Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[wispiANt]

17 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Your third photo isn't appearing on my end but are you referring to how the shroud on that site is vented? Separately what is the new antenna that they put there? It looks like it has a lot more ports than the previous two antennas. Are they running Band 2/5/13/66 off of a single antenna?

Updated the third image! Yes, it looks like they've switched from two 8-port antennas to a single 16-port antenna for 2/5/13/66 (eNB 84767 on CellMapper). And yes, new shroud design! The new shroud is vented and significantly thicker (maybe 1.5x as thick?) than the older design.

[Paynefanbro]

On 8/10/2021 at 12:57 PM, mirskyc said:

Lucky, I pay $74.99 for 200/10 from Spectrum in Astoria Queens. My street doesn’t have Fios and I think RCN is only available across the street.  Spectrum wants 94.99 a month for 400/20. 1Gbps x 35  is 134.99 but I’m not even sure it’s available in my area.

I‘ve been hoping 5G home internet will be available at my address soon. My 5G is always faster then my wifi no matter the time of day. 

Yup I got really lucky! Optimum was running a promotion for gigabit service at $65/month for life for new customers. I already had Optimum internet but it was under another name in my household so to take advantage of the promo I just cancelled the service under the other person and signed up again using my name so I was technically a new customer. These days the gigabit promos are typically only discounted for a year before they balloon in price. I got my own modem too so I'm not paying any rental fees either.

I also checked last month and saw that my house is officially available for T-Mobile Home Internet but my deal with Optimum is just too good to give up. It's good that there's at least some sort of viable alternative to Optimum here though considering FiOS doesn't serve my home and Starry seems focused on wiring their service for buildings, not homes right now. My home site has pings in the teens and speeds of 500Mbps+ at all times of the day so anyone using T-Mobile Home Internet here is extremely lucky.

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:12 PM, thisischuck01 said:

Have started to see some oDAS nodes (equipped with B2/B66/B46) act as anchor eNBs.

Speeds were in the 300Mb/s range, ping typical for n41 NSA.

I thought most oDAS's anchored NR by now, didn't know it was still a site by site basis. I found one anchoring NR since Dec 2020:

[wispiANt]

2 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I thought most oDAS's anchored NR by now, didn't know it was still a site by site basis. I found one anchoring NR since Dec 2020:

Oh, interesting! I haven't had much luck with 'em. eNB 137445 (literally one higher digit higher than the one in my post, and right around the corner) is dirt slow and I'm always dropped to LTE-only when I'm connected to those nodes. And no dice with the ones on my commute (eNB 59923 and 59919). 

Though I did catch them doing some work on the node tonight, so hopefully things will improve:

[wispiANt]

More Verizon content (sorry). BTS upgrade across from the Brooklyn Museum, eNB 84059.

[Paynefanbro]

JFK speeds are impressive while connected to the DAS and while connected to the macro in the airport.

These were my 5G speeds just before the security gate at Terminal 4:

 

These are LTE and 5G speeds inside Terminal 2: 

[T-MoblieUser207]

Staten Island
Took a trip to the forgotten borough of NYC, Staten Island, to see how the n41 build was going on over there, and to be honest, its a mixed bag.

Immediately off the Verrazzano, I found n41 40 MHz, being broadcasted from a different frequency. The unique thing I have found is T-Mobile does 2680 for their LTE block on the island, not the 2538.2 MHz block like the rest of the city, because the NR block is using that area. South of the Expressway there is plenty of apparent holes in n41 coverage, as I dropped to n71 often, but north of the Expressway was different, as I was on n41 more often, but still dropped down to n71 occasionally. Seems like most towers have n71 and wide enough to be on n71 often, but n41 is still very patchy.

I went with the guess that 2645.8 and 2599 MHz blocks from Sprint were 20 MHz each, but they are not, they are 10 MHz and 15 MHz respectively. This places the 2645.8 block right inside T-Mobile's n41 40 MHz block in Brooklyn and The Bronx. Could also be only for Staten Island 2645.8 and 2599 are setup like this, not sure. T-Mobile is also overlapping the NR block with the 10 MHz LTE currently being used for Sprint small cells on Staten Island.

Organized layout of all the active blocks I have found for Staten Island: (center frequency, bandwidth [frequency boundary] = deployment)
* = same deployment citywide

2523.8, 10 MHz [2518.8 to 2528.8] = Sprint LTE small cells  *
2599, 15 MHz [2591.5 to 2606.5] = current Sprint LTE macros
2645.8, 10 MHz [2640.8 to 2650.8] = Sprint LTE macros
2680, 20 MHz [2670 to 2690] = T-Mobile LTE macros
2539.35, 40 MHz [2519.35 to 2559.35] = T-Mo NR macros

Finding and locating some of the towers on Cellmapper has been fun on the island, as B41 doesn't use the same PCI that B66 uses, like the rest of the city does, and B12 and B71 also don't share the same PCI either on Staten Island, so matching splits have been a guessing game if B12 isn't mapped on both the original and new eNB.

Recent Brooklyn observations

Verizon is moving very fast with their installations of C-band. eNBs 81426 and 81322 both have the Samsung panel Paynefanbro has shared.

T-Mo has upgraded 1 of 3 sites they use to cover Starrett City with n41, eNB 43391. The site at Gateway Mall, eNB 127993, also got the 6449 treatment, so speeds on 5G have gone up there. The strange thing is, the Gateway Mall site has 2538.2 and 2558 MHz blocks, both being 20 MHz being broadcasted, along with 80 MHz n41. The n41 block and the 2558 MHz block are overlapping by ~8 MHz. I haven't found this setup anywhere else in Brooklyn yet, but it isn't the first site I have seen like this, there is a Bronx site that does the same thing, eNB 130682. I wonder if the LTE NR overlap will only remain in high traffic areas, or if it will spread across the city, as it is a ton of LTE capacity.

Found 2 more n41 SA sites, eNB 134936 and 140520. The speeds leveled out at 390 down/55 up at -93 RSRP on 140520. Also don't know how long they will last with SA active, since the last 2 I knew of now have n41 SA turned off.

[AirlineFlyer]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:19 PM, thisischuck01 said:

I figure I might as well post this here as it is NYC-specific and the Verizon thread is a bit dead. Haven't yet spotted any Verizon C-Band upgrades in the Williamsburg area (even on their FDC), but I did spot this site upgrade today:

Before:

After:

Compared to their typical mmWave antenna shrouds:

 

I noticed Verizon doing some work on eNB 84723 (downtown Brooklyn, DeKalb & St Felix St) last week and one of the mmWave antennas has the new ventilated shroud as well.

[AirlineFlyer]

On 8/19/2021 at 12:02 PM, AirlineFlyer said:

I noticed Verizon doing some work on eNB 84723 (downtown Brooklyn, DeKalb & St Felix St) last week and one of the mmWave antennas has the new ventilated shroud as well.

Here's a look at the site. It shows a new ventilated mmWave shroud but at the same time it's not actually plugged in. I've noticed that at several vzw sites in Brooklyn where one of the antennas isn't actually plugged in. Another sector in this site did have the mmWave antenna plugged in.

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:30 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Found 2 more n41 SA sites

Cellmapper updated, and its actually 7 sites. Something is brewing...

Edited August 24, 2021 by T-MoblieUser207

[wispiANt]

Last night at Evil Twin Brewing (near the Halsey St L stop). Eek.

[Paynefanbro]

11 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Last night at Evil Twin Brewing (near the Halsey St L stop). Eek.

Signal looks pretty low. But 20MHz of Band 66 with 4x4MIMO + 80MHz of n41 should be providing much better speeds than that.

Even though the jitter is high, the ping is pretty low. I'd have to guess that it's a site provisioning problem. I wish there were some way to flag this to T-Mobile.

 

[AirlineFlyer]

Verizon added mmWave to an additional sector of eNB 84364 in Fort Greene. They again used this new shroud with the ventilation on the side. Still another sector without mmWave installed for some reason.

[Paynefanbro]

NYC DoITT and Public Design Commission approved a new design for multi-tenant small cells last month. They look very similar to the previously approved single-tenant design but they're quite a bit taller. Basically the new design means that going forward, a single light pole or utility can have multiple carriers and technologies on it, reducing the number of new poles that needs to be "converted" to densify 4G/5G coverage. It should definitely speed up mmWave deployment once the city starts allowing carriers to build out 5G small cells here.

[AirlineFlyer]

On 9/4/2021 at 9:55 PM, Paynefanbro said:

NYC DoITT and Public Design Commission approved a new design for multi-tenant small cells last month. They look very similar to the previously approved single-tenant design but they're quite a bit taller. Basically the new design means that going forward, a single light pole or utility can have multiple carriers and technologies on it, reducing the number of new poles that needs to be "converted" to densify 4G/5G coverage. It should definitely speed up mmWave deployment once the city starts allowing carriers to build out 5G small cells here.

Well, that's interesting! All the equipment for two separate carriers is still fitting in that little equipment shroud that doesn't appear to be any larger? Really gotta wonder why this didn't happen 5-10 years ago. Can you link to the info where you got this from? Thanks!

Edited September 9, 2021 by AirlineFlyer

[AirlineFlyer]

58 minutes ago, AirlineFlyer said:

Well, that's interesting! All the equipment for two separate carriers is still fitting in that little equipment shroud that doesn't appear to be any larger? Really gotta wonder why this didn't happen 5-10 years ago. Can you link to the info where you got this from? Thanks!

Got it https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doitt/business/5g-design/5g.page

[Paynefanbro]

New iPhones have n258. Now all we're missing is n262. Soon enough it'll make economic sense for T-Mobile to do mmWave deployments since all of their spectrum will be supported by phones.

[AirlineFlyer]

16 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

New iPhones have n258. Now all we're missing is n262. Soon enough it'll make economic sense for T-Mobile to do mmWave deployments since all of their spectrum will be supported by phones.

I wonder if the inclusion of n258 will get T-Mobile moving at all. I haven't seen any progress on mmWave in years. In fact, I've just seen it *removed* from sites.

[Paynefanbro]

eNB 43383 in Gowanus is another one of those sites with more backhaul than normal. It's the first one I found that doesn't have LAA or mmWave. It's also a weird site to have so much backhaul since it's not in a particularly busy area with the exception that it covers a Whole Foods. I got this while in my car without LOS so I'm sure I could get faster if I got closer. This is the same site where I was getting nearly 500Mbps on LTE while indoors a couple of months ago.

[T-MoblieUser207]

The decommissioning of Sprint sites has started, the optimistic worrying starts about which sites they will keep and convert. Only 2 out of the 3 B41 sectors are on Cellmapper, and 0 B25/26 sectors. I think another site near me also got turned off/decom'd, but I haven't checked it yet. I guess its time to start paying more attention to Sprint sites...

Link to street view of the site via Google Maps ,  Link to the site in Cellmapper .

Nov 2020 view:

Pic of the empty top and poles on the side of the building removed, taken 2 days ago:

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:56 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I think another site near me also got turned off/decom'd, but I haven't checked it yet.

Still haven't checked it to take a photo, but its eNB 6798/9383, and its definitely gone, as I connect to Sprint towers farther away instead of it. Only explanation for why B26 has gone from -96 - 110 to -115 - 120 nearby, and as soon as I step indoors, my inactive Sprint SIM immediately jumps to T-Mobile.

[Paynefanbro]

1. Found an interesting T-Mobile setup in Brooklyn. One of the few in the city where they're using the two antenna setup for all of their bands. This is eNB 56208. It doesn't look like the Commscope antennas that they've deployed in other markets though.
   
   
   
    
2. Also found another Verizon C-band site, eNB 81322. The antennas are not hooked up though, just like the site I spotted in Crown Heights. The T-Mobile site on the same building (eNB 55916) has Band 12/41/71 but none of those bands have been mapped on Cellmapper yet. The Sprint site on the same building has the Nokia Band/n41 antenna but it also appears to have what I think is a Samsung WiMax/LTE antenna from the Clearwire days on it with a bunch of radomes attached for microwave backhaul. It's interesting that Sprint never took down the equipment on so many of their collocated sites, instead just choosing to turn off power. 
   
   
    
3. Has anyone else noticed how T-Mobile eNB 41348 has a set of older RFS antennas still wired for one of it's sectors? There are three of them but only two appear to be connected. I see that eNB 41348 only shows three Band 66 sectors whereas eNB 126314 (a split from 41348) shows four Band 66 sectors. Anyone have any idea why they'd keep those antennas on only one sector?
   
   

[T-MoblieUser207]

13 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

1. Found an interesting T-Mobile setup in Brooklyn. One of the few in the city where they're using the two antenna setup for all of their bands. This is eNB 56208. It doesn't look like the Commscope antennas that they've deployed in other markets though.

I found this tower interesting too, but I think its an RFS panel next to that 6449. It's usually RFS+6488/6449 for Ericsson markets, Commscope+AAHF/AEHC for Nokia markets. Here is a similar setup, this time in Manhattan, eNB 45627. Looks like the same panel to me.

 

13 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

The T-Mobile site on the same building (eNB 55916) has Band 12/41/71 but none of those bands have been mapped on Cellmapper yet.

I am to blame for B41 not showing up on this tower. The eNB for B41 is located, but hidden, since no cells are shown. I passed this tower recently, and the J5 Pro I use for mapping B12/41 had a GPS glitch, and registered trails too far west, but parallel to Kings Hwy. With the trails and sector spread being too far west, I deleted the cells, with the intention of remapping B41 on this tower within the next month, as I will be in the neighborhood then. I'll make sure to add B12/71 too, which I haven't mapped for this tower at all. I think this tower was one of those midband only sites that finally got the full spectrum deployment.

14 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Has anyone else noticed how T-Mobile eNB 41348 has a set of older RFS antennas still wired for one of it's sectors? There are three of them but only two appear to be connected. I see that eNB 41348 only shows three Band 66 sectors whereas eNB 126314 (a split from 41348) shows four Band 66 sectors. Anyone have any idea why they'd keep those antennas on only one sector?

I could be wrong, but I don't think those antennas are still active. From the May 2021 view of Google Maps, all the new panels for that sector are at the edge of the building, with the other 2 sectors also getting updated, but they haven't changed positions. Wouldn't make sense to keep the old panels though, as they no longer have a purpose.

[Paynefanbro]

Another Verizon C-band site, this time there appears it appears to be connected. eNB 84416

 

[wispiANt]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:21 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I found this tower interesting too, but I think its an RFS panel next to that 6449. It's usually RFS+6488/6449 for Ericsson markets, Commscope+AAHF/AEHC for Nokia markets. Here is a similar setup, this time in Manhattan, eNB 45627. Looks like the same panel to me.

Agreed! Looks like it could be an APXVAALL15_43-U-NA20.

On 9/27/2021 at 2:21 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think those antennas are still active. From the May 2021 view of Google Maps, all the new panels for that sector are at the edge of the building, with the other 2 sectors also getting updated, but they haven't changed positions. Wouldn't make sense to keep the old panels though, as they no longer have a purpose.

Once again, agreed! Here's a similar setup in Williamsburg (eNB 58152). Kinda hard to tell what's going on - maybe these were four-sector sites that were downgraded to three-sector sites once they were upgraded with split-sector antennas? Or perhaps they changed sector azimuth at some point and were too lazy to take down the old sector?