Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[Fraydog]

Part of the major problem that I saw with Network Vision wasn't even the execution as much as Sprint using 5x5 LTE when Sprint had much wider channels open with 2.5 GHz spectrum. I only wish that Sprint had a solution that would have integrated all the major frequencies in the original plan. Instead Sprint had to pay for the technical incompetence of past choices. I know some in the past defended those choices, but the good news is Sprint has a much more standardized network than they did before. LTE and TD-LTE are global standards. Some can say "why does Sprint always say SOON" and some can say Sprint was constrained by the choices of the past. They're both right!

 

Sprint needs all three spectrum bands firing LTE to offer their optimal experience. They will have 55,000 cells firing that off when NV 2 is done, pending future densification. Once they are that point Sprint will have WiMAX done, Nextel done, and CDMA probably done as far as buildout and close to done except as an old legacy call method, albeit one that works far better this time because at least Azzi had the good sense to deploy 800 MHz CDMA where no one at Sprint had that good sense before.

 

The good news is that this crap is almost over. When SoftBank engineers came into KC this winter, the stages of SoftBank sweeping the old Sprint, the old incompetent Sprint, the old Gary Forsee Sprint and to a lesser extent the Hesse Sprint out the door began in earnest. I will give Hesse credit for getting the SoftBank deal done, though I think deep down he knew he would seal his fate this way.

 

It is time for a standardized Sprint. A standardized Sprint is a competitive Sprint firing on all cylinders. That's in all of our best interests. It's also a spectrum package that no one in the US can compete with. That's what people don't get. The execution path has never been clearer here. Finally the standards wars are over.

 

Ultimately this is why I am OK with a rebrand as it happens. This is a different company right now.

[lennyj17]

The only issue I have now with Sprint in NYC is the indoor transit hubs.... i.e Penn Station, Lower Level of Port Authority, Grand Central, WTC....other than that the Network is Awesome for me. 

 

Sprint really needs to tackle this issue NEXT! I hope this is apart of the Small Cell deployment schedule. 

[lilotimz]

The only issue I have now with Sprint in NYC is the indoor transit hubs.... i.e Penn Station, Lower Level of Port Authority, Grand Central, WTC....other than that the Network is Awesome for me.

 

Sprint really needs to tackle this issue NEXT! I hope this is apart of the Small Cell deployment schedule.

Those have to be negotiated with the transit organization who manages the location for Das or pico cell deployment. Then sprint has to work with them to install a Das or plug into one they install or deploy indoor pico cells themselves.

 

Ofcourse sprints pico cells are not yet ready for prime time.

[Paynefanbro]

The only issue I have now with Sprint in NYC is the indoor transit hubs.... i.e Penn Station, Lower Level of Port Authority, Grand Central, WTC....other than that the Network is Awesome for me. 

 

Sprint really needs to tackle this issue NEXT! I hope this is apart of the Small Cell deployment schedule. 

 

Grand Central hasn't been a problem for me.

[lennyj17]

Grand Central hasn't been a problem for me.

 

I was just using it as a example of what I meant by "Indoor Transit Hubs" ... I go through Penn and PABT daily those are the main 2 that needs work from My Experience. At Penn you do have Amtrak and "Cable" Wifi to soften the blow, but neither are ubiquitous throughout Penn, and B26 only gets inside on the upper level over by the Big Board. When there's a delay B26 gets crushed as Penn looks more like a concentration camp as opposed to a train station. 

[S4GRU]

Part of the major problem that I saw with Network Vision wasn't even the execution as much as Sprint using 5x5 LTE when Sprint had much wider channels open with 2.5 GHz spectrum. I only wish that Sprint had a solution that would have integrated all the major frequencies in the original plan. Instead Sprint had to pay for the technical incompetence of past choices. I know some in the past defended those choices, but the good news is Sprint has a much more standardized network than they did before. LTE and TD-LTE are global standards. Some can say "why does Sprint always say SOON" and some can say Sprint was constrained by the choices of the past. They're both right!

Your post seems to neglect the limitations imposed by depending on Clearwire for Band 41. Wishing is fine. I suppose if I was the wishing type, I'd wish that it could have been possible.

 

But given Clearwire's timing for B41 LTE, and the limited availability of TDD LTE expertise and equipment in late 2011, I don't think it's an issue of Sprint's technical incompetence of past choices that prevented B41 from being deployed with NV1.0.

 

In fact, Band 41 deployment is going better than any other part of Network Vision all things considered. The only significant problems were equipment related, and that is mostly sorted out now.

[latoso]

And now with Band 26, you virtually have LTE everywhere in NYC. And they still have more sites to convert. It just keeps getting better and better.

 

I remember when people said, 'all I want is LTE everywhere' or, 'I just want Sprint to give me at least 2Mbps'. Now Sprint exceeds that and even has thousands of places with 20-70Mbps around NYC and the same people are complaining.

 

I feel like it doesn't matter what Sprint does, some just are unhappy with whatever Sprint does.

The problem is we don't get how set ups worked, I have two examples, first at my job only band 41 and 26 are available, but when I disconnect from band 41 switches to 3g only connects to band 26 if my dbm goes - 114 than I get one bar of band 26. The same situation on Skyview center in Flushing there every band is available and you won't connect to LTE unless you go to the basement, than it switches to one bar of band 26, 3g still pretty slow I prefer one bar of any LTE band than 3 or 4 bars of 3g

[Fraydog]

Your post seems to neglect the limitations imposed by depending on Clearwire for Band 41. Wishing is fine. I suppose if I was the wishing type, I'd wish that it could have been possible.

 

But given Clearwire's timing for B41 LTE, and the limited availability of TDD LTE expertise and equipment in late 2011, I don't think it's an issue of Sprint's technical incompetence of past choices that prevented B41 from being deployed with NV1.0.

 

I implied the implications. To clarify, I wish there would have been a way to bring Clear in the same network fold much earlier. Fortunately after SoftBank it became a moot point. A lot of the NV issues I don't even chalk up to execution when, spectrum wise Sprint is exactly with their national speed averages where one would expect a 5x5 network to be at, which is 8.3 Mbps.

 

Sprint played the hand they were dealt when Forsee set forward the strategy that would become Clearwire. Hesse didn't really have a good way to unwind that. The way didn't exist until SoftBank.

[S4GRU]

The problem is we don't get how set ups worked, I have two examples, first at my job only band 41 and 26 are available, but when I disconnect from band 41 switches to 3g only connects to band 26 if my dbm goes - 114 than I get one bar of band 26. The same situation on Skyview center in Flushing there every band is available and you won't connect to LTE unless you go to the basement, than it switches to one bar of band 26, 3g still pretty slow I prefer one bar of any LTE band than 3 or 4 bars of 3g

Sounds like improper set up of neighboring cells. If B41 includes proper set up to include all the B26 sites nearby, it could pass off quicker to another LTE band without having to stop off at 3G while scanning. And given that some devices have a propensity to hang out on 3G and not rescan LTE for awhile, the device can cause further frustration to the issue.

 

As Sprint better programs neighboring cells in the optimization process, this will improve more. Additionally, newer LTE devices handle this issue better. For instance, in the iPhone 6, if it doesn't have a neighboring cell to pass to immediately when it is losing a signal on the existing band, it falls back to 3G but still actively scans for other LTE immediately. Starting with frequencies it has used in the area before. This can make your stay on 3G so short that you don't even notice. Maybe a second or two.

 

On a device just from a year ago, even though you may have been out of LTE range for a second, your device will hang on 3G for several minutes or until you cycle airplane mode. And if you had an app using data, it may never want to go back.

 

And this issue exists on all networks. I use AT&T with a Nexus 5. I have the same issue with unprogrammed neighboring cells causing me to drop to 3G. And not being able to get back to LTE immediately when I really never left coverage but just needed the device to change bands. But AT&T slowly adds more neighboring cell data to their network in time. As does Sprint.

[Fraydog]

Verizon is also having a lot of the same network optimization issues as they figure out how to put customers on B4 or B13, at least in my area of the country. I also read lots of people not having as good in building penetration with VZW LTE as they used to have from different areas of the country.

[IsaiahL]

That makes zero sense, since the 3G network is riding the same backhaul as the 4G network.

 

This isn't Verizon where it's discreet install, Sprint has the same site upgraded with all technology.

Okay so then can you please explain to me why my 3G speeds are still of the legacy quality hmm? Cause you're right it makes zero sense for me to have almost every 4G band with legacy 3G because why would Sprint do that, idk it's mind boggling.

 

 

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[Dkoellerwx]

Okay so then can you please explain to me why my 3G speeds are still of the legacy quality hmm? Cause you're right it makes zero sense for me to have almost every 4G band with legacy 3G because why would Sprint do that, idk it's mind boggling.

 

 

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Perhaps because there are still a lot of people using 3G hmm? Upgraded backhaul doesn't magically fix everything. You still need to get everyone on Tri-band devices. That way there are fewer devices parking on 3G when you go inside rather than Band 26.

[IsaiahL]

And now with Band 26, you virtually have LTE everywhere in NYC. And they still have more sites to convert. It just keeps getting better and better.

 

I remember when people said, 'all I want is LTE everywhere' or, 'I just want Sprint to give me at least 2Mbps'. Now Sprint exceeds that and even has thousands of places with 20-70Mbps around NYC and the same people are complaining.

 

I feel like it doesn't matter what Sprint does, some just are unhappy with whatever Sprint does.

I'm speaking of my own experiences with Sprint. I recognize that in the city almost EVERYWHERE, there's LTE, and I respect that, that's growth. But where I am there's nothing. Literally 1 tower converted. I believe it's B25 & B41 and those signals just barely reach my house. When I say Sprint is moving slow I mean for my general area. Over the 2-3 years I've only seen 1, 1 single tower in my area upgraded. So yeah I am a little disappointed but I also recognize that sprint is the best. No one has unlimited without a throttle anymore. So yeah

 

Perhaps because there are still a lot of people using 3G hmm? Upgraded backhaul doesn't magically fix everything. You still need to get everyone on Tri-band devices. That way there are fewer devices parking on 3G when you go inside rather than Band 26.

Tbh I think that may be the issue. There is no B26 on my local tower. Even though mostly everyone I know owns an iPhone 5s and up if the bands aren't there then they can be utilized. Mostly every tower around me is 3G. If it had any type of LTE I'd know because I'd connect but nah lol.

 

 

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Edited February 4, 2015 by IsaiahL

[Dkoellerwx]

I'm speaking of my own experiences with Sprint. I recognize that in the city almost EVERYWHERE, there's LTE, and I respect that, that's growth. But where I am there's nothing. Literally 1 tower converted. I believe it's B25 & B41 and those signals just barely reach my house. When I say Sprint is moving slow I mean for my general area. Over the 2-3 years I've only seen 1, 1 single tower in my area upgraded. So yeah I am a little disappointed but I also recognize that sprint is the best. No one has unlimited without a throttle anymore. So yeah

 

 

Tbh I think that may be the issue. There is no B26 on my local tower. Even though mostly everyone I know owns an iPhone 5s and up if the bands aren't there then they can be utilized. Mostly every tower around me is 3G. If it had any type of LTE I'd know because I'd connect but nah lol.

 

 

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1 tower? I can assure you that is not the case, if you are still in the same place that I remember.

[IsaiahL]

1 tower? I can assure you that is not the case, if you are still in the same place that I remember.

Lol no lie when i tell you. 1 tower. There are at least 3 towers around me. This my good friend is the only one in my proximity transmitting any type of 4G service. Everything else is Sprints throwback Thursday services.

 

 

 

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[Dkoellerwx]

Lol no lie when i tell you. 1 tower. There are at least 3 towers around me. This my good friend is the only one in my proximity transmitting any type of 4G service. Everything else is Sprints throwback Thursday services.

 

 

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Well. Fair enough, the site closest to you hasn't been upgraded. But all the others have, so saying only 1 site has been upgraded is a little bit of an exaggeration. You just happen to be in a bad spot. And that sucks.

[IsaiahL]

Well. Fair enough, the site closest to you hasn't been upgraded. But all the others have, so saying only 1 site has been upgraded is a little bit of an exaggeration. You just happen to be in a bad spot. And that sucks.

Tbh I just feel like Long Island got played in the long run. I've been living here for 4 years. Got my 5 in my 3rd year of living here and i've seen Queen's, BK and every other borough of New York State get upgraded and still L.I or at least most areas that I'm in and I travel frequently has no LTE. Not even upgrade 3G either. I'm just waiting for the day that I can celebrate and woooo my area has LTE and be able to walk aside and know I can load a simple YouTube video or hell even IG.

 

 

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[Dkoellerwx]

Tbh I just feel like Long Island got played in the long run. I've been living here for 4 years. Got my 5 in my 3rd year of living here and i've seen Queen's, BK and every other borough of New York State get upgraded and still L.I or at least most areas that I'm in and I travel frequently has no LTE. Not even upgrade 3G either. I'm just waiting for the day that I can celebrate and woooo my area has LTE and be able to walk aside and know I can load a simple YouTube video or hell even IG.

 

 

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Long Island is a separate market from New York City. Different timelines, different management. Long Island started getting upgrades more than a year after New York City did. So in a sense, yes Long Island got shafted a bit. But they are catching up.

 

Everything east of the road I have circled is the Long Island market, so was managed differently than the NYC market.

[Paynefanbro]

Tbh I just feel like Long Island got played in the long run. I've been living here for 4 years. Got my 5 in my 3rd year of living here and i've seen Queen's, BK and every other borough of New York State get upgraded and still L.I or at least most areas that I'm in and I travel frequently has no LTE. Not even upgrade 3G either. I'm just waiting for the day that I can celebrate and woooo my area has LTE and be able to walk aside and know I can load a simple YouTube video or hell even IG.

 

 

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Only certain areas of Long Island though. If you take a look at certain areas, the Hamptons, Bay Shore, Islip, Deer Park, etc, you'll see that those areas are pretty much covered entirely in LTE as well. Then there are certain areas like Riverhead, Hicksville, Bellport, etc. that seem to be struggling. Elmont falls somewhere in the middle between those two. extremes.

[Fraydog]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/verizon-nears-10-billion-asset-sale-to-frontier-1423087271

 

More VZ asset sales: this time to Frontier again.

[IsaiahL]

Only certain areas of Long Island though. If you take a look at certain areas, the Hamptons, Bay Shore, Islip, Deer Park, etc, you'll see that those areas are pretty much covered entirely in LTE as well. Then there are certain areas like Riverhead, Hicksville, Bellport, etc. that seem to be struggling. Elmont falls somewhere in the middle between those two. extremes.

Yeah I noticed that. Suffolk county has more LTE than Nassau County. They're probably split into divisions as well. Eh well there nothing I can do. It's a waiting game. Hopefully by the end of this year or by summer at least. LTE will be a regular for towns like mine.

 

Long Island is a separate market from New York City. Different timelines, different management. Long Island started getting upgrades more than a year after New York City did. So in a sense, yes Long Island got shafted a bit. But they are catching up.

 

Everything east of the road I have circled is the Long Island market, so was managed differently than the NYC market.

Ah I understand. Thanks for clarifying.

 

 

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[jaybiz81]

Actually I'm noticing the opposite, today my B25 hit its highest I've seen in about a year 9mbs in my apt.

 

I think network tuning with the other two bands are in full effect, so you might notice weirdness here and there for days or even weeks.

 

Yeah I have to agree about B25 being pretty darned great as of late, hitting what Sprint advertises of 6 to 12mbps.  I'm just hoping it was tuning.  Home is hard to compare to others here in East Harlem.  I live on the 4th floor and the nearest site is on the roof of a 4 floor building 150 feet away and I can stare right at it.

[nexgencpu]

Hit some more Sprint B41....

 

35th street 3rd ave..

 

138th street 5th ave

 

148th street Saint Nicholas ave

[Wfmets45]

Reading all of this makes me anxious to switch back to Sprint but as I said once before, I will probably make the switch when the new iPhone comes out later in the year and by then, I'm sure NV would have gotten better.

 

One thing I will miss however will be the ability to talk and surf simultaneously as I can with At&t.

 

Anyone know when Sprint will offer VoLTE or something that will allow me to talk and surf?

[nexgencpu]

Reading all of this makes me anxious to switch back to Sprint but as I said once before, I will probably make the switch when the new iPhone comes out later in the year and by then, I'm sure NV would have gotten better.

 

One thing I will miss however will be the ability to talk and surf simultaneously as I can with At&t.

 

Anyone know when Sprint will offer VoLTE or something that will allow me to talk and surf?

I use Gvoice full integration/Hangouts dialer, it works awesome! No need for VoLTE, its already here..