article claims that Sprint LTE launches with "3G speeds"

[twospirits]

^ what?

[Deval]

I was not expecting their pool to be that nice!

 

Yep, well worth the free trip

 

My girl was there on business, so I got to stay for free, just had to pay for airfare.

[Morningside78]

My only point here is that while I strongly do feel there's a lot of hope for what Sprint will be in 18 months, Sprint and those who advocate for Sprint need to accept that a lot of people have every right to be unhappy with the way things still are today and still will be for that time.  People do still have a responsibility to be civil, and many aren't.  I've seen some of the posts you're referring to and I fully agree that it isn't useful or helpful.  I have no problem with you clamping down on that.  There's a good chunk of people on here, SU.com, community.sprint.com, and the comment sections of blogs that let their emotions about Sprint get out of hand in their posts.  But for many Sprint haters, there's a very rational, legitimate basis in fact underneath that.

 

I'd like to thank you for your excellent posts in this thread, ones I feel were needed to throw a little bit of cold water.  Someone earlier suggested that longtime Sprint customers like myself are angry because we're not getting as much stuff for free anymore?  Does anger over a lack of functional data service in my neighborhood considered a perk now?  Should I be so thrilled that Sprint's decided to accept my money that any service provide, irrespective of quality, is worthy of my praise?

 

I would assume any rational person realizes that for many customers, Sprint's downward spiral has left us drained, both emotionally and financially.  I've paid Sprint somewhere around $20,000 over the last 10 years, and in that time I've gone from someone who never uttered a complaint to a weekly caller to Account Services demanding compensation.  And why the change in tack?  Simply, Sprint's service was once very good and is now very, very bad.  I've posted on here before about my 3G data speeds that on a good day top out a 0.3 Mbps and 4G that's as fast as the 3G speeds Sprint "promises" and about as reliable as a string between two cans.  But what makes this most frustrating is not the horrendous data service but the majority of personnel Sprint employs (purportedly) to attend to the needs of their customers.  Personnel are not only rude, but largely uninformed and hide behind boiler plate when confronted with factual data.  And again, this isn't even the sticking point for me - I'm somewhat used to dealing with incompetence - but it's the lying I've endured: promises about fixes that never happen; being told months later that the problems were fixed and that the problem must be with my device; having some personnel tell me that there's nothing wrong in the area while others say there is something wrong; having service credits promised to me with transaction ids, not seeing the credit appear on my account and then calling in to find out the person promised a credit and never actually applied one; etc., etc., etc.  It's the tidal wave of dishonesty (and believe me, I've only barely scratched the surface with this post) that makes me highly skeptical about Sprint's promises for the future, no matter how innovative they claim to be.  So, yeah, while it may sound overly dramatic, my trust has been violated.  I will own up to my own stupidity in renewing my contract last year and my own gullibility when an Account Services rep told me that the horrible data speeds would be fixed within a month (most people would probably consider that a con, but I'll take it on the chin) and I wanted to get my wife a new device.  The problem is that Sprint has done nothing to try to earn my trust other than to tell me to keep paying them until things get better.  I'm sorry, but it's damn near impossible to believe anything they claim anymore.

 

I don't understand why the ETF is such a good deterrent for people wanting to leave the carriers. It sure works though.

 

I wanted to leave Sprint several months ago when I was completely fed up with the laughable quality of their service.  Thanks to the number of lines on my account, it would have cost me over $800 to go elsewhere.  If you don't understand why that's a deterrent, I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Morningside78

[ChemicalArts]

 

Quote removed due to violations of S4GRU posting guidelines

 

Completely reasonable. I've thought the same things multiple times. Sprint deserves this kind of criticism. It's actually constructive for Sprint to see that long-time customers feel cheated by the quality of service for one of their most expensive monthly bills.

 

If I weren't in one of the initial launch markets, and if I hadn't seen first hand the speed of the new LTE service, I'm not sure I'd be waiting it out.

 

Sent from my GS3 on Tapatalk 2

[bkrodgers]

This is a well written post. It's OK to write a detracting post. It just needs to be rational, well thought out and explained. Good job.

 

Robert

 

Thanks Robert. I always try to be civil and rational in such circumstances (with various levels of success). I honestly want to support Sprint and I want to see them succeed. I want them to prove that unlimited data is still viable. And while they aren't miles ahead of the competition in value as they once were, they still represent one of the best values for many people's usage needs -- if they can deliver. Right now, in many areas, they can't. I'd say I'm both a Sprint hater (a calm, rational one most of the time) and a huge advocate of them. I think NV has huge potential and if Sprint executes it right, works hard to earn back the people they've alienated, and survives long enough to do both of those, that they'll be very strong. I've stuck with them for the reasons listed above, an ETF I do not feel I should have to pay for Sprint's faults, and, frankly, because I'm on a very good legacy plan I'll never get back again if I leave. But I cannot and do not recommend them to anyone in St. Louis anymore, as you can no longer buy a modern phone from them and use it on a modern (or in many cases, functional) network. I get no joy in that. I want Sprint to succeed. I'll happily return to advocating them as I have in the past if and when NV is a success.

 

Going back to the OP, I do take issue with that author for misrepresenting the nature of the improvements that Sprint has made in these few cities they just brought live and that they're working on across the country. That's simply inexcusable, as it's misrepresenting facts about the current state in these cities that have NV, and it only serves to feed into the negative opinions people have of Sprint. But I've seen comments on this thread and others here, as well as responses to negative comments on blogs and other sites, that basically dismiss the "Sprint haters" as whiners. Some may be, but I think the two sides need to recognize that both sides are valid and not inconsistent. Advocates are right when they say there's a lot of hope for the future, and detractors are right when they say there have been serious problems for some time with no fixes coming for up to 18 months in some areas. It'd be nice if each side could recognize that the other has valid points that don't negate their own points, and be civil. But I've been participating in Internet discussions long enough to know better, unfortunately.

Edited July 18, 2012 by bkrodgers

[Morningside78]

Completely reasonable. I've thought the same things multiple times. Sprint deserves this kind of criticism. It's actually constructive for Sprint to see that long-time customers feel cheated by the quality of service for one of their most expensive monthly bills.

 

If I weren't in one of the initial launch markets, and if I hadn't seen first hand the speed of the new LTE service, I'm not sure I'd be waiting it out.

 

Sent from my GS3 on Tapatalk 2

 

I'm most likely going to wait it out.  At this point, I'm already committed for the duration of my current contract, so I'll probably give Sprint until the end of that period to show me something.  I certainly won't be buying an LTE device until it's actually functional, though.  I need to see NV active with my own eyes before I'm going to invest in anything newer than my Epic.

 

Also, what happened to my post?  I see you quoted it but my original doesn't seem to be here.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Morningside78

[S4GRU]

We are serious. Rant posts will not be tolerated and will be removed. We are not Sprint. We are not their personal complaint hosting service.

 

S4GRU is an informational board for wireless enthusiasts and a place for information about Network Vision. Our members don't want to have to sift through a bunch of negative rants.

 

Repeat offenders will be banned. You will need to go somewhere else to complain.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

[Morningside78]

We are serious. Rant posts will not be tolerated and will be removed. We are not Sprint.  We are not their personal complaint hosting service.

 

S4GRU is an informational board for wireless enthusiasts and a place for information about Network Vision. Our members don't want to have to sift through a bunch of negative rants.

 

Repeat offenders will be banned. You will need to go somewhere else to complain.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

 

I thought my post was pretty rational and logically constructed. At no point did I state anything that wasn't true, nor was I drawing on experiences other than any I've had directly in my roughly 10 years as a Sprint customer. I think it's unfair to label something that presents a less than rosy picture as a "negative rant" when the information was presented for the sake of offering a more complete picture; specifically, why I believe Sprint's claims need to be met with some skepticism. I should also add that a technical support rep told me point blank a few days ago that I should expect no improvement in my neighborhood at all and that any upgrades would simply bring the quality of service to somewhere around 0.5 Mbps per second. This was somewhat surprising since many previous calls to tech support wound up with someone telling me that NV would mean dramatic improvement in 3G speed; that this most recent call ended with a far more sobering promise is probably worth knowing.

[WiWavelength]

I should also add that a technical support rep told me point blank a few days ago that I should expect no improvement in my neighborhood at all and that any upgrades would simply bring the quality of service to somewhere around 0.5 Mbps per second. This was somewhat surprising since many previous calls to tech support wound up with someone telling me that NV would mean dramatic improvement in 3G speed; that this most recent call ended with a far more sobering promise is probably worth knowing.

 

One, you are wasting your breath with tech support. Do you think that you are actually talking to engineers?

 

Two, for a moderately loaded EV-DO network, 0.5 Mbps average downlink rate is about par for the course, as absolute peak downlink rate is 3.1 Mbps. Do you truly need greater than 0.5 Mbps? That is perfectly usable throughput for nearly all sensible activities on a mobile phone.

 

AJ

[Morningside78]

One, you are wasting your breath with tech support. Do you think that you are actually talking to engineers?

 

Two, for a moderately loaded EV-DO network, 0.5 Mbps average downlink rate is about par for the course, as absolute peak downlink rate is 3.1 Mbps. Do you truly need greater than 0.5 Mbps? That is perfectly usable throughput for nearly all sensible activities on a mobile phone.

 

AJ

 

who would you suggest I talk to? I'm all for identifying helpful Sprint personnel.

 

and as I stated in the post that was deleted, I can seldom crack 0.3 Mbps in my neighborhood. more often than not, 3G speeds range from 0.03-0.2 with pings in the 400s and 500s.

[WiWavelength]

who would you suggest I talk to? I'm all for identifying helpful Sprint personnel.

 

Likely, no one at Sprint. It is practically impossible to provide quality tech support for 50 million subs. So, come here to S4GRU where people care about the network and are knowledgeable. However, you may have to recognize that some problems are not feasibly solvable right now.

 

and as I stated in the post that was deleted, I can seldom crack 0.3 Mbps in my neighborhood. more often than not, 3G speeds range from 0.03-0.2 with pings in the 400s and 500s.

 

You will likely have to live with that level of performance until Network Vision completely overhauls the network in your neighborhood.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

 

I thought my post was pretty rational and logically constructed. At no point did I state anything that wasn't true' date=' nor was I drawing on experiences other than any I've had directly in my roughly 10 years as a Sprint customer. I think it's unfair to label something that presents a less than rosy picture as a "negative rant" when the information was presented for the sake of offering a more complete picture; specifically, why I believe Sprint's claims need to be met with some skepticism. I should also add that a technical support rep told me point blank a few days ago that I should expect no improvement in my neighborhood at all and that any upgrades would simply bring the quality of service to somewhere around 0.5 Mbps per second. This was somewhat surprising since many previous calls to tech support wound up with someone telling me that NV would mean dramatic improvement in 3G speed; that this most recent call ended with a far more sobering promise is probably worth knowing.[/quote']

 

I didn't moderate your post. One of our moderators did. However, they felt your post was a rant. My comments are just in general to all members regarding overtly negative comments and rants. They aren't welcome here. There are dozens of places for people to rant against Sprint. S4GRU will not be one of them. We are the last bastion for Sprint fans on the internet.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[Morningside78]

You will likely have to live with that level of performance until Network Vision completely overhauls the network in your neighborhood.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I was told flat out that this would not be the case in my neighborhood and that to an extent, data service will always be poor. Is there any reason to believe that NV will not impact my part of New York City?

[WiWavelength]

Is there any reason to believe that NV will not impact my part of New York City?

 

No. Network Vision will impact every Sprint cell site and every square inch of Sprint coverage footprint.

 

AJ

[Contreramanjaro]

>> AT&T is lying to the public too much about its 4G deployment and firmly backs killing net neutrality.

 

I would like to thank you for mentioning net neutrality. It is honestly one of my main reasons for choosing my ISPs. I don't think people take it nearly seriously enough.Since Sprint was a supporter of it, I threw my weight behind them. T-Mobile is the only phone ISP I think I could stand falling back to. Man, the US phone market is in tatters. Why is it that these companies don't realize they are not content creators or providers. They are connection providers. Wireless ISPs.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Contreramanjaro

[WiWavelength]

Man, the US phone market is in tatters. Why is it that these companies don't realize they are not content creators or providers. They are connection providers.

 

The issue is not what "they are" but what "they want to be." Yes, they are carriers, but they also want to be content creators because there is a lot of money to be made in content -- especially, if they can use their networks to give their content a decidedly non neutral advantage.

 

AJ

[kg4icg]

 

I would like to thank you for mentioning net neutrality. It is honestly one of my main reasons for choosing my ISPs. I don't think people take it nearly seriously enough.Since Sprint was a supporter of it, I threw my weight behind them. T-Mobile is the only phone ISP I think I could stand falling back to. Man, the US phone market is in tatters. Why is it that these companies don't realize they are not content creators or providers. They are connection providers. Wireless ISPs.

 

With Verizon and AT&T'S, it all comes down to how much money they can get out of there customers while restricting use. Those 2 could companies are what made up the old AT&T before it was split up. Being 48 years old, I remember a lot of the past.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[Contreramanjaro]

The issue is not what "they are" but what "they want to be." Yes, they are carriers, but they also want to be content creators because there is a lot of money to be made in content -- especially, if they can use their networks to give their content a decidedly non neutral advantage.

 

AJ

 

I know they want to be and that's the disgusting part. They want far too much control. If I have to use a locked phone I want some freedom. One thing I do respect Apple and its iPhone for is maintaining control on the phone... that and I get to watch ATT beg you to get a Lumia or Galaxy SIII, and hear them whine about iMessage.

 

With Verizon and AT&T'S, it all comes down to how much money they can get out of there customers while restricting use. Those 2 could companies are what made up the old AT&T before it was split up. Being 48 years old, I remember a lot of the past.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

Thinking of that, I have no idea who provides my parent's landline phone now, Ameritech, SBC, or ATT. I was a youngster but I do remember getting long distance telephone service with Sprint meant you could hear a pin drop. The HD voice teasers had a pin on them and I got all excited and people looked at me like I was insane.

 

With all the big phones launching on all the big networks, poor T-mo, carrier loyalty is plummeting and people will switch. Too much restriction could be very costly in the long run.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Contreramanjaro

[centermedic]

With Verizon and AT&T'S, it all comes down to how much money they can get out of there customers while restricting use. Those 2 could companies are what made up the old AT&T before it was split up. Being 48 years old, I remember a lot of the past.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

I'm glad you bought that up. I think the bigger issue is through mergers and aquisitions ATT(Cingular merger) and Verizon(MCI aquisition) became tier 1 internet providors. In the case of Verizon it has seemed that they have become more aggresive in their policies and positions since then.

[Conan Kudo]

I'm glad you bought that up. I think the bigger issue is through mergers and aquisitions ATT(Cingular merger) and Verizon(MCI aquisition) became tier 1 internet providors. In the case of Verizon it has seemed that they have become more aggresive in their policies and positions since then.

 

Sprint still has the advantage of being a Tier 1 global internet access provider and third largest long distance provider in the country. The only national carrier that lacks the advantage of having direct access to the U.S. internet backbone is T-Mobile.

 

I'm not entirely sure of this, but Sprint may also still own about 18% of NII Holdings, which owns all Nextel networks in Latin America. Most of these are now HSPA, but some retain iDEN too. Nextel is still pretty popular in Latin America, and that does bring in some money. Of course, T-Mobile has the advantage of being owned by Deutsche Telekom, if that can be considered one right now (Deutsche Telekom isn't really doing much to help T-Mobile USA).

 

Thinking of that, I have no idea who provides my parent's landline phone now, Ameritech, SBC, or ATT. I was a youngster but I do remember getting long distance telephone service with Sprint meant you could hear a pin drop. The HD voice teasers had a pin on them and I got all excited and people looked at me like I was insane.

 

With all the big phones launching on all the big networks, poor T-mo, carrier loyalty is plummeting and people will switch. Too much restriction could be very costly in the long run.

 

I remember that my home where I grew up in Indiana was wired up by Ameritech, which became SBC when I was about to enter public elementary school. Finally, it became AT&T when I moved to Mississippi. Two years later, it bought BellSouth. Blech.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Det_Conan_Kudo

[Deval]

As I mentioned earlier, I was told flat out that this would not be the case in my neighborhood and that to an extent, data service will always be poor. Is there any reason to believe that NV will not impact my part of New York City?

 

I think I missed a post, someone told you that your part of NYC would always be bad? Curious, what location is it?

[Deval]

Sprint still has the advantage of being a Tier 1 global internet access provider and third largest long distance provider in the country. The only national carrier that lacks the advantage of having direct access to the U.S. internet backbone is T-Mobile.

 

I'm not entirely sure of this, but Sprint may also still own about 18% of NII Holdings, which owns all Nextel networks in Latin America. Most of these are now HSPA, but some retain iDEN too. Nextel is still pretty popular in Latin America, and that does bring in some money. Of course, T-Mobile has the advantage of being owned by Deutsche Telekom, if that can be considered one right now (Deutsche Telekom isn't really doing much to help T-Mobile USA).

 

 

Yep, Sprint still have a huge wireline network, and a ton of public information about it, including latency, jitter, etc.

 

http://www.sprint.net, wealth of info on there.

 

 

 

I remember that my home where I grew up in Indiana was wired up by Ameritech, which became SBC when I was about to enter public elementary school. Finally, it became AT&T when I moved to Mississippi. Two years later, it bought BellSouth. Blech.

 

I remember when I first was shopping for a cell phone, it was Bell Atlantic, AT&T, Omnipoint, and Sprint. Even back then, Bell Atlantic was more expensive and offered less minutes than the rest. Fast forward 13 years, and it's still the same.

[twospirits]

As I mentioned earlier, I was told flat out that this would not be the case in my neighborhood and that to an extent, data service will always be poor. Is there any reason to believe that NV will not impact my part of New York City?

I think I missed a post, someone told you that your part of NYC would always be bad? Curious, what location is it?

 

Actually my exact words were that that area where he lives in (Morningside Heights near Columbia University) "is iffy", not that it will always be bad. Although in retrospect i guess my use of the word iffy could be construed as bad.

 

But I do believe with NV, that all areas in NYC will greatly improve. The site here has greatly expanded my knowledge of how and why things work as they do (although don't expect me to repeat what I learned, cause i know I'll mess it up) and knowing the work that is being undertaken by Sprint to enhance the network gives me very high hopes not only in its future outlook but to the sanity of all those that are experiencing connection issues throughout the network.

 

And while it is easy to say to others "please be patient, good things are coming", I can understand the frustration with those that can't.

 

 

TS

[pyroscott]

The thing about message board complaints of Sprint is, what good are all these internet rants doing? Nada. If I started an "I hate Sprint" blog today and it filled up with 100K rants, slow speed tests, and comments on how people hate Sprint and want to leave, who will read it? Sprint isn't going to waste their time on it, the only people that will read it are those who hate Sprint or feel jaded. The only way to get your point across to Sprint is to hit them in their wallet. Money talks.

There are several ways the average customer can hit Sprint in the wallet.

Making multiple calls to customer service and talking to CSRs, techs, supervisors etc. Yes it doesn't cost that much when a few people do it, but if everyone who had problems with their service complained, there would be drastic need for Sprint to open more call centers and hire more techs to field these calls so customers aren't waiting a long time with every call.

Leaving Sprint for another carrier.

Yes, you may be paying your ETF, but that is pretty much only reimbursing Sprint for the remaining portion of your device subsidy. That $350 or less is not going to go very far in comparison to the monthly service charge.

If nobody holds Sprint accountable, and just whines on every message board and tech article, all they are doing is annoying the people who want to have a real conversation relating to the article or topic of the message board.

 

Sprint isn't going to read the message, and they care not about some internet rant. Just like nearly every business, Sprint bases their policies on money, not customer happiness. The more rants I see filling up this website, the more it drives me away. I am well aware that there are many pockets of bad Sprint service. In fact, I live in one. That's why when you look to the left, my device is a Toro and not Toroplus. I really don't need an hourly reminder of how poor service some faceless stranger in __________city ______state, USA has with Sprint. So, as Robert said, if you want to rant, rant elsewhere, there has been a lot of work that has gone into this site and I will not see it overrun by people who just want to shit on Sprint and everything Sprint related!

 

Good day.

[twospirits]

i agree and with that, I am closing this thread. Both sides have voiced their opinions on the original topic and before it gets further heated, I rather just nip it in the butt.

 

TS