Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[Mobilesolutions]

 

 

10gb and throttle to 2.5 Mbps for LTE is fair

 

I think that its not a bad idea except here's what the consumer hears "you have 10 gigs and "we throttle at Sprint. Now you have people that other wise might use 3 GB monthly trying to consume 10 because they feel entitled to. Enforce tethering without tethering plan policies and use connection optimization software to push devices on WiFi where available.

[digiblur]

 

I think that its not a bad idea except here's what the consumer hears "you have 10 gigs and "we throttle at Sprint. Now you have people that other wise might use 3 GB monthly trying to consume 10 because they feel entitled to. Enforce tethering without tethering plan policies and use connection optimization software to push devices on WiFi where available.

 

Yep. I know my usage has gone up since my cable company has forced me to watch ours. I see how much we have left and use it more, mostly involuntary as it plants a message in your mind.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

 

[Deval]

Sprints maximum is like 30-35mbps down & 10-15up I want that to be regular consistently . I like to strea video & people say you only 5-10mbps well yeah you need 5-10mbps go stream the video but for it to be clear & not stop & constantly buffer ur gonna need something more than 10mbps , & tbh I expected better from Sprint with the whole upgrade speed wise . I understand the NYC market is VERY crowded but other carriers such as AT&T & Verizon (mainly ATT) manage to pull off high speeds ATT average 20mbps , their peak is something like 55-60 (thats overkill in my opinion) , T-Mobile is similar , Verizon is just overly packed so every once in a while they'll reach that otherwise their LTE is slower than Sprint's -_- .

 

*edit*

 

lilotimz beat me to it...thanks buddy!

[NaNa_Ch!LL]

Wow my pings around my home are landing around 1200+ this evening. Usually it's in the 60-110 and there's no Yankee game here?

 

Hmm, something's fishy.

[Deval]

Wow my pings around my home are landing around 1200+ this evening. Usually it's in the 60-110 and there's no Yankee game here?

 

Hmm, something's fishy.

 

Could be the test server, same issue with different servers?

[NaNa_Ch!LL]

 

 

Could be the test server, same issue with different servers?

 

Just tried the same server one more time and the next 3 closest ones. Consistently got 430+ pings so I don't thing it's the servers.

 

Edit: tried the servers again and I'm back in the 1100+ range.

Edited May 13, 2013 by NaNa_Ch!LL

[LTEBrooklyn]

 

 

Just tried the same server one more time and the next 3 closest ones. Consistently got 430+ pings so I don't thing it's the servers.

 

Edit: tried the servers again and I'm back in the 1100+ range.

 

Try a out of state server. Are your web pages slow as well?

[Paynefanbro]

The cell site by home is currently offline. Assuming the tower isn't on by the official announcement of the market, will they turn it back on when they announce it or will it stay off for whatever reason?

[digiblur]

The cell site by home is currently offline. Assuming the tower isn't on by the official announcement of the market, will they turn it back on when they announce it or will it stay off for whatever reason?

 

You will have to check with the contractors handling that site to know.

[S4GRU]

Just to clarify something posted farther up. When ping time starts to worsen, that is definitely a sign that the sector is starting to congest.

 

Ping time is the measure in milliseconds it takes to travel from your device to a point on the internet and back. When you're on Sprint LTE, even on an unburdened site, the part of the trip that adds the most to ping is the airlink section. The point from your device to the base station at the cell site. In an ideal situations, this will add 10-12 ms both ways. So even if you have a tower with a fiber connection that has a 3-5 ms ping, and the Sprint network is running top efficiency and adds 2-5 ms ping, the best theoretical Sprint LTE ping you can have is around 25-30ms ping. That's screaming fast over an airlink.

 

You need to understand the airlink. The airlink is a shared resource to everyone in the same LTE sector as you. So, when no one is on the sector, but you, it takes 10 ms for your data to get through the air, the panel and to the base station. That's unimaginably fast.

 

The airlink has only so much capacity, every second. So what happens when the airlink starts to fill up? It slows down. No, the airlink itself doesn't actually slow down, but now the network is receiving so much data over the airlink, that the airlink cannot support it all instantaneously and starts to queue the data from the devices. This slows down the ping. Because the second your device decides to send, the network may need another 10-50ms longer to process it. And it will need to do the same thing on the return trip if the reverse link is also saturated.

 

So if you have a higher ping than normal, but speeds are unaffected, it likely means your sector airlink is more saturated than normal, but the backhaul bandwidth is sufficient to support it.

 

If you have unaffected ping, but speeds have dropped, then the backhaul does not have the bandwidth to support the current load.

 

If you have both ping and backhaul performance reduction, it can be either or, or a combination of both.

 

If you have catastrophically bad performance, it can be either over saturated airlink, or can be severely undersized backhaul for the load (like what was happening with the old T1's). If the airlink gets overloaded to the point of catastrophic failure, then they need to add additional carriers to support the airlink traffic.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

[centermedic]

Tbh , I don't care just saying moving on now .

 

Just to back up my point , I found this on the Sprint Community Forum

 

eugenesprintfremont Oct 5, 2012 5:13 PM (in response to GoldenStateWarrior510)

I was at Intel (Mission College Blvd) at 2pm and saw "Extended LTE" on my iPhone.

Speedtest was: 6.27Mbps download, 3.38 upload

 

You guys keep saying you can't get Extended LTE on Sprint thats clearly not true . But onto the next subject .

 

Heres more to back up my point

 

eugenesprintfremont Oct 5, 2012 5:29 PM (in response to mak_tech)

Thanks. My setting was on "off" for data roaming at the time and I still got "Extended LTE".

 

So this guy wasn't even roaming on Verizons LTE network & he still got Extended .

You really should not believe anything you read on those forums.

[nexgencpu]

Just to clarify something posted farther up. When ping time starts to worsen, that is definitely a sign that the sector is starting to congest.

 

Ping time is the measure in milliseconds it takes to travel from your device to a point on the internet and back. When you're on Sprint LTE, even on an unburdened site, the part of the trip that adds the most to ping is the airlink section. The point from your device to the base station at the cell site. In an ideal situations, this will add 10-12 ms both ways. So even if you have a tower with a fiber connection that has a 3-5 ms ping, and the Sprint network is running top efficiency and adds 2-5 ms ping, the best theoretical Sprint LTE ping you can have is around 25-30ms ping. That's screaming fast over an airlink.

 

You need to understand the airlink. The airlink is a shared resource to everyone in the same LTE sector as you. So, when no one is on the sector, but you, it takes 10 ms for your data to get through the air, the panel and to the base station. That's unimaginably fast.

 

The airlink has only so much capacity, every second. So what happens when the airlink starts to fill up? It slows down. No, the airlink itself doesn't actually slow down, but now the network is receiving so much data over the airlink, that the airlink cannot support it all instantaneously and starts to queue the data from the devices. This slows down the ping. Because the second your device decides to send, the network may need another 10-50ms longer to process it. And it will need to do the same thing on the return trip if the reverse link is also saturated.

 

So if you have a higher ping than normal, but speeds are unaffected, it likely means your sector airlink is more saturated than normal, but the backhaul bandwidth is sufficient to support it.

 

If you have unaffected ping, but speeds have dropped, then the backhaul does not have the bandwidth to support the current load.

 

If you have both ping and backhaul performance reduction, it can be either or, or a combination of both.

 

If you have catastrophically bad performance, it can be either over saturated airlink, or can be severely undersized backhaul for the load (like what was happening with the old T1's). If the airlink gets overloaded to the point of catastrophic failure, then they need to add additional carriers to support the airlink traffic.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

Thanks for this Robert, we have been trying to decipher why sprints LTE pings were less susceptible to heavy user load, (like around yankee stadium during a game) than other carriers. This goes some ways to better understand that. Thanks again

[nexgencpu]

Also with that in mind, how does sprint plan to deal with a situation like Yankee Stadium, where its not just a stadium full of users, but also surrounded by a dense amount of residential users.

[S4GRU]

Also with that in mind, how does sprint plan to deal with a situation like Yankee Stadium, where its not just a stadium full of users, but also surrounded by a dense amount of residential users.

 

There really is not a way to handle it with the macro network. The macro network cannot feasibly be designed with enough carriers to handle point loads of thousands of users in a single sector. Now that it's been explained above how the airlink works, you can see why more than a couple hundred people cannot share a sector together. The queue for your data to get to the network just gets longer and longer as more and more people hop on, severely limiting performance.

 

Small cells, DAS systems, and WiFi help to relieve the burdens off the macro network with varying success. However, they are expensive and can be difficult to coordinate locating with property owners and feeding with sufficient backhaul at all locations.

 

It's probably not reasonable to be able to deliver data to the level of audio and video streaming to thousands of customers in a few acres. If people were content with texting, uploading statuses and still pictures and perhaps audio streaming, then those things are probably enough that could be accommodated with small cells and DAS. However, you get a dozen people streaming video of the game to their phone in your sector, and you can forget it. We just can't really handle that kind of stuff right now.

 

Verizon and AT&T handle those things by data caps. People on Verizon LTE won't run their devices like a TV during the game because it uses too much data. But a Sprint LTE customer will feel like it's their God given right to waste so much bandwidth because they paid for unlimited. And then be pissed while their device buffers the whole game. Because 850 other Sprint customers feel exactly the same way at the game.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

[nexgencpu]

There really is not a way to handle it with the macro network. The macro network cannot feasibly be designed with enough carriers to handle point loads of thousands of users in a single sector. Now that it's been explained above how the airlink works, you can see why more than a couple hundred people cannot share a sector together. The queue for your data to get to the network just gets longer and longer as more and more people hop on, severely limiting performance.

 

Small cells, DAS systems, and WiFi help to relieve the burdens off the macro network with varying success. However, they are expensive and can be difficult to coordinate locating with property owners and feeding with sufficient backhaul at all locations.

 

It's probably not reasonable to be able to deliver data to the level of audio and video streaming to thousands of customers in a few acres. If people were content with texting, uploading statuses and still pictures and perhaps audio streaming, then those things are probably enough that could be accommodated with small cells and DAS. However, you get a dozen people streaming video of the game to their phone in your sector, and you can forget it. We just can't really handle that kind of stuff right now.

 

Verizon and AT&T handle those things by data caps. People on Verizon LTE won't run their devices like a TV during the game because it uses too much data. But a Sprint LTE customer will feel like it's their God given right to waste so much bandwidth because they paid for unlimited. And then be pissed while their device buffers the whole game. Because 850 other Sprint customers feel exactly the same way at the game.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

Unlimited data is awesome and all in theory but, really is a double edged sword. I am less than 2 miles from Yankee Stadium, and with baseball being a long season, it can be a hard pill to swallow.

[IsaiahL]

You really should not believe anything you read on those forums.

 

Why not care to clarify ?

[LTEBrooklyn]

 

 

Why not care to clarify ?

 

Just drop it. Not worth the argument.

[S4GRU]

 

Why not care to clarify ?

 

I'll clarify. The Sprint community forums are filled with Sprint haters, whiners and a huge amount of ill-informed people. Even when a Sprint employee does post something from the horses mouth, it is often from a person who doesn't understand the big picture or misunderstands the intent of the info they've received. There are some quality Sprint folks from the community, however, most of them also hang over here.

 

Since you have to read through so much garbage to ever find a quality post, it's not worth the effort to read the Sprint community forums.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

[IsaiahL]

 

 

I'll clarify. The Sprint community forums are filled with Sprint haters, whiners and a huge amount of ill-informed people. Even when a Sprint employee does post something from the horses mouth, it is often from a person who doesn't understand the big picture or misunderstands the intent of the info they've received. There are some quality Sprint folks from the community, however, most of them also hang over here.

 

Since you have to read through so much garbage to ever find a quality post, it's not worth the effort to read the Sprint community forums.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

 

I think ur right because the Sprint Forum is actually where I found out that Sprint LTE was supposed to be fully launched by March ???? that was obviously incorrect lol , I like take ur advice thanks .

[TonyStylesNYC]

Also with that in mind, how does sprint plan to deal with a situation like Yankee Stadium, where its not just a stadium full of users, but also surrounded by a dense amount of residential users.

 

Also bro i just did a quick check for you and i noticed that there are 4 towers that surround Yankee stadium and one that looks like it is in the stadium that has not been upgraded yet. looks like the only upgrades are on 162nd street and summit and one on 167th and sherman. Those two sites are way over loaded on game day and are pretty far away thats why its been super slow. Trust it will get way better once the 4 sites directly around the stadium are upgraded. Those aren't even 3g accepted yet.

 

Since your a sponsor check the NV site complete map and compare it to the NV site map new york markets which shows all towers that are listed for upgrades. You notice the sector around Yankee stadium hasn't been upgraded yet.

[nexgencpu]

Also bro i just did a quick check for you and i noticed that there are 4 towers that surround Yankee stadium and one that looks like it is in the stadium that has not been upgraded yet. looks like the only upgrades are on 162nd street and summit and one on 167th and sherman. Those two sites are way over loaded on game day thats why its been super slow. Trust it will get way better once the 4 sites directly around the stadium are upgraded. Those aren't even 3g accepted yet.

 

Since your a sponsor check the NV site complete map and compare it to the NV site map new york markets which shows all towers that are listed for upgrades. You notice the sector around Yankee stadium hasn't been upgraded yet.

Your right, I didn't think to check that area for the unaccepted sites, that definitely should help alleviate a lot of the slow down..

[TonyStylesNYC]

Your right, I didn't think to check that area for the unaccepted sites, that definitely should help alleviate a lot of the slow down..

 

Yeah man i know the feeling when i'm up there its super slow on game day. Even my home area has accepted sites around me but my sector is still unaccepted which leaves me with wacky 4g from signals im picking up from far away. The market is coming along but still has quite a long way to go. Sensorly should be all dark purple once every site is complete.

[NaNa_Ch!LL]

 

 

Also bro i just did a quick check for you and i noticed that there are 4 towers that surround Yankee stadium and one that looks like it is in the stadium that has not been upgraded yet. looks like the only upgrades are on 162nd street and summit and one on 167th and sherman. Those two sites are way over loaded on game day and are pretty far away thats why its been super slow. Trust it will get way better once the 4 sites directly around the stadium are upgraded. Those aren't even 3g accepted yet.

 

Since your a sponsor check the NV site complete map and compare it to the NV site map new york markets which shows all towers that are listed for upgrades. You notice the sector around Yankee stadium hasn't been upgraded yet.

 

My pain, my suffering lol.

 

How could these sites be overlooked? Not saying this because I live in the area but because everyone knews baseball season was coming. I hope citi field is covered.

 

Hey at least my texts go through.

[Mobilesolutions]

Also with that in mind, how does sprint plan to deal with a situation like Yankee Stadium, where its not just a stadium full of users, but also surrounded by a dense amount of residential users.

 

Part of the solution for this is using multiple frequencies.

[nexgencpu]

My pain, my suffering lol.

 

How could these sites be overlooked? Not saying this because I live in the area but because everyone knews baseball season was coming. I hope citi field is covered.

 

Hey at least my texts go through.

There seems to be multiple ways of mitigating this, with more sites and using multiple frequencies, But it looks like unless the Yankees make it to the Post Season we wont see the benefits till next season.