Jump to content

Network Vision/LTE - West Washington Market (Seattle/Puget Sound Region)


drlovety

Recommended Posts

Also, not sure if I noticed this before or not but the Sprint Tower at the north intersection of I405 and I5 (by Target) is labeled as a keep tower. I guess Tmobile wants to get off that power pylon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/6/2021 at 6:02 PM, PedroDaGr8 said:

Also, not sure if I noticed this before or not but the Sprint Tower at the north intersection of I405 and I5 (by Target) is labeled as a keep tower. I guess Tmobile wants to get off that power pylon.

Good - that site has given them way too many upgrade issues. SnoPUD wouldn't even let T-Mobile climb the tower; they insisted on taking T-Mobile's plans and doing the upgrade themselves.

On 5/5/2021 at 9:10 AM, PedroDaGr8 said:

Kingsgate still isn't live yet as of yesterday afternoon. There were some staff working on it at the ground level though. 

Interesting - I'm back in town so I'll stop by this week sometime. 

On 5/5/2021 at 9:10 AM, PedroDaGr8 said:

EDIT: Add one more for the conversion of the Woodinville Slough Sprint Site.

That's a great add. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, RAvirani said:

Interesting - I'm back in town so I'll stop by this week sometime. 

Just checked again this morning. Apparently they finished it off yesterday or the day before.  The drunken panels are gone and B41/n41 is live.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
4 hours ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

B25 just got cut again down to just the 5MHz G-Block. I'm curious what that is in preparation for. 

Is that across the Seattle market?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, RAvirani said:

Is that across the Seattle market?

Not sure about all of Seattle but 100% of the eastside sites I have encountered so far. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Note: I'm beginning to suspect they deprecated Sprints 2660 MHz B41 carrier on around June 1st. Based on my logs I have only seen Sprints 2680 Mhz and no CA since that point. 

You're probably right - I remember hearing that Sprint L2500 was going to be trimmed down to a single carrier a few weeks back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
7 hours ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Just saw this permit: 

https://permitsearch.mybuildingpermit.com/PermitDetails/21110744CBP/Snohomish County

It sure looks like a T-Mobile site number (SE01794A) and mentions "ADD 2 ABIL FOR N1900 N2100"

First time I have seen a permit mention n1900 or n2100 (would this be n2 and n66?).

Yes. Coming soon!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK add this to the WTF pile that is T-Mobile and the Totem Lake area. 

You know the old Sprint site on top of the Motel 6, the one which was such a PIA that Sprint never bothered to upgrade to tri-band. Well...it is broadcasting the Sprint Keep PLMN this morning. Seriously. WTF T-Mobile. That makes FIVE sites within a 3/4 mile radius and easily almost ten sites within visibility of this area.

On a related note, the new Totem Lake site (the colo with AT&T) on top of the TSRI building in Totem Lake started broadcasting yesterday. Additionally, the Evergreen upgrade appears to be completed but not live yet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

OK add this to the WTF pile that is T-Mobile and the Totem Lake area. 

You know the old Sprint site on top of the Motel 6, the one which was such a PIA that Sprint never bothered to upgrade to tri-band. Well...it is broadcasting the Sprint Keep PLMN this morning. Seriously. WTF T-Mobile. That makes FIVE sites within a 3/4 mile radius and easily almost ten sites within visibility of this area.

On a related note, the new Totem Lake site (the colo with AT&T) on top of the TSRI building in Totem Lake started broadcasting yesterday. Additionally, the Evergreen upgrade appears to be completed but not live yet. 

Wow. 

In Totem Lake, Verizon has two sites - one four sector (four 45° antennas) and a three sector that is nulled in the direction of the other site (via three 45° antennas). AT&T has two standard three sector sites (with 65° antennas) that don't overlap due to terrain. Their networks are so clean that 64QAM (24dB+ SNR) or even 256 QAM (30dB+ SNR) are consistently available.

https://imgur.com/a/jm3Wvy1

T-Mobile, on the other hand, has four (going on five) sites plus a significant spectrum advantage, and they perform noticeably worse. They barely push 16QAM - in fact you frequently see modulation drop to QPSK. I guess in their mind, 4-5 sites operating at 4 bits per symbol is better than two sites operating at 8 bits per symbol. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, RAvirani said:

Wow. 

In Totem Lake, Verizon has two sites - one four sector (four 45° antennas) and a three sector that is nulled in the direction of the other site (via three 45° antennas). AT&T has two standard three sector sites (with 65° antennas) that don't overlap due to terrain. Their networks are so clean that 64QAM (24dB+ SNR) or even 256 QAM (30dB+ SNR) are consistently available.

https://imgur.com/a/jm3Wvy1

T-Mobile, on the other hand, has four (going on five) sites plus a significant spectrum advantage, and they perform noticeably worse. They barely push 16QAM - in fact you frequently see modulation drop to QPSK. I guess in their mind, 4-5 sites operating at 4 bits per symbol is better than two sites operating at 8 bits per symbol. 

I seriously can't figure it out, especially in light of the coverage from new AT&T Colo site. This new site provides excellent B2/B66 coverage for the area; if they had just added B41 to the new site, it would have been perfect. The coverage on this site compliments the Evergreen site very well pretty much negating the need for any additional sites nearby. 


Seriously, the site next to McDonalds and the site on top of Motel 6 should both be shut down. They add NOTHING to the area in terms of coverage. The only nearby site which is semi-necessary is the site next to the CKC. It provides some good intermediate coverage down I405.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/28/2021 at 9:06 AM, PedroDaGr8 said:

Yeah, the two corner sectors are just insane, they are almost totally overlapping. They could get essentially the exact same performance from this sector with half the equipment by mounting it right on the corner. 

PPIEqjI.jpg

Update on this one:

https://imgur.com/a/WZFfaY2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Hmm, that is interesting and gives a bit of insight into their thought process. Though I am not sure I believe that the indoors performance was truly necessary in that area.

I strongly disagree with their assessment. A 20-degree difference in alignment would make little to no difference in indoor coverage. While the beta sector may be picking up a lot of traffic now, it could easily be picked up by the gamma sector. 

Meanwhile, going from 16QAM (which is about normal there) to 64QAM or 256QAM (which requires a 6-12 dB increase in SNR) would allow UEs to push 50-100% more bits per symbol. That would be huge for speeds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RAvirani said:

Wow. 

In Totem Lake, Verizon has two sites - one four sector (four 45° antennas) and a three sector that is nulled in the direction of the other site (via three 45° antennas). AT&T has two standard three sector sites (with 65° antennas) that don't overlap due to terrain. Their networks are so clean that 64QAM (24dB+ SNR) or even 256 QAM (30dB+ SNR) are consistently available.

https://imgur.com/a/jm3Wvy1

T-Mobile, on the other hand, has four (going on five) sites plus a significant spectrum advantage, and they perform noticeably worse. They barely push 16QAM - in fact you frequently see modulation drop to QPSK. I guess in their mind, 4-5 sites operating at 4 bits per symbol is better than two sites operating at 8 bits per symbol. 

T-Mobile's commitment to using twice as many sites as necessary is something that they also love to do in NYC though it typically doesn't affect performance much. They just adjust down tilt so each site covers a really tiny area. Here's a comparison between T-Mobile and Verizon in two different neighborhoods in Brooklyn, NY (Canarsie and Bed-Stuy). Sprint in the same neighborhoods has a similar number of sites to Verizon and is spaced similarly.

T-Mobile in Canarsie:

 83X7iK5.png

 

Verizon in Canarsie: 

6VQIvzj.png

 

T-Mobile in Bed-Stuy:

(A lot of the unconfirmed Band 2/66 sites on T-Mobile are eNB IDs for multiple small cells in the neighborhood.)

gIlgLLU.png

 

Verizon in Bed-Stuy: 

l5QM2q1.png

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

T-Mobile's commitment to using twice as many sites as necessary is something that they also love to do in NYC though it typically doesn't affect performance much. They just adjust down tilt so each site covers a really tiny area. 

If they were limiting sites' range with downtilt, they'd be a lot better over here. Unfortunately, we have a lot of sector overlap and noise because they don't. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On another note, the Sprint site at the corner of 85th and the 405 in Kirkland is now broadcasting the Sprint Keep PLMN. Also, the downtown Kirkland Sprint tower is no longer broadcasting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, RAvirani said:

Nice! How does the load balancing look?

I'm not sure how to tell.  I seem to not stay on it very long unless it is the only option available. Speeds seem fine on it, though having it and an 80MHz n41 at the same time was kind of humorous to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

I'm not sure how to tell.  I seem to not stay on it very long unless it is the only option available. Speeds seem fine on it, though having it and an 80MHz n41 at the same time was kind of humorous to me. 

Without rooting your phone, SNR of the 5x5 vs SNR of the 20x20 carrier is probably your easiest comparison. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Similar Content

    • By lilotimz
      Samsung Network Vision equipment are highly distinct and fairly easy to spot compared to the equipment that other vendors are deploying. Sprint is Samsung's first extremely massive American contract (baring Clearwire) so there  should be no issues in confusing these equipment for another carrier which happens often with Ericsson NV equipment.

      Below are images of Samsung equipment which includes antennas, remote radio units, base stations, and their mounting configurations. 
       
      Samsung antenna with eSMR 800 RRU & PCS 1900 RRU

      A close look at a Samsung setup





      Next Generation Samsung Configuration
      RRH-P4 4T4R 1.9 GHz  | RRH-C4 4T4R 800 MHz| RRH-V3 2.5 GHz

      Next Generation 8 Port Dual Band Antenna Setup 
      4 port 800 MHz RRH-C4 800

      (source: dkyeager)

      (source: dkyeager)
      Narrow beam setup

      High Capacity Site with 2 Antennas & 3 RRUs (2x PCS & 1x SMR).
      Second antenna is PCS only for now.


      Canadian IBEZ (NO SMR)

      Special Case PCS Only Setup for Canadian IBEZ




      Close up of standard antenna connectors 

      Samsung Cabinets

       
       
      Powerpoint slides from Samsung / Sprint
      *disclaimer - all  powerpoint diagrams and images were found through public municipality online databases and is by no means misappropriated through malicious means*
      *Credit goes to those whom took pictures of these equipment. You know who you are*
    • By pyroscott
      Sprint Nextel revealed their second quarter 2012 corporate earnings in a conference call to their investors today and S4GRU was covering for news on Network Vision.
      Network thinning of the iDEN network is complete, taking 1/3 of Nextel towers off air. The Nextel network was built to support 20 million subscribers, but was only supporting 4.4 million subscribers, so it could easily be thinned without [much] noticeable change in street coverage. Sprint also converted 60% of the Nextel subscriber loss into their Sprint subscriber base. Interestingly, they stated that Verizon has been the biggest poacher of subscribers leaving Nextel, grabbing 50% of former subscribers in the last 4 1/2 years. In that same timeframe, Sprint has grabbed 25%, AT&T 20% and T-Mobile 5%.
       
       
      On the Network Vision topic:
      4 additional cities will launch, including Baltimore, by the end of August.*Edit* Cities were disclosed VIA press release following the conference call. They are:
      Baltimore, MD Gainesville, GA Manhattan/Junction City, KS Sherman-Denison, TX  
      Over 2,000 sites are currently online with 12,000 sites to be online by the end of the year
      Network Vision towers are seeing 10-20% additional voice minutes usage per tower, overnight after activating Network Vision. This will equal roaming savings for Sprint, and ESMR will only increase that savings.
      CEO Dan Hesse confirmed that Sprint will be releasing the Motorola Photon Q "in the very near future." It will be a QWERTY slider "with robust business and consumer features." It will also be sporting world phone capability.
      Several hundred Network Vision sites are waiting for backhaul, and will turn on when the backhaul is installed, several hundred more sites have birds nesting on them and Sprint won't be able to turn them on until the birds leave, according to the conference call.
      Sprint sold 1.5 million iPhones during the quarter, even though other carriers saw slowing of sales with rumors ramping up that the new iPhone would support LTE. 40% of the iPhone sales were to new customers. They also stated that iPhone customers require less customer support and are expected to churn less than customers on other phones.
      Mr. Hesse confirmed that Sprint is not looking to change plans in the near future.
      Things are looking up for Sprint. This quarter saw their highest ARPU and their lowest churn rate to date. They posted a larger loss than Q1, but beat their revenue goals for Q2. For more detailed financial information, check the source link below.
       
      Source: http://investors.spr...spx?iid=4057219
      http://finance.yahoo...-141200985.html -Thanks to S4GRU sponsor marioc21 for finding this link!
    • By lilotimz
      Here are the Alcatel-Lucent (ALU) Network Vision equipment for Sprint. Their equipment consists of 2x base stations, 6 or 9 Remote Radio Unit (RRU) setups, and 1 standard NV antenna of with connectors on the bottom (4x PCS, 2x SMR). 

      Below are images of Alcatel-Lucent equipment. In these images, you will find Alcatel-Lucent base stations, Sprint Network Vision antennas, PCS 1900 & SMR 800 RRUs, and their configurations.
      Alcatel-Lucent 4x40w 25 MHz PCS 1900 B25 RRUs (Panasonic) [old]

      Alcatel-Lucent  4x45w 1900 MHz B25 RRU 

      ALU 2x50w B26 800 MHz RRU [KMW Communications]

      Older Panasonic Setup [4x40w 25 MHz B25]




      Standard Alcatel-Lucent Setup 
      Utilizes 2x50w 800 MHz B26 RRU and 4x45w 1900 MHz B25 RRU and compatible antennas. 



      Closer Look at the connectors on the bottom of the antennas

      Special Case Mexican IBEZ Setup
      Note the lack of 800 MHz RRUs though the antennas are capable of 800 MHz. 


      High Capacity Setup


      High Capacity no SMR 800 IBEZ setup


      * Credits go to those whom took the images of these equipment. You know who you are."
    • By Febby
      I notice a lot of post regarding the markets in IL,FL,TX,PA,NYC.... but how about about the Los Angeles market? I THINK it was samsung doing the set up for the L.A market? Not sure though.... I'm not a sponsor member of the site so I can't really check... if I had a job I'd most definitely donate!
       
      Couple of months ago the local towers were all down and being upgraded to NV I assume since Larry from Howard forums said there was NV work being done my zip code. The speeds were better for a bit but now they are awful again.
       
      Can anyone (most preferred Robert) make a comment on if there is any LTE activity near 90255 area code?
       
      Thanks, great site by the way... I'm a Lurker.
    • By EntrepreneurKid
      I'm here looking for answers to a simple question. Where is this mystery Sprint signal coming from? For the past few weeks I've received a signal on multiple Sprint devices, two Sprint devices with roaming turned off, and two Virgin Mobile phones and Virgin Mobile phones can't roam, the other rate plans might be able but I'm talk about Virgin Mobile devices from before they introduced all those other plans. What I'm making clear is these devices have to be picking up a Sprint signal, plus I've downloaded the SignalCheck Pro app which has indicated two different signals 1XRTT and 1X800. 
       
      The signal only last for about 8 hours each morning and begins coming in and out towards the end of each morning. I try making a call and it fails, and it doesn't get any data at all. I try each device and they all do the same thing they have a signal and very strong signal with no data, and voice doesn't go threw, I haven't tried sending a text figured no data, no voice then there must be no text.
       
      I read about some "projects"  that Sprint has going on Project Ocean and Project Cedar. Since Project Ocean is suppose to be taking place in Missouri and I live so close to the Iowa, Missouri line, I figured if there is a tower going up maybe it is possible I'm getting a signal from it, in the early stages. I really don't know what is going on, if Sprint is launching service, putting up new towers and that signal finally comes, and stays, and works. I'll be back full time on the Sprint ban wagon. Unfortunately, I live in an area not served by (according to experience and coverage map) Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint. Not even the two Iowa carriers i Wireless or Chat Mobility serve my area, go 10, 15 or 20 miles in any direction your good, here, wireless dead zone, no choice of carriers. And if Sprint puts a tower here if I finally get an answer and learn that signal will soon come and stay and work I'll finally have a choice.
       
      So if anyone has any ideas, has experienced this in other parts of the country or has any idea what could be going on please say. Any information is better than not knowing, and together maybe this will be answered.
  • Posts

    • At least a few sites in STL are now at 100 MHz.
    • 100 MHz n41 is live in Austin and...Bentonville, Arkansas. Guessing this went live on Tuesday or Wednesday in Austin; network was acting a bit wonky on Tuesday. Noticed it yesterday, as I'm still a little too far away at home to catch n41. Peak speed in Bentonville 1/3 mi from the site was 675-700 Mbps down, 80-90 Mbps up, with the upload speed only possible with a 20 MHz B66 anchor...which seems congested at times. They also have 5 MHz B2 here as an anchor, which predictably leads to slow uploads. n71 is 15x15 here. Sprint B25 is two 5x5 channels. Weirdly, seems like I'm being routed through Nashville, so latency is rather high, and tethering performance is somehow quite poor...maybe it's due to congestion on the PCC meaning that the difference between on-phone and tethered priority is the difference between a usable connection and...not. Also, VZW (with the old Alltel SID for CDMA) is what you end up using inside the Crystal Bridges museum, though the area has WiFi so not the end of the world.
    • The Sprint site at 520/202 was decommissioned a few weeks ago. Everything was pulled off the pole. 
    • It looks like N5 supports 5, 10, 15, and 20 MHz channel widths. I wonder how long they'll wait before they make a change to be able to use more of that spectrum for N5. Possible options I see: Use 15x15 as B26/N5 using DSS (If thats an option, or would it have to match and be N26?) 5x5 as B5 LTE for older phones and that still leaves 5x5 for HSPA.  A more aggressive option would be to use 20x20 for N5 exclusively and 5x5 for HSPA. This still leaves 10x10 B12 and 10x10 B14 for older phones for low band. Hopefully they enable SA if they go this route. Since I believe you can't aggregate low band LTE with low band NR in most cases, phones using the N5 carrier would not be touching the B12 and B14 carriers. If they enable SA on the 20x20 N5 carrier it would also help free up their limited midband spectrum for older non-NR phones. That would also prevent falling back to LTE only inside a building just because the mid-band anchor band was too weak. In Daytona AT&T was broadcasting 5x5 B2, 10x10 B66, and 10x10 B30 and that was it for midband. 
    • I've found 2 decommissioned Sprint sites in Louisville, both were sites with both T-Mobile and Sprint. In both cases all Sprint tower equipment including the rack were removed. I haven't had time to dig through our permit site to see if I can find anything, but I'll be surprised if I do. 
  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...