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Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market


Ace41690

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Seems only way to connect to NR is in combination with B2/4. With this combo I am seeing decent speeds(20-60mbs). But as some of you guys also mentioned the 5G logo is still coming up when B2/4 are PCC with or without NR. Unfortuntely, B2/4 are too weak to reach deep inside my apartment, so end up falling back to B12, which is pretty sh%t. 

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1 hour ago, transitwatch889 said:

I mentioned this is the s20 thread. But considering  how overloaded T-Mobile's network actually is the chances are relatively  high they would keep a lot of sprint sites for capacity  expansion  purposes no? NYC is not a good representation of the face they want to put on. Those smalls cells Sprint invested in def made a difference  as well. 

Even when I was on Google  fi i would force the network to Sprint in most cases.

I'm not so certain. Spectrum refarming is going to be T-Mobile's first choice to increase network capacity before they choose to keep a site. The cost of refarming spectrum is virtually zero when compared to adding keeping a cell site and the capacity boost is just as immediate.

Dish is leasing T-Mobile their 600MHz spectrum for a few years and the New T-Mobile now has a contiguous 25x25 of PCS and the 5x5 G-block. That's a 200% increase in PCS capacity compared to T-Mobile's network alone.

I think the bigger deal for New Yorkers isn't in keeping Sprint macro sites because T-Mobile's macro network is already very dense in this market. It's what they're going to do with Sprint's small cells. My hope is that they use them for mmWave. They could also leverage Sprint's existing deal with Altice and in suburban areas replace the Band 41 small cells they deployed with n41 small cells or mmWave small cells. It would embarrass Verizon if T-Mobile could blanket the city in mmWave spectrum before them. And it would be a case study in how to deploy mmWave outside of a "hotspot" configuration.

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18 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

I think the bigger deal for New Yorkers isn't in keeping Sprint macro sites because T-Mobile's macro network is already very dense in this market.

I have a feeling T-Mobile isn't as dense as Sprint is in NYC (especially if you include SC's). So far, in places I've been since having access to T-Mobile bands (granted, that's not very many places under these circumstances) signal is almost always weaker than Sprint. Of course, this only probably applies to a few cities in the US. Bottom line, it will be incredibly challenging for T-Mobile to be clearly better in all instances here in NYC than when T-Mobile and Sprint were separate entities.

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2 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

Seems only way to connect to NR is in combination with B2/4. With this combo I am seeing decent speeds(20-60mbs). But as some of you guys also mentioned the 5G logo is still coming up when B2/4 are PCC with or without NR. Unfortuntely, B2/4 are too weak to reach deep inside my apartment, so end up falling back to B12, which is pretty sh%t. 

That's why I specified the macro network.

There's zero doubt about T-Mobiles macro network being denser than Sprint in NYC. Sure there may be areas where the nearest Sprint site is closer but as a whole, T-Mobile has significantly more macro sites per square mile than Sprint in NYC.

We can see proof of that with how T-Mobile managed to provide continuous outdoor coverage across a large chunk of Manhattan on mmWave without using a single small cell. Even on the old Sensorly maps, the difference between T-Mobile and Sprint's macro networks was clear as day.

That said, Sprint's small cell strategy made up the difference and densified their Band 41 network significantly. So much so that Band 41 coverage on Sprint coverage seemed as good as T-Mobile's macro network while outdoors.

However I still think that T-Mobile should focus on repurposing those small cell sites and refarming spectrum first before they think about upgrading macro sites.

One thing we'll get out of this merger is 20MHz Band 66 + 20MHz Band 2 + 20 MHz Band 71 carrier aggregation in NYC which will provide performance similar to, if not better than Band 41 because it'll have greater uploads. This in combination with mmWave 5G or n41 and T-Mobile will have over 1Gbps worth of capacity per cell site in NYC along with the density provided by Sprint's small cell network.

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20 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

One thing we'll get out of this merger is 20MHz Band 66 + 20MHz Band 2 + 20 MHz Band 71 carrier aggregation in NYC which will provide performance similar to, if not better than Band 41 because it'll have greater uploads. This in combination with mmWave 5G or n41 and T-Mobile will have over 1Gbps worth of capacity per cell site in NYC along with the density provided by Sprint's small cell network.

 
 
 

While having access to that 60mhz of FDD spectrum is cool(not counting mmWave since that deployment seems to be on pause as far as I know and has limited availability ), you are not taking into consideration that T-Mobile customers are already occupying that spectrum and now they just added more into the mix with us Sprint customers. Also, I don't see how 60Mhz B41+40Mhz of N41 would be slower than what T-Mobile is currently broadcasting.

But I digress, I do appreciate the speed in which T-Mobile is making changes, its worlds faster than Sprint were ever allowed to be.

 

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2 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

While having access to that 60mhz of FDD spectrum is cool(not counting mmWave since that deployment seems to be on pause as far as I know and has limited availability ), you are not taking into consideration that T-Mobile customers are already occupying that spectrum and now they just added more into the mix with us Sprint customers. Also, I don't see how 60Mhz B41+40Mhz of N41 would be slower than what T-Mobile is currently broadcasting.

But I digress, I do appreciate the speed in which T-Mobile is making changes, its worlds faster than Sprint were ever allowed to be.

 

I am taking into account that T-Mobile customers are already on it. The combined carrier is far from spectrum starved, even T-Mobile in it's current state is really only limited by backhaul at this point. Verizon has a top performing network despite only having Band 2/5/66/13 and more customers than the New T-Mobile. In NYC Verizon has demonstrated speeds of nearly 750Mbps over LTE using 20MHz of Band 2, 20MHz of Band 66, and 10MHz of Band 13 alone. T-Mobile will have more spectrum than that available for LTE.

I also never said that 60MHz Band 41 + 40MHz of n41 would be slower than what T-Mobile is currently broadcasting. I was trying to point out that T-Mobile's LTE network could potentially better than Sprint Band 41 LTE network.

Also while the mmWave deployment was on hold due to the merger, T-Mobile and Sprint have participated in mmWave auctions recently so it's difficult to say for sure that it's on pause. The evidence is pointing toward deployment starting up again.

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6 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

I am taking into account that T-Mobile customers are already on it. The combined carrier is far from spectrum starved, even T-Mobile in it's current state is really only limited by backhaul at this point. Verizon has a top performing network despite only having Band 2/5/66/13 and more customers than the New T-Mobile. In NYC Verizon has demonstrated speeds of nearly 750Mbps over LTE using 20MHz of Band 2, 20MHz of Band 66, and 10MHz of Band 13 alone. T-Mobile will have more spectrum than that available for LTE.

I also never said that 60MHz Band 41 + 40MHz of n41 would be slower than what T-Mobile is currently broadcasting. I was trying to point out that T-Mobile's LTE network could potentially better than Sprint Band 41 LTE network.

Also while the mmWave deployment was on hold due to the merger, T-Mobile and Sprint have participated in mmWave auctions recently so it's difficult to say for sure that it's on pause. The evidence is pointing toward deployment starting up again.

 
 
 
 

I don't doubt it will be better in the end, I just feel that city folks will end up worse initially (more rural and suburban areas will see the most benefit at the beginning) At the end of the day, just worried about the road on the way to that "better end"

Hopefully I'm wrong...

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10 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

While having access to that 60mhz of FDD spectrum is cool(not counting mmWave since that deployment seems to be on pause as far as I know and has limited availability ), you are not taking into consideration that T-Mobile customers are already occupying that spectrum and now they just added more into the mix with us Sprint customers. Also, I don't see how 60Mhz B41+40Mhz of N41 would be slower than what T-Mobile is currently broadcasting.

But I digress, I do appreciate the speed in which T-Mobile is making changes, its worlds faster than Sprint were ever allowed to be.

 

I can add that TMobile is currently 10x10 B2 in NY sprints spectrum will allow that to increase 20x20 plus the 5x5 G block. When and if TMO shuts down H+ they would also have another 5x5 AWS to work with. Plus TMobile is also running LAA in NY

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2 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

I don't doubt it will be better in the end, I just feel that city folks will end up worse initially (more rural and suburban areas will see the most benefit at the beginning) At the end of the day, just worried about the road on the way to that "better end"

Hopefully I'm wrong...

Personally would like to see the Sprint sites converted first to T-Mobile before move Sprint customers over.  Market by market was mentioned in the public plans.

I became concerned to that the new T-Mobile was starting down the Nextel merger path after watching yesterday's Sprint S20s conversion to T-Mobile after saying it was to give n71 access, then seeing that they assumed all Sprint users would get better signal from T-Mobile, forgetting that many are self-selected to be near Sprint only sites or have working Magic Boxes. Fortunately this app was able to save them:

 

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8 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

Personally would like to see the Sprint sites converted first to T-Mobile before move Sprint customers over.  Market by market was mentioned in the public plans.

I became concerned to that the new T-Mobile was starting down the Nextel merger path after watching yesterday's Sprint S20s conversion to T-Mobile after saying it was to give n71 access, then seeing that they assumed all Sprint users would get better signal from T-Mobile, forgetting that many are self-selected to be near Sprint only sites or have working Magic Boxes. Fortunately this app was able to save them:

 

I've tried to force my network back to Sprint. When I attempt to the network is blanked out in signalcheck check I can see the towers but I have zero network access to it. I can see that T-Mobile has been 25 enabled on their Tower. But I no longer can connect to my normal Sprint home Tower at all. So it may be useful in a Market to Market basis.

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16 minutes ago, transitwatch889 said:

I've tried to force my network back to Sprint. When I attempt to the network is blanked out in signalcheck check I can see the towers but I have zero network access to it. I can see that T-Mobile has been 25 enabled on their Tower. But I no longer can connect to my normal Sprint home Tower at all. So it may be useful in a Market to Market basis.

Mine does connect, make sure roaming is enabled.

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2 minutes ago, nexgencpu said:

Mine does connect, make sure roaming is enabled.

I had to cycle roaming on and off for it to work.

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38 minutes ago, nexgencpu said:

Now this i can get behind! 

Woke up to this..

20mhz b71 https://imgur.com/gallery/O46IqV2

B71 went from 10mhz to 20! And now it's PCC. Speeds increased considerably.

Wonder what happened to N71?! I personally think this makes way more sense instead of a sliver of slow NR.

I'm surprised you didn't notice that before. But even when I first updated they had 20mhz on LTE only 10 MHz for NR. Which attributes to my chagrin of the current situation. That extra band of frequency is on loan from one of the other holders of the band 71 auction. So this current slice of frequency won't last very long unless they enter into a long-term agreement for it.

And also as everyone starts waking up and it starts getting aggregated with their other bands it will slow put a majority of the rest of the day down to like less than 10 down for a majority of the rest of the day. Rn 42 up and 50 down on singular 20mhz LTE, . 34 down 9 up on 10mhz NR

Adding: I do believe its Dish  spectrum so may stay online after.

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14 minutes ago, transitwatch889 said:

I'm surprised you didn't notice that before. But even when I first updated they had 20mhz on LTE only 10 MHz for NR. Which attributes to my chagrin of the current situation. That extra band of frequency is on loan from one of the other holders of the band 71 auction. So this current slice of frequency won't last very long unless they enter into a long-term agreement for it.

And also as everyone starts waking up and it starts getting aggregated with their other bands it will slow put a majority of the rest of the day down to like less than 10 down for a majority of the rest of the day. Rn 42 up and 50 down on singular 20mhz LTE, . 34 down 9 up on 10mhz NR

Adding: I do believe its Dish  spectrum so may stay online after.

Weird, I never connected to B71 at all till now, could be they just added B71 to a tower closer to me since signal is strong.

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1 minute ago, nexgencpu said:

Weird, I never connected to B71 at all till now, could be they just added B71 to a tower closer to me since signal is strong.

The one thing I do acknowledge is that T-Mobile load balances very evenly between their bands. So at least there's consistent performance, from my observation

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13 minutes ago, transitwatch889 said:

The one thing I do acknowledge is that T-Mobile load balances very evenly between their bands. So at least there's consistent performance, from my observation

It seems that way. I'm gonna keep T-Mobile bands enabled to see how well they optimize things, so far, they seem to be moving at a good pace. It seems that when B12 is PCC is when I run into some speed issues, so let's see how that works out.

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Service on T-Mobile for me has been great for me so far. Inside my home, I'm averaging 84/46 with peaks of 161/54 according to RootMetrics. This is in an area without 20x20 Band 71 or 10x10 n71 so there's potentially even more speed available if T-Mobile upgrades my local site.

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1 minute ago, Paynefanbro said:

Service on T-Mobile for me has been great for me so far. Inside my home, I'm averaging 84/46 with peaks of 161/54 according to RootMetrics. This is in an area without 20x20 Band 71 or 10x10 n71 so there's potentially even more speed available if T-Mobile upgrades my local site.

You live in a really nice and unburdened towered area.

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7 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Service on T-Mobile for me has been great for me so far. Inside my home, I'm averaging 84/46 with peaks of 161/54 according to RootMetrics. This is in an area without 20x20 Band 71 or 10x10 n71 so there's potentially even more speed available if T-Mobile upgrades my local site.

For me I have very unstable speeds. Sometimes 30mbs, sometimes .50mbs indoors. Outside, it's similar.

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17 minutes ago, transitwatch889 said:

You live in a really nice and unburdened towered area.

It's mostly because T-Mobile's nearest site to my home is about 500 feet away and they have a few more sites in my area than Sprint. The closest Sprint site to me (that isn't a small cell) is about 3 times as far away and is a converted Clearwire site that is Band 41 only.

I was still able to get faster speeds on Sprint inside my home as long as I was connected to Band 41. In fact, my last Sprint speed test before my phone switched to T-Mobile was a 190Mbps test on 5G inside my home. However, if my phone lost Band 41 for any reason, it dropped to Band 26 which was unfortunately super overloaded.

Not that that mattered much because I'm on WiFi 99% of the time in my house.

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Are Sprint users roaming onto T Mobile in NYC? Or what parts of the US can Sprint roam onto T Mobile?

I ser Sprint’s coverage in Montana is still gray, rather than showing Extended LTE Roaming.

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21 minutes ago, Wfmets45 said:

Are Sprint users roaming onto T Mobile in NYC? Or what parts of the US can Sprint roam onto T Mobile?

I ser Sprint’s coverage in Montana is still gray, rather than showing Extended LTE Roaming.

GS20 users are basically switched to TMobile as primary. Lte users are still on Sprint sites as far as I know.

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2 hours ago, Wfmets45 said:

Are Sprint users roaming onto T Mobile in NYC? Or what parts of the US can Sprint roam onto T Mobile?

I ser Sprint’s coverage in Montana is still gray, rather than showing Extended LTE Roaming.

Anywhere there is T-Mobile coverage, if you fall off of Spring, you can roam on T-Mobile. 

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