Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[Fraydog]

Extended LTE ? I've seen this on my phone before .

 

Phone hitting Sprint LTE and MetroPCS CDMA? Anyone know the answer here?

[lilotimz]

Sprints maximum is like 30-35mbps down & 10-15up I want that to be regular consistently . I like to strea video & people say you only 5-10mbps well yeah you need 5-10mbps go stream the video but for it to be clear & not stop & constantly buffer ur gonna need something more than 10mbps , & tbh I expected better from Sprint with the whole upgrade speed wise . I understand the NYC market is VERY crowded but other carriers such as AT&T & Verizon (mainly ATT) manage to pull off high speeds ATT average 20mbps , their peak is something like 55-60 (thats overkill in my opinion) , T-Mobile is similar , Verizon is just overly packed so every once in a while they'll reach that otherwise their LTE is slower than Sprint's -_- .

 

First off. You need to read up a bit more before you start complaining about speeds.Sprints 5x5 has a maximum theoretical output of 37.5mbps DL and ~ 14 mbps UL. The theoretical maximum is the absolute maximum that is physically allowed in our known universe with regards to scientific laws in an absolute perfect setting. Sure, getting 30-35 mbps is nice but that requires a near perfect line of sight to the cell site in addition to zero entity other than you utilizing that specific sector. An entirely non realistic feat that no carrier can ever provide and is the main reason all the major carriers advertise speeds in the ballpark of 5-10 mbps.

 

Second. It's not all about the "5-10mbps vs 20-30mbps" that matters most in streaming video. Although streaming video and data intensive usages does have a minimum requirement, once we hit the ~6mbps range, there isn't much one cannot do with that connection. What matters most is the ping time which severely affects the human perception of "slow" or "fast".

 

Ping time is the delay one gets after inputting a command via touch to query a response from an online server. As I'm a semi-active / former hardcore PC gamer, ping time is a major aspect that should never be overlooked. The lower the ping (sub 150 ms) is better as everything feels more "responsive" due to the fact that queries sent to the server and coming back is done in a fraction of a second. On the other hand, once you get to the 200ms ping time, you start noticing something widely known as "lag" where everything is less responsive due to the fact that the queries sent to the server and back are much slower than every other persons connection. It means that you may be shooting at an enemy on your screen but in reality already got killed 150 ms before but it has not registered on your end yet due to the connection being slower.

 

This is one of the main reasons that gamers and other data intensive users prefer sub 100 ms ping and one of the main reasons sprints network vision requirement for backhaul is sub-100 ms ping for LTE. A 5-10 mbps connection with ~40ms ping will feel far "faster" than a 15-25 mbps connection with ~150-200 ping [cough cough] due to this alone.

 

Third. Carriers such as Verizon Wireless and ATT Mobility use 10x10mhz chunks of spectrum for their LTE deployment which has theoretical maximums of something like ~70 mbps DL and ~20 mbps UL. A 10x10 channel will always provide more bandwith available for users thanks to its wider radio waves. It's simple math really. 20mhz > 10 mhz.

 

Sprints counter though is carrier aggregation and small cell deployment which should significantly help in highly densely locations like NYC. Carrier Aggregation (CA) is a LTE-Rel 10 (LTE-A) technology that combines two separate blocks of spectrum and utilizes them as one like how DC-HSPA works. I'm sure someone can explain it better but in essence CA will allow Sprint to maintain their network speeds for a while to come as they can easily shut down a 5x5 chunk utilized for EVDO and CA it with the other PCS 5x5 chunk used for LTE and provide double the capacity (?).

 

TLDR: sub 100ms ping + 5-10 mbps DL speeds = much faster response than 20-30 mbps DL speeds & > 150ms ping due to the fact that communication between device and targeted server is done faster.

[nexgencpu]

First off. You need to read up a bit more before you start complaining about speeds.Sprints 5x5 has a maximum theoretical output of 37.5mbps DL and ~ 14 mbps UL. The theoretical maximum is the absolute maximum that is physically allowed in our known universe with regards to scientific laws in an absolute perfect setting. Sure, getting 30-35 mbps is nice but that requires a near perfect line of sight to the cell site in addition to zero entity other than you utilizing that specific sector. An entirely non realistic feat that no carrier can ever provide and is the main reason all the major carriers advertise speeds in the ballpark of 5-10 mbps.

 

Second. It's not all about the "5-10mbps vs 20-30mbps" that matters most in streaming video. Although streaming video and data intensive usages does have a minimum requirement, once we hit the ~6mbps range, there isn't much one cannot do with that connection. What matters most is the ping time which severely affects the human perception of "slow" or "fast".

 

Ping time is the delay one gets after inputting a command via touch to query a response from an online server. As I'm a semi-active / former hardcore PC gamer, ping time is a major aspect that should never be overlooked. The lower the ping (sub 150 ms) is better as everything feels more "responsive" due to the fact that queries sent to the server and coming back is done in a fraction of a second. On the other hand, once you get to the 200ms ping time, you start noticing something widely known as "lag" where everything is less responsive due to the fact that the queries sent to the server and back are much slower than every other persons connection. It means that you may be shooting at an enemy on your screen but in reality already got killed 150 ms before but it has not registered on your end yet due to the connection being slower.

 

This is one of the main reasons that gamers and other data intensive users prefer sub 100 ms ping and one of the main reasons sprints network vision requirement for backhaul is sub-100 ms ping for LTE. A 5-10 mbps connection with ~40ms ping will feel far "faster" than a 15-25 mbps connection with ~150-200 ping [cough cough] due to this alone.

 

Third. Carriers such as Verizon Wireless and ATT Mobility use 10x10mhz chunks of spectrum for their LTE deployment which has something theoretical maximums of something like ~70 mbps DL and ~20 mbps UL. A 10x10 channel will always provide more bandwith available for users thanks to its wider radio waves. It's simple math really. 20mhz > 10 mhz.

 

Sprints counter though is carrier aggregation and small cell deployment which should significantly help in highly densely locations like NYC. Carrier Aggregation (CA) is a LTE-Rel 10 (LTE-A) technology that combines two separate blocks of spectrum and utilizes them as one like how DC-HSPA works. I'm sure someone can explain it better but in essence CA will allow Sprint to maintain their network speeds for a while to come as they can easily shut down a 5x5 chunk utilized for EVDO and CA it with the other PCS 5x5 chunk used for LTE and provide double the capacity (?).

 

TLDR: sub 100ms ping + 5-10 mbps DL speeds = much faster response than 20-30 mbps DL speeds + 150ms + ping due to the fact that communication between device and targeted server is done faster.

That was an awesome explanation! Also, as you mentioned at the end about ping response, I have tested my brothers Nexus 4 on Tmobile, in excellent signal strength location ( -70dbm) vs very good sprint signal (-80dbm) Tmobiles speedtest bring up an impressive 20mb down against sprints 8mb down, and no matter what video streaming or web page we loaded mine felt instant! (30-50ping) vs his, which would always be 2 or 3 seconds behind the sprint (300-400ping) So again, having anything over 10mb sec is barely necessary unless one is pre-caching(good for situations where you know you wont have signal) or downloading videos or albums etc for offline use...

[EeZeEpEe]

TLDR: sub 100ms ping + 5-10 mbps DL speeds = much faster response than 20-30 mbps DL speeds + 150ms + ping due to the fact that communication between device and targeted server is done faster.

For a second u thought you meant TLDR as in The LockerGnome Daily Report that Chris Pirillo does on YouTube. LOL. Great post. I take consistently sub-100 pings at 5-10 Mbps any day over high pings and 20+ Mbps. It's not like I'm using torrents or downloading hundreds of MB or GB files on my phone on the go. I prefer to do big files on my FiOS Wi-Fi.

 

Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

[NaNa_Ch!LL]

I read his whole post. :-)

[tampaflusa]

I wish a admin on this thread would clean up all the off topic and complaining on this thread. I visit NYC all the time and this thread has become off topic city when I need info.

[IsaiahL]

 

 

First off. You need to read up a bit more before you start complaining about speeds.Sprints 5x5 has a maximum theoretical output of 37.5mbps DL and ~ 14 mbps UL. The theoretical maximum is the absolute maximum that is physically allowed in our known universe with regards to scientific laws in an absolute perfect setting. Sure, getting 30-35 mbps is nice but that requires a near perfect line of sight to the cell site in addition to zero entity other than you utilizing that specific sector. An entirely non realistic feat that no carrier can ever provide and is the main reason all the major carriers advertise speeds in the ballpark of 5-10 mbps.

 

Second. It's not all about the "5-10mbps vs 20-30mbps" that matters most in streaming video. Although streaming video and data intensive usages does have a minimum requirement, once we hit the ~6mbps range, there isn't much one cannot do with that connection. What matters most is the ping time which severely affects the human perception of "slow" or "fast".

 

Ping time is the delay one gets after inputting a command via touch to query a response from an online server. As I'm a semi-active / former hardcore PC gamer, ping time is a major aspect that should never be overlooked. The lower the ping (sub 150 ms) is better as everything feels more "responsive" due to the fact that queries sent to the server and coming back is done in a fraction of a second. On the other hand, once you get to the 200ms ping time, you start noticing something widely known as "lag" where everything is less responsive due to the fact that the queries sent to the server and back are much slower than every other persons connection. It means that you may be shooting at an enemy on your screen but in reality already got killed 150 ms before but it has not registered on your end yet due to the connection being slower.

 

This is one of the main reasons that gamers and other data intensive users prefer sub 100 ms ping and one of the main reasons sprints network vision requirement for backhaul is sub-100 ms ping for LTE. A 5-10 mbps connection with ~40ms ping will feel far "faster" than a 15-25 mbps connection with ~150-200 ping [cough cough] due to this alone.

 

Third. Carriers such as Verizon Wireless and ATT Mobility use 10x10mhz chunks of spectrum for their LTE deployment which has theoretical maximums of something like ~70 mbps DL and ~20 mbps UL. A 10x10 channel will always provide more bandwith available for users thanks to its wider radio waves. It's simple math really. 20mhz > 10 mhz.

 

Sprints counter though is carrier aggregation and small cell deployment which should significantly help in highly densely locations like NYC. Carrier Aggregation (CA) is a LTE-Rel 10 (LTE-A) technology that combines two separate blocks of spectrum and utilizes them as one like how DC-HSPA works. I'm sure someone can explain it better but in essence CA will allow Sprint to maintain their network speeds for a while to come as they can easily shut down a 5x5 chunk utilized for EVDO and CA it with the other PCS 5x5 chunk used for LTE and provide double the capacity (?).

 

TLDR: sub 100ms ping + 5-10 mbps DL speeds = much faster response than 20-30 mbps DL speeds & > 150ms ping due to the fact that communication between device and targeted server is done faster.

 

That was a lot of reading but thanks for the explanation I get it now .

[tampaflusa]

 

 

Lol okay , but thats cause most of us on here are cool with eachother & we all talk about the tech industry , phones , LTE , towers stuff like that , & uhh ur screen name is TampaFLUSA shouldn't you be in the Florida roll out market ?

Am I going to recieve NYC rollout info in the Florida forum? No. I visit NYC all the time and that's why I visit this forum. Reported.

[themuffinman]

Please, for the love of god, lets keep this thread on topic. Any off topic posts should be kept to the extreme minimum, anything else, we have a designated area for that. Also, if someone says something you don't like there is no need to go back and forth thus derailing the thread even more. If there are issues, there is a report button for that.

 

Lol okay , but thats cause most of us on here are cool with eachother & we all talk about the tech industry , phones , LTE , towers stuff like that , & uhh ur screen name is TampaFLUSA shouldn't you be in the Florida roll out market ?

 

What does his screen name have to do with anything? Come on dude, chill out. The purpose of this thread is to talk about network vision as it relates to NY, not a place where you come to hang out after school because you have nothing else better to do with your time. Yes, threads will get off topic once and a while and that's normal but if for whatever reason you or anyone else wants to talk about something else then there are other forums and threads for that, don't do it here....simple.

[Fraydog]

Like Tampa said, back on topic.

 

There are the off-topic threads in the general forum. Better yet, I really wish the NYC people would try to start an upgrade tracking spreadsheet on the members side like the NOLA and the STL members have done. Let's use this resource productively to learn and help each other out.

[nexgencpu]

Sensorly finally displaying mapped area in midtown in and around 23rd street and 7th ave..I was able to map about 3 blocks worth of that towards east of 7th ave and I noticed somebody went a bit west. One thing is for sure, midtown is a tough market for any carrier considering the endless obstruction and possible levels of interference.

[EeZeEpEe]

UES (71st and 1st) has definitely improved in the last few weeks. Haven't been doing many speed tests recently but today I'm at 53 ms, 12/6, -78 dBm, 62 asu. This is indoors in an apartment and speed and signals are definitely improved.

 

Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

[LTEBrooklyn]

Sensorly finally displaying mapped area in midtown in and around 23rd street and 7th ave..I was able to map about 3 blocks worth of that towards east of 7th ave and I noticed somebody went a bit west. One thing is for sure, midtown is a tough market for any carrier considering the endless obstruction and possible levels of interference.

 

Wasn't sensorly instant at 1 time or within 5 minutes of mapping? What's it now already a few days?

[nexgencpu]

 

 

Wasn't sensorly instant at 1 time or within 5 minutes of mapping? What's it now already a few days?

there has been chatter that they are in the middle of much needed server upgrades. I don't know if this will be the new normal but it's better than the maps never loading.

[LTEBrooklyn]

there has been chatter that they are in the middle of much needed server upgrades. I don't know if this will be the new normal but it's better than the maps never loading.

 

I guess we send them mapping and someone manually does the upload, even if it were slow servers, it wouldn't take days!

[nexgencpu]

 

 

I guess we send them mapping and someone manually does the upload, even if it were slow servers, it wouldn't take days!

I don't think it's a manual process. That would be a monumental undertaking.

[LTEBrooklyn]

I don't think it's a manual process. That would be a monumental undertaking.

 

That was a joke. But it shouldn't take that long to refresh the maps!

[nexgencpu]

 

 

That was a joke. But it shouldn't take that long to refresh the maps!

Missed the subtlety of your joke. Hard to tell without the "lol" It could also be there way of curbing speed issues by delaying uploading of mapping info.

[LTEBrooklyn]

Missed the subtlety of your joke. Hard to tell without the "lol" It could also be there way of curbing speed issues by delaying uploading of mapping info.

 

Forgot the lol. Lol. As for the traffic info, who knows.

[BossDre05]

Gotta love $print

 

 

But I'm still satisfied!

Ain't leaving no time soon!

 

 

[digiblur]

Gotta love $print

 

 

But I'm still satisfied!

Ain't leaving no time soon!

 

Probably poor signal.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

 

[nexgencpu]

Gotta love $print

 

 

But I'm still satisfied!

Ain't leaving no time soon!

Where is this? And looks like your probably at tailend of signal.

[Fraydog]

Or it could be one cell with a bunch of handsets trying to hit one LTE cell and overloading it. The latency is very good, so I'm betting the speeds get better when Sprint, Ericsson, and Alcatel-Lucent can get surrounding LTE cells installed and activated.

[nexgencpu]

Or it could be one cell with a bunch of handsets trying to hit one LTE cell and overloading it. The latency is very good, so I'm betting the speeds get better when Sprint, Ericsson, and Alcatel-Lucent can get surrounding LTE cells installed and activated.

I don't know if low pings necessarily mean over-saturated site, i tend to get excellent pings even when signal strength is over -95dbm..

[LTEBrooklyn]

I don't know if low pings necessarily mean over-saturated site, i tend to get excellent pings even when signal strength is over -95dbm..

 

Low pings definitely have nothing to do how overloaded the tower is. Was in Yankee stadium and doing a speed test, I got 66ms. I think that's good enough proof