighborhoods in The Bronx but Google Maps says it's Longwood lol.

The last time I was here I was able to connect to n71 and get decent speeds. It appears that the site at the location that I was at now has n41. Speeds of 300-315Mbps on average. I don't know the BRS/EBS spectrum situation in The Bronx well enough to know if that area got upgraded to 60MHz but those speeds are great nonetheless.

All in all I'm really happy about the 5G progress being made here in the city.

[jaybiz81]

So I haven't posted in a minute, but today I decided to swap out my Sprint SIM for T-Mobile.  They sent me an email saying to go and get the best out of T-Mobile's network.  Boy, do I regret it.  My speeds dropped from 120 down and 10 up to 30 down and 0.5 up, and I'm on band 2 sometimes with band 4 for CA.  I'm hoping areas of the Bronx are better, but part of me wants to run back and grab my Sprint SIM even though I feel it's too late.  Anyone else having similar frustrations?  Non-5G device here... Note 10+ (not sure what my profile says anymore lol).  I mean at the end of the day, for what I do online, 30 is fine, but still, it'd be nice to see more.

Edit: I live near Dyckman.

[nexgencpu]

3 hours ago, jaybiz81 said:

So I haven't posted in a minute, but today I decided to swap out my Sprint SIM for T-Mobile.  They sent me an email saying to go and get the best out of T-Mobile's network.  Boy, do I regret it.  My speeds dropped from 120 down and 10 up to 30 down and 0.5 up, and I'm on band 2 sometimes with band 4 for CA.  I'm hoping areas of the Bronx are better, but part of me wants to run back and grab my Sprint SIM even though I feel it's too late.  Anyone else having similar frustrations?  Non-5G device here... Note 10+ (not sure what my profile says anymore lol).  I mean at the end of the day, for what I do online, 30 is fine, but still, it'd be nice to see more.

Edit: I live near Dyckman.

Bottom line: You NEED 5G phone for Tmobile in the Bronx, with it the performance is night and day, I average 50-150mbs and upto 50mb up in the Bx. Even with only 20mhz of N41 and 10Mhz of N71 it performs admirably. 

[mirskyc]

Loving the 60mhz of N41. Never seen triple digit upload before. 

 

[jaybiz81]

12 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

Bottom line: You NEED 5G phone for Tmobile in the Bronx, with it the performance is night and day, I average 50-150mbs and upto 50mb up in the Bx. Even with only 20mhz of N41 and 10Mhz of N71 it performs admirably. 

Good to know... I think I'm going to switch back to Sprint if I can.  I know that near my job near 3rd/Tremont, Sprint finally has great service with the installation and configuration of all of the small cells in the area.  Last night after I posted I was getting 6 down on B2, instead of the usual 150 on B41.

Does anyone know if I *can* switch back?  I'm going to hound Sprint, but you all might have quicker more real answers than the random reps I will get.

[Paynefanbro]

2 hours ago, jaybiz81 said:

Last night after I posted I was getting 6 down on B2, instead of the usual 150 on B41.

6Mbps is definitely out of the norm. Even on the horrible Band 4/66 oDAS that they have in my neighborhood I'm able to pull speeds in the teens at peak hours. Are you only connecting to Band 2?

The sites around 3rd Ave and Tremont in the Bronx all have Band 2/4/66/12/71 and there's at least one site with Band 41 according to Cellmapper.. I would expect much better performance than that. Maybe you should try a network settings reset or something like that.

[Paynefanbro]

n71 in Park Slope is pretty fast.

[transitwatch889]

Having stand alone access isn't what is cracked up to be when you lose lte to nr carrier aggregate. 

Switched my sim to R15 recently. Losing sprint in Subway travel blows. As T-Mobile takes longer to catch signal it seems.

[Paynefanbro]

2 hours ago, transitwatch889 said:

Having stand alone access isn't what is cracked up to be when you lose lte to nr carrier aggregate. 

For now, standalone makes the biggest difference in rural areas because T-Mobile often lacks mid-band antennas on their sties or has really poor mid-band coverage in those areas. SA 5G allows users in those areas to stay connected to 5G even if there is no AWS or PCS available.

In urban areas NSA 5G will be the better option until TDD-FDD NR Carrier Aggregation becomes more prominent and T-Mobile starts using parts of its AWS and PCS spectrum for 5G. At that point we'll still be able to get super fast speeds but with super low pings at the same time.

2 hours ago, transitwatch889 said:

Switched my sim to R15 recently. Losing sprint in Subway travel blows. As T-Mobile takes longer to catch signal it seems.

That's weird. The DAS deployed by Transit Wireless is carrier agnostic so performance should be similar.

[wispiANt]

Finally back in NYC and it seems as though my serving site in Williamsburg has been upgraded with B41! Still pulling single digits (or slightly better) on B2/B66/B71 (or B12) CA, but if I lock to B41 I can consistently pull 50+ Mb/s. Interestingly enough, signal actually seems to be a few dBM better than the corresponding B66 signal (even though my OP6T doesn't support HPUE). Unfortunately can't check out the site for another week (due to quarantining), but in the meantime I'm taking a serious look into upgrading to something in the S21 range... 

[wispiANt]

A follow-up on my previous post:

Have been doing some more testing on my local site as my speeds are really suffering.

B2/B66 CA:

This site was previously equipped with B12 and B71, which shared an eNB with the B2 and B66 carriers. However, with the (assumed) B41 upgrade, B12 and B71 were switched to a new eNB. It doesn't appear as though inter-eNB CA has been enabled, which explains why my speeds are now in the single digits. 

B12/B71:

B12 and B71 now have a fun new eNB numbering scheme that doesn't follow anything T-Mobile has previously done in NYC!

B41:

B41 a cool 1300% increase over B2/B66. Standard 14xxxx eNB numbering here.

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, thisischuck01 said:

A follow-up on my previous post:

Have been doing some more testing on my local site as my speeds are really suffering.

 

Your images aren't loading on my end.

[clbowens]

15 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Your images aren't loading on my end.

Same here

[wispiANt]

Should be fixed now, thanks for the heads up!

[Paynefanbro]

4 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

A follow-up on my previous post:

Have been doing some more testing on my local site as my speeds are really suffering.

B2/B66 CA:

This site was previously equipped with B12 and B71, which shared an eNB with the B2 and B66 carriers. However, with the (assumed) B41 upgrade, B12 and B71 were switched to a new eNB. It doesn't appear as though inter-eNB CA has been enabled, which explains why my speeds are now in the single digits. 

B12/B71:

B12 and B71 now have a fun new eNB numbering scheme that doesn't follow anything T-Mobile has previously done in NYC!

B41:

B41 a cool 1300% increase over B2/B66. Standard 14xxxx eNB numbering here.

I don't know how I didn't notice you were using a OnePlus 6T this entire time. Maybe a 5G device will give you much better performance. In Williamsburg, I'm usually getting around 65Mbps on 5G during peak times. I highly suggest any Samsung phone for people who like to test networks but the S21 series looks great for more reasons than that.

Also does your phone default to Band 41? I've noticed in my home that if I switch my phone to LTE-only mode my phone will get parked on Band 41 as opposed to Band 66 or Band 2. Peak speeds aren't as high but it has much more available capacity so average speeds are much higher.

[Paynefanbro]

19 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

I don't know how I didn't notice you were using a OnePlus 6T this entire time. Maybe a 5G device will give you much better performance. In Williamsburg, I'm usually getting around 65Mbps on 5G during peak times. I highly suggest any Samsung phone for people who like to test networks but the S21 series looks great for more reasons than that.

Also does your phone default to Band 41? I've noticed in my home that if I switch my phone to LTE-only mode my phone will get parked on Band 41 as opposed to Band 66 or Band 2. Peak speeds aren't as high but it has much more available capacity so average speeds are much higher.

Follow up to this comment, I was in Williamsburg today on Grand St and got these speeds. This are was one of the first areas where I spotted Band 41 from T-Mobile. I don't know what 5G band I was on here but speeds were good.

[Paynefanbro]

Was near SUNY Downstate today and speeds were great as usual on n41. Every site surrounding the hospital has n41 on it so there's a ton of capacity and speeds are easily > 300Mbps pretty much everywhere in the area. One thing I have noticed consistently is that when I get near the Lenox Ave entrance of the hospital my phone automatically gets kicked down to LTE. Speeds on LTE are about 35Mbps down and up.

Typically the only time I get shoved onto LTE is when I'm near a small cell but as far as I can tell, there are no small cells nearby so I have to wonder why my phone/the network keeps kicking me down to LTE at the same spot.

[wispiANt]

Quote

A follow-up on my previous post:

Have been doing some more testing on my local site as my speeds are really suffering.

B2/B66 CA:

This site was previously equipped with B12 and B71, which shared an eNB with the B2 and B66 carriers. However, with the (assumed) B41 upgrade, B12 and B71 were switched to a new eNB. It doesn't appear as though inter-eNB CA has been enabled, which explains why my speeds are now in the single digits. 

B12/B71:

B12 and B71 now have a fun new eNB numbering scheme that doesn't follow anything T-Mobile has previously done in NYC!

B41:

B41 a cool 1300% increase over B2/B66. Standard 14xxxx eNB numbering here.

 

Honestly, this is just a complaint about poor network optimization than anything else. For comparison:

B2:
RSRP: -102dBM
RSSI: -68dBM
Speedtest: 6Mb/s on 15MHz

B66:
RSRP: -108dBM
RSSI: -70dBM
Speedtest: 3Mb/s on 20MHz

B41:
RSRP: -108dBM
RSSI: -80dBM
Speedtest: 70Mb/s on 20MHz

I have two sites nearby: one on the same avenue but 1200ft (4 blocks) away, and the other (my primary serving cell) is less than 500ft (a block as the crow flies, a block and a half if you were to walk) away. The B41 deployment on my primary site delivers great performance, even with a relatively poor RSSI, because it’s uncongested and there’s no interference between these two cell sites. 

B66/B2 are likely somewhat congested, but interference is definitely affecting performance here - the B66 SINR, in particular, is trash. If I walk around the corner (half a block closer towards my primary serving cell) I can typically pull >100Mb/s on B2/B66 LTE during peak hours.

But to answer your questions:

On 1/29/2021 at 11:55 PM, Paynefanbro said:

I don't know how I didn't notice you were using a OnePlus 6T this entire time. Maybe a 5G device will give you much better performance. In Williamsburg, I'm usually getting around 65Mbps on 5G during peak times. I highly suggest any Samsung phone for people who like to test networks but the S21 series looks great for more reasons than that.

Have a Galaxy S21 Ultra on order! Surprisingly, the OP6T hadn’t really been letting me down too much with performance, either network or user experience. Figured if I were to upgrade I should wait for the X60. Here’s hoping dual-SIM/eSIM gets worked out on the S21, I’m a big fan of that on the OP6T.

On 1/29/2021 at 11:55 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Also does your phone default to Band 41? I've noticed in my home that if I switch my phone to LTE-only mode my phone will get parked on Band 41 as opposed to Band 66 or Band 2. Peak speeds aren't as high but it has much more available capacity so average speeds are much higher.

As far as my primary serving cell goes, I have to band-lock (B2 is the default). As far as other sites go, it seems to be about a 50/50 chance. Might have something to do with the OP6T not supporting HPUE.
 

[wispiANt]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:18 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Was near SUNY Downstate today and speeds were great as usual on n41. Every site surrounding the hospital has n41 on it so there's a ton of capacity and speeds are easily > 300Mbps pretty much everywhere in the area. One thing I have noticed consistently is that when I get near the Lenox Ave entrance of the hospital my phone automatically gets kicked down to LTE. Speeds on LTE are about 35Mbps down and up.

Typically the only time I get shoved onto LTE is when I'm near a small cell but as far as I can tell, there are no small cells nearby so I have to wonder why my phone/the network keeps kicking me down to LTE at the same spot.

CellMapper seems to indicate there is an oDAS node near there (eNB ID 127069).