Network Vision/LTE - LA Metro Market

[shaferz]

Did you see the site nearby? Almost completely boxed in on the West side.

 

Yes - I did spy it.  It looked like there was NOT two antennas per sector (indicative of B41) - at least not yet.  I did not get close because from a distance (Canoga) it looked like the site was mounted on top of that Yacht place...?  Regardless - it seemed like the height was VERY low compared to most actual cell towers that I am used to seeing. Was with a coworker that is a AT&T guy - so I didnt want to spoil his night by doing hardcore hunting.  

[jasonsteele]

As part of paring down the WiMAX network, your carrier bandwidth may have been cut from 10 MHz TDD to 5 MHz TDD.

 

AJ

Very likely cut to 5 MHz TDD, I thought I was the only one using WiMAX in my area. To my surprise, upon doing a search for WiFi networks in my house I saw two other WiFiRSU_xxxxx networks (a dead giveaway for Clear). That would explain the congestion. I use it strictly as a backup (not to mention I'm a bit nostalgic) and it is very reliable. At least until November.

[orangeblue]

Very likely cut to 5 MHz TDD, I thought I was the only one using WiMAX in my area. To my surprise, upon doing a search for WiFi networks in my house I saw two other WiFiRSU_xxxxx networks (a dead giveaway for Clear). That would explain the congestion. I use it strictly as a backup (not to mention I'm a bit nostalgic) and it is very reliable. At least until November.

 

You see them a lot in many urban areas but I noticed more and more FreedomPOP hotspots being used.

[bigmachine]

I was at LAX from international flight. Mostly 3G. DAS and B26 is needed badly. I was in Bay Area Oakland airport, B41 where it can reach and B26 everywhere.

 

I can update this with my experience from last week:

T-5 had pretty decent B41 from security on to the gates.  T-6 was mostly 3G for gates in the low 60s, but I was able to get B41 on the southern most gates (65B-69).  I only briefly experienced B25 near the concessions in the middle.

[wyattism]

New Sprint customer here-I left them in 2010 when I only had a 3G handset, so it's interesting to see how their coverage has improved in the areas I still frequent.

 

I really hope some of the legacy Nextel sites here are going to be used. There are a few sites in Pasadena that would definitely help fill in the coverage gaps.

 

Last time I checked, B26 was delayed due to the issues with San Bernadino County. Any updates or a timeline? S4GRU is like the only place on the Internet with *any* info about the IBEZ issues. I'm super excited for its implementation. If any market needs B26, it's LA.

[bucdenny]

New Sprint customer here-I left them in 2010 when I only had a 3G handset, so it's interesting to see how their coverage has improved in the areas I still frequent.

 

I really hope some of the legacy Nextel sites here are going to be used. There are a few sites in Pasadena that would definitely help fill in the coverage gaps.

 

Last time I checked, B26 was delayed due to the issues with San Bernadino County. Any updates or a timeline? S4GRU is like the only place on the Internet with *any* info about the IBEZ issues. I'm super excited for its implementation. If any market needs B26, it's LA.

 

San Diego needs it too!  LA has B41 widespread, San Diego barely has B41.

[Toffer]

Last time I checked, B26 was delayed due to the issues with San Bernadino County. Any updates or a timeline? S4GRU is like the only place on the Internet with *any* info about the IBEZ issues. I'm super excited for its implementation. If any market needs B26, it's LA.

 

Nope, Los Angeles is still a Fake Sprint Spark market, No B26 here. As you said it's pretty much impossible to find any information about Sprint's 800 Mhz LTE whether due to IBEZ or conflicting public uses but it's still blocked here in Los Angeles. Don't know why Sprint continues to lie and and say LA's a Spark market when it's not even legal for them to offer Spark service.

 

I wanted to like Sprint and for them to do well but they're just so dishonest and incompetent.

[JosefTor]

Nope, Los Angeles is still a Fake Sprint Spark market, No B26 here. As you said it's pretty much impossible to find any information about Sprint's 800 Mhz LTE whether due to IBEZ or conflicting public uses but it's still blocked here in Los Angeles. Don't know why Sprint continues to lie and and say LA's a Spark market when it's not even legal for them to offer Spark service.

 

I wanted to like Sprint and for them to do well but they're just so dishonest and incompetent.

Although I am frustrated with the whole IBEZ thing and the seemingly slow rollout of LTE in Cali compared to the rest of the US, spark in the terms of the coverage maps typically refers to B41 and not B26.

[Toffer]

Although I am frustrated with the whole IBEZ thing and the seemingly slow rollout of LTE in Cali compared to the rest of the US, spark in the terms of the coverage maps typically refers to B41 and not B26.

 

But that directly contradicts Sprint's own definition and marketing. Sprint Spark is a powerful, enhanced LTE network capability that incorporates three bands of LTE to create a revolutionary tri-band experience. For you, this means our fastest-ever data speeds, stronger in-building signal and a whole new level of mobile internet experience. No where do they define it differently, yet for their maps and markets covered they lie and change the meaning in order to deceive customers.

[S4GRU]

Although I am frustrated with the whole IBEZ thing and the seemingly slow rollout of LTE in Cali compared to the rest of the US, spark in the terms of the coverage maps typically refers to B41 and not B26.

Not typically. Exclusively. Spark coverage shown on Sprint coverage maps only shows B41 coverage. If B26 is available in that area, it is just coincidence.

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[S4GRU]

But that directly contradicts Sprint's own definition and marketing. Sprint Spark is a powerful, enhanced LTE network capability that incorporates three bands of LTE to create a revolutionary tri-band experience. For you, this means our fastest-ever data speeds, stronger in-building signal and a whole new level of mobile internet experience. No where do they define it differently, yet for their maps and markets covered they lie and change the meaning in order to deceive customers.

B26 is shown in orange with B25. B41 is shown in yellow. Forget Sprint's marketing. It is just marketing, not a technical explanation.

 

No Sprint device is capable of using all three bands together at the same time. They aren't used all together. They are used either, or.

 

Sprint marketers should be fired over the whole Spark confusion they created with the convoluted explanation they provided which has lead to chaos. Oh wait...they were!

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[Toffer]

B26 is shown in orange with B25. B41 is shown in yellow. Forget Sprint's marketing. It is just marketing, not a technical explanation.

 

No Sprint device is capable of using all three bands together at the same time. They aren't used all together. They are used either, or.

 

Sprint marketers should be fired over the whole Spark confusion they created with the convoluted explanation they provided which has lead to chaos. Oh wait...they were!

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

 

They may have been fired yet Sprint still continues to lie and claim that Sprint Spark is three-band LTE and that it provides low band LTE with better coverage and building penetration. You can't just "forget" Sprint's marketing, how else are you supposed to trust a company other than by their word. They claimed Sprint Spark includes 800 Mhz LTE, they claimed LA is a Sprint Spark market and finally their map showed Sprint Spark service all over my area but those were all a lie and ultimately they mean something entirely different when they say Sprint Spark and customers won't get in-building coverage in LA despite their claims.

 

It's completely inexcusable for a company to continue to use a marketing term in two completely contradictory ways. They've completely lost my trust. Upsetting since they're the only real competitor to T-Mobile and I left them because my only complaint was poor coverage in my home. Oh well Consumer Cellular has decent prices and AT&T's great coverage.

[S4GRU]

They may have been fired yet Sprint still continues to lie and claim that Sprint Spark is three-band LTE and that it provides low band LTE with better coverage and building penetration. You can't just "forget" Sprint's marketing, how else are you supposed to trust a company other than by their word. They claimed Sprint Spark includes 800 Mhz LTE, they claimed LA is a Sprint Spark market and finally their map showed Sprint Spark service all over my area but those were all a lie and ultimately they mean something entirely different when they say Sprint Spark and customers won't get in-building coverage in LA despite their claims.

 

It's completely inexcusable for a company to continue to use a marketing term in two completely contradictory ways. They've completely lost my trust. Upsetting since they're the only real competitor to T-Mobile and I left them because my only complaint was poor coverage in my home. Oh well Consumer Cellular has decent prices and AT&T's great coverage.

They didn't lie. It is confusing, however. They never say Spark is shown in areas where all three bands can be used together. But someone could easily confer that from their explanation.

 

We aren't appreciating your pointless consternation. You just seem to be here to troll. Move along, please. http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/1197-s4gru-posting-guidelines-aka-the-rulez/

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[Toffer]

Sorry I don't think I'm trolling, just a disappointed ex-customer trying to help a potential customer. While my comments are negative they are factually correct. And I'm sorry there is no way that you can blame the customer for confusion about what Sprint Spark is or means when they describe it as "Sprint Spark expands, bringing with it the improved in-building signal, expanded coverage and intelligence offered by the enhanced LTE network capability.

 

Sprint Spark is a powerful, enhanced LTE network capability that incorporates three bands of LTE to create a revolutionary tri-band experience. For you, this means our fastest-ever data speeds, stronger in-building signal and a whole new level of mobile internet experience."

 

Sprint Spark means three bands, which means it must have 800 MHz LTE. Anything less is a lie. I don't think that's trolling. Just pointing out a factual consistency. Thank you. I really do hope Sprint gets its act together and becomes more open and honest with their customers and creates a true competitor to the big three. I could really use an affordable carrier that works in my home and surrounding areas.

[Jones]

Sorry I don't think I'm trolling, just a disappointed ex-customer trying to help a potential customer. 

So you're not on Sprint but posting on a Sprint enthusiast web site trying to convince others Sprint is bad?

[S4GRU]

 

 

Sorry I don't think I'm trolling, just a disappointed ex-customer trying to help a potential customer. While my comments are negative they are factually correct. And I'm sorry there is no way that you can blame the customer for confusion about what Sprint Spark is or means when they describe it as "Sprint Spark expands, bringing with it the improved in-building signal, expanded coverage and intelligence offered by the enhanced LTE network capability.

 

Sprint Spark is a powerful, enhanced LTE network capability that incorporates three bands of LTE to create a revolutionary tri-band experience. For you, this means our fastest-ever data speeds, stronger in-building signal and a whole new level of mobile internet experience."

 

Sprint Spark means three bands, which means it must have 800 MHz LTE. Anything less is a lie. I don't think that's trolling. Just pointing out a factual consistency. Thank you. I really do hope Sprint gets its act together and becomes more open and honest with their customers and creates a true competitor to the big three. I could really use an affordable carrier that works in my home and surrounding areas.

You are a troll. You are still trolling. You aren't even a current customer and we do not sell Sprint service. Any other future trolling and you will be banned. Period.

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[metayoshi]

New Sprint customer here-I left them in 2010 when I only had a 3G handset, so it's interesting to see how their coverage has improved in the areas I still frequent.

 

I really hope some of the legacy Nextel sites here are going to be used. There are a few sites in Pasadena that would definitely help fill in the coverage gaps.

 

Last time I checked, B26 was delayed due to the issues with San Bernadino County. Any updates or a timeline? S4GRU is like the only place on the Internet with *any* info about the IBEZ issues. I'm super excited for its implementation. If any market needs B26, it's LA.

Yes, San Bernadino County is still holding us up. From what I hear around this site, though, that should be resolved during this summer. I'm crossing my fingers for this one. One thing I've been happy about though is their rapid expansion of B41. I haven't seen too many new B41 additions within the last couple of weeks, but I saw a vast improvement over the last 6 months down here in Irvine and Tustin. I'm even seeing B41 in places where I barely get any B25, indoors of all places. With B26, indoor coverage should be even better.

[trojanman05]

Longtime Sprint user since I got my first cell phone in high school (I think it was in 2001). I've really had no reason to switch carriers as Sprint has always performed well enough for me most of the time. However, I signed up for the T-Mobile test drive the other day and received it (iPhone 5S) yesterday. I've heard a lot that the T-Mobile LTE network is a lot more improved (as well as a faster network fallback to HSPA+ instead of 3G), and the plans have peaked my interest, especially the addition of VoLTE, WiFi calling and texting that can handoff to cellular, and free unlimited data (albeit not 4G) and texting in 122 countries. So, with that said, here's how my experience has been while working in downtown today...

 

I live in OC and work downtown a few days out of the week, so I commute on Metrolink. On Sprint, my phone is pretty much on LTE the entire trip from the Tustin station to Union station, switching between B25, B41 and Clearwire B41. There are a few stretches where it can drop to 3G, but this is more the exception than the rule, and doesn't happen every trip. I was monitoring the T-Mobile iPhone 5s on the ride up this morning, and it was connected to LTE the entire way except for when it dropped to HSPA+ between Anaheim and Fullerton. I did plenty of speed tests throughout, but ultimately was unimpressed with the speeds. LTE DL was clocking in between 1-3 mbps, with UL being slightly higher. There were a few times when DL speeds went into the 10-20 mbps range, but only a couple times. On the way back I did speed tests alongside my Sprint phone at most stations (Buena Park, Fullerton, Anaheim, Orange and Santa Ana), and Sprint outdid T-Mobile every time. If I remember correctly, B41 was at each of these stations. I'm commuting to LA again on Monday, and will see how it is then.

 

I work on the 37th floor on Bunker Hill in downtown LA. Once the Clearwire B41 towers were turned on about a year ago, my phone stays on LTE at a signal of around -115dbm, and I'm able to pull down around 5-7 mbps, which is plenty good. Today, the T-Mobile iPhone was jumping between LTE, HSPA+ and Edge, spending most of it's time on HSPA+ and Edge. Speed tests on LTE and HSPA+ were producing DL and UL of .1 mbps, Edge even slower. Disappointing to say the least, but I will point out that the iPhone 5S doesn't support B12 (700 mhz), which is currently in the active stages of being deployed in LA. One can be hopeful that B12 would reach into the building. Even so, even my speed tests outside on the T-Mobile phone was underwhelming (~3 mbps, if that) in the vicinity of my building. However, I did walk down south towards the financial district at lunchtime and did pull down around 13mbps. Still, my Sprint phone (which stays on Clearwire B41 downtown), consistently brings down 10-20 mbps.

 

Now, with all that said, I know that the highest speeds don't dictate how great a network is. But it seems like the T-Mobile network was overcapacity (even with their 15x15 "wideband" LTE) during the workday downtown, and while I was still able to load webpages at a mostly acceptable speed, Sprint's B41 seemed to be handling the capacity a lot better - which should be expected, but it was nice to see in real world experiences.

 

As for OC, T-Mobile is definitely doing better than Sprint, at least the areas I frequent. I've got a solid LTE signal at my house and pulling around 20mbps (and pulling the same speeds on HSPA+). Same thing at my gym near the Spectrum. Sprint switches between LTE and 3G in both these places, and Sprint 3G is still awfully slow at the gym, but LTE and HSPA+ is plenty fast on T-Mobile. Note that I turn off LTE on the iPhone to connect to HSPA+ to test the speed, so I'm not losing an LTE connection, just forcing HSPA+. I'll continue to monitor over the weekend how T-Mobile performs against Sprint, but so far it's looking a lot better than downtown LA.

 

Sorry this is so long, but wanted to share my real life experience with how T-Mobile is performing against Sprint. Still undecided if I'll switch, we'll see how it goes over the next few days.

[ericdabbs]

Longtime Sprint user since I got my first cell phone in high school (I think it was in 2001). I've really had no reason to switch carriers as Sprint has always performed well enough for me most of the time. However, I signed up for the T-Mobile test drive the other day and received it (iPhone 5S) yesterday. I've heard a lot that the T-Mobile LTE network is a lot more improved (as well as a faster network fallback to HSPA+ instead of 3G), and the plans have peaked my interest, especially the addition of VoLTE, WiFi calling and texting that can handoff to cellular, and free unlimited data (albeit not 4G) and texting in 122 countries. So, with that said, here's how my experience has been while working in downtown today...

 

I live in OC and work downtown a few days out of the week, so I commute on Metrolink. On Sprint, my phone is pretty much on LTE the entire trip from the Tustin station to Union station, switching between B25, B41 and Clearwire B41. There are a few stretches where it can drop to 3G, but this is more the exception than the rule, and doesn't happen every trip. I was monitoring the T-Mobile iPhone 5s on the ride up this morning, and it was connected to LTE the entire way except for when it dropped to HSPA+ between Anaheim and Fullerton. I did plenty of speed tests throughout, but ultimately was unimpressed with the speeds. LTE DL was clocking in between 1-3 mbps, with UL being slightly higher. There were a few times when DL speeds went into the 10-20 mbps range, but only a couple times. On the way back I did speed tests alongside my Sprint phone at most stations (Buena Park, Fullerton, Anaheim, Orange and Santa Ana), and Sprint outdid T-Mobile every time. If I remember correctly, B41 was at each of these stations. I'm commuting to LA again on Monday, and will see how it is then.

 

I work on the 37th floor on Bunker Hill in downtown LA. Once the Clearwire B41 towers were turned on about a year ago, my phone stays on LTE at a signal of around -115dbm, and I'm able to pull down around 5-7 mbps, which is plenty good. Today, the T-Mobile iPhone was jumping between LTE, HSPA+ and Edge, spending most of it's time on HSPA+ and Edge. Speed tests on LTE and HSPA+ were producing DL and UL of .1 mbps, Edge even slower. Disappointing to say the least, but I will point out that the iPhone 5S doesn't support B12 (700 mhz), which is currently in the active stages of being deployed in LA. One can be hopeful that B12 would reach into the building. Even so, even my speed tests outside on the T-Mobile phone was underwhelming (~3 mbps, if that) in the vicinity of my building. However, I did walk down south towards the financial district at lunchtime and did pull down around 13mbps. Still, my Sprint phone (which stays on Clearwire B41 downtown), consistently brings down 10-20 mbps.

 

Now, with all that said, I know that the highest speeds don't dictate how great a network is. But it seems like the T-Mobile network was overcapacity (even with their 15x15 "wideband" LTE) during the workday downtown, and while I was still able to load webpages at a mostly acceptable speed, Sprint's B41 seemed to be handling the capacity a lot better - which should be expected, but it was nice to see in real world experiences.

 

As for OC, T-Mobile is definitely doing better than Sprint, at least the areas I frequent. I've got a solid LTE signal at my house and pulling around 20mbps (and pulling the same speeds on HSPA+). Same thing at my gym near the Spectrum. Sprint switches between LTE and 3G in both these places, and Sprint 3G is still awfully slow at the gym, but LTE and HSPA+ is plenty fast on T-Mobile. Note that I turn off LTE on the iPhone to connect to HSPA+ to test the speed, so I'm not losing an LTE connection, just forcing HSPA+. I'll continue to monitor over the weekend how T-Mobile performs against Sprint, but so far it's looking a lot better than downtown LA.

 

Sorry this is so long, but wanted to share my real life experience with how T-Mobile is performing against Sprint. Still undecided if I'll switch, we'll see how it goes over the next few days.

 

I am intrigued about Tmobile's network and how it performs in the LA/OC area.  I still want to try the Tmobile test drive for comparison but I do want to wait until I see 2 things first before using up my 1 time test drive.

 

1.  700 MHz network is built out for the decent portion of the LA/OC areas.

2. The test drive offers an iPhone version that supports B12 LTE.  Currently only the iPhone 5S can be used for Test Drive and even the iPhone 6 does NOT contain the B12 LTE bands.

 

I would be curious to see how Sprint's LTE network holds up once Sprint can start deploying B26 LTE later on this year once San Bernardino County is cleared out and has rebanded entirely.  Hopefully Tmobile builds out B12 LTE quickly and puts pressure on Sprint to build out B26 LTE quickly as well so that they don't get left behind for the LA/OC markets.

[EvanA]

 

 

I would be curious to see how Sprint's LTE network holds up once Sprint can start deploying B26 LTE later on this year once San Bernardino County is cleared out and has rebanded entirely. Hopefully Tmobile builds out B12 LTE quickly and puts pressure on Sprint to build out B26 LTE quickly as well so that they don't get left behind for the LA/OC markets.

Sprint B26 will go MUCH faster than T-Mobile B12. Sprint already deployed 800MHz equipment with network vision, so all they will need to do is activate and optimize.

[lou99/maximus1987]

Sprint B26 will go MUCH faster than T-Mobile B12. Sprint already deployed 800MHz equipment with network vision, so all they will need to do is activate and optimize.

They're both 5x5. I think you mean 'spring is farther ahead I'm deploying lowband so TODAY sprint lowband is faster than TMO lowband'

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvanA]

They're both 5x5. I think you mean 'spring is farther ahead I'm deploying lowband so TODAY sprint lowband is faster than TMO lowband'

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I mean the deployment speed of band 26, once started, will be much faster than T-Mobile band 12 deployment.

[ericdabbs]

Sprint B26 will go MUCH faster than T-Mobile B12. Sprint already deployed 800MHz equipment with network vision, so all they will need to do is activate and optimize.

 

No that is not entirely true for all of LA/OC.  The sites in LA/OC that cannot deploy 800 MHz CDMA or LTE currently do NOT have the 800 MHz RRUs already installed on the racks.  The panels are installed but that is only because the panels used in NV are dual band (800 and 1900) supported.  I have personally witnessed that many NV sites that falls under the restricted zone (mainly eastern part of LA county and all of OC county) do NOT have the 800 MHz RRUs installed but only the 1900 MHz RRUs.

 

So when Sprint finally gets the go ahead to deploy, they will need to deploy quickly.  From looking at the NV complete maps you can see that there is a portion of LA that has 800 MHz CDMA already deployed and I agree for those sites the 800 MHz LTE should be lit up quickly but for eastern part of LA county and all of OC county Sprint will need to send crews to install the 800 MHz RRUs and connect them to the NV panels and optimize.

[WiWavelength]

I would be curious to see how Sprint's LTE network holds up once Sprint can start deploying B26 LTE later on this year once San Bernardino County is cleared out and has rebanded entirely.  Hopefully Tmobile builds out B12 LTE quickly and puts pressure on Sprint to build out B26 LTE quickly as well so that they don't get left behind for the LA/OC markets.

 

T-Mobile band 12 deployment is not putting any significant pressure on Sprint band 26 deployment anywhere.  The unwashed masses of users on both sides have practically zero knowledge of the behind the scenes low/mid/high band machinations.  Only we few semi professionals and advanced users care.

 

And, in San Bernardino County, if any pressure is being applied, Sprint is the one applying it -- to the FCC to force the incorrigible rebanders to move their shit.  What T-Mobile is doing is not a concern.

 

AJ

[bigmachine]

Wireless contractors for all of the carriers have been very busy in L.A.  Sprint has its remaining NV sites and 8T8R upgrades going on.  AT&T has been upgrading panels/RRUs,  TMO has been doing their 700 upgrades and Verizon has been adding small cells like crazy.

 

TMO is the only one I've seen from start to finish.  I've seen 2 sites get the new 700 MHz panels and it's been a one day job in both cases.

 

I hope Sprint can be just as fast on sites that already have the 800/1900 panels but no 800 RRU.