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Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

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I do not the reason of the MW backhaul hold up in the Chicago market. I'm flabbergasted it's taken this long.

 

 

 

 

Is it like this in other markets?

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

 

 

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I do not the reason of the MW backhaul hold up in the Chicago market. I'm flabbergasted it's taken this long.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

My gast is a little flabbered, too.  Seems like McHenry County (Crystal Lake, McHenry, and up to the Cheddar Curtain) and Dekalb County (Dekalb & Sycamore) have gotten lost in the Chicagoland shuffle.  Both areas had tower upgrades early last fall, but many of those towers seem to be languishing in backhaul Neverland.  It doesn't seem like a permit issue, as the affected towers are in several, different municipalities, and in towns, not in the counties. And many (most?) of them already have 800 SMR (working and detectable, although not yet accepted).

 

4G LTE is all around, south, east, and west, so close that it teases you with -110 to -115 dbm signals, but not really usable in most of our 2 hopelessly neglected counties. So, woe is us.

 

The nice Sprint Customer Care lady said her system showed LTE at least at the Cog Circle site within 90 days. One can hope.

 

I know that many areas haven't even seen have a glimmer of that hope, and I don't mean to whine (although I am VERY good at it!), but dadgummit, Sprint, give me my 4G before Charlie Ergen bleeps up the whole Sprint universe.

 

Thanks for listening.

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I would be extremely shocked if these areas aren't live with upgraded backhaul within 90 days. Most of then appear complete with the old panels removed.

 

We can then, in Chicago all stop complaining to Robert who, despite running a site dedicated to Sprint LTE info, can touch his nearby gmo only site. Lol!

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

 

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And to think with all the BFE areas around me, I haven't seen one site fed via microwave here even if it is only accessible by boat either.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

 

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And to think with all the BFE areas around me, I haven't seen one site fed via microwave here even if it is only accessible by boat either.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

Maybe they enjoy the challenge?

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Maybe they enjoy the challenge?

I cant remember how I got this stuck in my head, but I thought I heard from a Sprint rep they were supposed to be finished with the Chicago market by August 2013.  I assume that means backhaul too.  Im not sure why Robert is so shocked the backhaul has taken so long in many places.  I thought he was the one that said backhaul was being provided by ATT, a strict conflict of interest.  And I think he even made the point that as ATT knows what Sprint is doing with new backhaul there sure as hell aren't probably moving as fast as they can to keep Sprint on schedule.  Corporate political shuffle is in play here.

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I cant remember how I got this stuck in my head, but I thought I heard from a Sprint rep they were supposed to be finished with the Chicago market by August 2013.  I assume that means backhaul too.  Im not sure why Robert is so shocked the backhaul has taken so long in many places.  I thought he was the one that said backhaul was being provided by ATT, a strict conflict of interest.  And I think he even made the point that as ATT knows what Sprint is doing with new backhaul there sure as hell aren't probably moving as fast as they can to keep Sprint on schedule.  Corporate political shuffle is in play here.

 

I have no information as to whether Att is dragging their feet on backhaul, but I can tell you that if Sprint felt that it was happening, they'd instantly be in federal court filing a complaint. On a multibillion dollar project they're not just going to shrug their shoulders and tell Samsung et al to go play solitaire until Att gets it together. Also, let's not forget that Sprint is an ISP too...people forget that sprint.net is a thing.

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I cant remember how I got this stuck in my head, but I thought I heard from a Sprint rep they were supposed to be finished with the Chicago market by August 2013.  I assume that means backhaul too.  Im not sure why Robert is so shocked the backhaul has taken so long in many places.  I thought he was the one that said backhaul was being provided by ATT, a strict conflict of interest.  And I think he even made the point that as ATT knows what Sprint is doing with new backhaul there sure as hell aren't probably moving as fast as they can to keep Sprint on schedule.  Corporate political shuffle is in play here.

 

To clarify, I am shocked that the microwave backhaul has taken so long in the Chicago market.  I don't see why these sites wouldn't have been first.  Typically, MW is faster to deploy than waiting on fiber.  The MW sites went first in the Texas markets.

 

Robert

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That is permissible. Just reference where you got the Site ID if posting it in a public place. That way our Mods don't think you are quoting it from Sponsor content.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

Site IDs are also littered throughout ULS.

 

 

My gast is a little flabbered, too.  Seems like McHenry County (Crystal Lake, McHenry, and up to the Cheddar Curtain) and Dekalb County (Dekalb & Sycamore) have gotten lost in the Chicagoland shuffle.  Both areas had tower upgrades early last fall, but many of those towers seem to be languishing in backhaul Neverland.  It doesn't seem like a permit issue, as the affected towers are in several, different municipalities, and in towns, not in the counties. And many (most?) of them already have 800 SMR (working and detectable, although not yet accepted).

 

4G LTE is all around, south, east, and west, so close that it teases you with -110 to -115 dbm signals, but not really usable in most of our 2 hopelessly neglected counties. So, woe is us.

 

The nice Sprint Customer Care lady said her system showed LTE at least at the Cog Circle site within 90 days. One can hope.

 

I know that many areas haven't even seen have a glimmer of that hope, and I don't mean to whine (although I am VERY good at it!), but dadgummit, Sprint, give me my 4G before Charlie Ergen bleeps up the whole Sprint universe.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Permits are not an issue as the dishes have been installed for months. Well, they have to be using the backhaul before 02/14/2014 or else they lose their licenses...  not that they're hard to get new ones.

 

And to think with all the BFE areas around me, I haven't seen one site fed via microwave here even if it is only accessible by boat either.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

There's a lot of fiber out there they can use. Actually, they're not even using all that is out there. I'm not sure who was in charge of designing this network, but I'm not sure how hard they thought.

 

I cant remember how I got this stuck in my head, but I thought I heard from a Sprint rep they were supposed to be finished with the Chicago market by August 2013.  I assume that means backhaul too.  Im not sure why Robert is so shocked the backhaul has taken so long in many places.  I thought he was the one that said backhaul was being provided by ATT, a strict conflict of interest.  And I think he even made the point that as ATT knows what Sprint is doing with new backhaul there sure as hell aren't probably moving as fast as they can to keep Sprint on schedule.  Corporate political shuffle is in play here.

 

It likely is not all being provided by AT&T. AT&T isn't the ILEC for the entire market. Frontier is much less aggressive with fiber and EoC. I'm not sure if they did, but they should have used Windstream or some BTOP fiber out in a lot of the Frontier areas. Comcast does some FTTT as well.

 

 

 

 

They have one tower lit with LTE that is in the middle of the chain. The furthest "left" link would make the most sense from a fiber availability perspective and from a link capacity perspective.

 

On another chain of four towers, I noticed sporadic connectivity today, briefly had LTE and pulled 1.7/1.7 on a speed test...  when I never got near that before. Maybe they're actually getting ready to launch a bunch of LTE on new towers.

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It likely is not all being provided by AT&T. AT&T isn't the ILEC for the entire market. Frontier is much less aggressive with fiber and EoC. I'm not sure if they did, but they should have used Windstream or some BTOP fiber out in a lot of the Frontier areas. Comcast does some FTTT as well.

 

 

 

The vast majority of the Chicago market are backhauled by ATT if everything still fits the original network vision document information on the area. 

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The vast majority of the Chicago market are backhauled by ATT if everything still fits the original network vision document information on the area. 

 

AT&T does serve a significant part of the market, yes, but the DeKalb\Sycamore area being referenced is not AT&T. AT&T does, however, serve McHenry and Crystal Lake. Now that's not to say that AT&T isn't just subbing out these other areas (perhaps at a loss) to get the big contract. *shrugs*

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z9u87aosolox1w6/lecmap.pdf

 

Around here, Windstream did Verizon's backhaul and I suspect US Cellular as well, based on who has built fiber to what towers. Frontier has done AT&T wireless's backhaul. I guess Frontier is doing the backhaul for a Sprint tower as well as no one else has started any fiber construction to it and it is several miles from anyone else. Frontier actually just built out 7.25 miles of fiber to get to this tower with AT&T and Sprint.

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AT&T does serve a significant part of the market, yes, but the DeKalb\Sycamore area being referenced is not AT&T. AT&T does, however, serve McHenry and Crystal Lake. Now that's not to say that AT&T isn't just subbing out these other areas (perhaps at a loss) to get the big contract. *shrugs*

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z9u87aosolox1w6/lecmap.pdf

 

Around here, Windstream did Verizon's backhaul and I suspect US Cellular as well, based on who has built fiber to what towers. Frontier has done AT&T wireless's backhaul. I guess Frontier is doing the backhaul for a Sprint tower as well as no one else has started any fiber construction to it and it is several miles from anyone else. Frontier actually just built out 7.25 miles of fiber to get to this tower with AT&T and Sprint.

 

Possibly but the premier sponsor region holds the original network documentation that specifies who's the backhaul contractor for which market. It's fluid and does change but the point still stands that the vast majority of the market uses ATT backhaul and a select few other ILEC's.

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Possibly but the premier sponsor region holds the original network documentation that specifies who's the backhaul contractor for which market. It's fluid and does change but the point still stands that the vast majority of the market uses ATT backhaul and a select few other ILEC's.

 

I know the Premium Sponsor section contains that information, but being a ISP\telecom company in this region who is familiar with all of the operators in play...  I'll believe what I observe on the ground, what the ULS has and what I know about the industry over what that information says.

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It turns out that virtually every NV site in far northwest Chicagoland that does NOT have LTE at this time is a microwave backhaul site. And virtually every site that DOES have LTE is an "Ethernet" (=fiber) backhaul site, and virtually every fiber backhaul site already DOES have LTE.

 

Fiber = LTE. Microwave = no LTE.

 

So what the heck is with the microwave?

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It turns out that virtually every NV site in far northwest Chicagoland that does NOT have LTE at this time is a microwave backhaul site. And virtually every site that DOES have LTE is an "Ethernet" (=fiber) backhaul site, and virtually every fiber backhaul site already DOES have LTE.

 

Fiber = LTE. Microwave = no LTE.

 

So what the heck is with the microwave?

 

Do we know if the microwave links are actually up? Or is the equipment installed but legacy backhaul still in place?

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It turns out that virtually every NV site in far northwest Chicagoland that does NOT have LTE at this time is a microwave backhaul site. And virtually every site that DOES have LTE is an "Ethernet" (=fiber) backhaul site, and virtually every fiber backhaul site already DOES have LTE.

 

Fiber = LTE. Microwave = no LTE.

 

So what the heck is with the microwave?

 

Do we know if the microwave links are actually up? Or is the equipment installed but legacy backhaul still in place?

 

3G data speeds on these microwave-to-be sites have been mediocre or worse, suggesting that the microwave links have not been activated, even though the dishes are mounted. I did a speed test yesterday about 100 yards south of the Cog Circle site and got <250 kbps down, very slow up (the test failed before completion), and >300 ms ping. Then, earlier today I did a speed test on the Cog Circle site from about 3/4 miles west and got 1.176 Mbps down, 0.828 Mbps up, 107 ms ping, which suggests things are better on that tower today. At this moment,  I am getting 0.086 Mbps down, 0.142 Mbps, and 124 ms ping from (I think) Bard Rd. in Crystal Lake (about 1.25 miles).

 

An educated guess, then, is that the microwave links are not yet active, and the towers are still on legacy backhaul.

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Microwave equipment is up all over DeKalb/Sycamore, has been for over 2 months or longer. Only one tower is LTE live, and that was 3 weeks ago when it first went live. Your argument about Microwave = no LTE is not always true. I really have no clue what is going on out here. They are not following the normal template that was used when deploying Chicago and suburbs.

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With iDEN sunsetting this month, what is the realistic expectation that LTE800 will be broadcasting in Chicago any time soon? I'm currently considering picking up a HTC One but due to the lack of a Snapdragon 800 in it, I'm wavering. As it is, the connectivity on my Galaxy Nexus is spotty at best on the north side with almost zero building penetration.

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With iDEN sunsetting this month, what is the realistic expectation that LTE800 will be broadcasting in Chicago any time soon? I'm currently considering picking up a HTC One but due to the lack of a Snapdragon 800 in it, I'm wavering. As it is, the connectivity on my Galaxy Nexus is spotty at best on the north side with almost zero building penetration.

 

Within 3 months in the Chicago regions, The region will be the first to have all 3 bands (LTE 800 / 1900 / 2500) up and running. 

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Within 3 months in the Chicago regions, The region will be the first to have all 3 bands (LTE 800 / 1900 / 2500) up and running.

 

You think so? I think NYC will be one of the first markets to get Clear LTE but I think Sprint will be hesistant to announce LTE from Clear and their PCS network is ready here yet.

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You think so? I think NYC will be one of the first markets to get Clear LTE but I think Sprint will be hesistant to announce LTE from Clear and their PCS network is ready here yet.

 

It's all but confirmed by Roberts sources. In addition, Clearwire has been deploying TD-LTE equipment in Chicago for many months now of which are all are waiting to be connected to Sprint MSC's in order to go live. They need the boost and Sprint knows it too.

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Microwave equipment is up all over DeKalb/Sycamore, has been for over 2 months or longer. Only one tower is LTE live, and that was 3 weeks ago when it first went live. Your argument about Microwave = no LTE is not always true. I really have no clue what is going on out here. They are not following the normal template that was used when deploying Chicago and suburbs.

 

If in a series of microwave links, Sprint has fiber at the site with the highest capacity microwave license, then Sprint indeed has one microwave fed site with LTE in DeKalb/Sycamore. They also have LTE active on a series of microwave sites from Sycamore to Rochelle. Fiber fed sites in the area remain without LTE as well.

 

I know you know this, but for the rest...

 

Damn it, I leave for a Cubs game in the AM, but I want to investigate the microwave sites in the southern part of the county.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Microwave equipment is up all over DeKalb/Sycamore, has been for over 2 months or longer. Only one tower is LTE live, and that was 3 weeks ago when it first went live. Your argument about Microwave = no LTE is not always true. I really have no clue what is going on out here. They are not following the normal template that was used when deploying Chicago and suburbs.

I was referring only to McHenry County, and candidly, I have not map-checked every site even here, so I can't demonstrate the complete accuracy of my statement. Nonetheless, it is an interesting trend, IMO.

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Hanging out in terminal C (I think, United has all their flights out of it) and LTE connectivity is great. I'm watching Netflix while waiting two hours for a connecting flight and I have yet to hit buffering.

 

Not bad at all!

 

 

Sent from my Sprint iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Definitely been seeing improvement with LTE connectivity in downtown Chicago the past few weeks.  Sprint seems to be adding 4G towers in-between the first run sites and it appears to have a nice impact.  Still far from perfect but I would say the likelihood of having an LTE connection downtown (Loop area) is now over 50%.

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      Network thinning of the iDEN network is complete, taking 1/3 of Nextel towers off air. The Nextel network was built to support 20 million subscribers, but was only supporting 4.4 million subscribers, so it could easily be thinned without [much] noticeable change in street coverage. Sprint also converted 60% of the Nextel subscriber loss into their Sprint subscriber base. Interestingly, they stated that Verizon has been the biggest poacher of subscribers leaving Nextel, grabbing 50% of former subscribers in the last 4 1/2 years. In that same timeframe, Sprint has grabbed 25%, AT&T 20% and T-Mobile 5%.
       
       
      On the Network Vision topic:
      4 additional cities will launch, including Baltimore, by the end of August.*Edit* Cities were disclosed VIA press release following the conference call. They are:
      Baltimore, MD Gainesville, GA Manhattan/Junction City, KS Sherman-Denison, TX  
      Over 2,000 sites are currently online with 12,000 sites to be online by the end of the year
      Network Vision towers are seeing 10-20% additional voice minutes usage per tower, overnight after activating Network Vision. This will equal roaming savings for Sprint, and ESMR will only increase that savings.
      CEO Dan Hesse confirmed that Sprint will be releasing the Motorola Photon Q "in the very near future." It will be a QWERTY slider "with robust business and consumer features." It will also be sporting world phone capability.
      Several hundred Network Vision sites are waiting for backhaul, and will turn on when the backhaul is installed, several hundred more sites have birds nesting on them and Sprint won't be able to turn them on until the birds leave, according to the conference call.
      Sprint sold 1.5 million iPhones during the quarter, even though other carriers saw slowing of sales with rumors ramping up that the new iPhone would support LTE. 40% of the iPhone sales were to new customers. They also stated that iPhone customers require less customer support and are expected to churn less than customers on other phones.
      Mr. Hesse confirmed that Sprint is not looking to change plans in the near future.
      Things are looking up for Sprint. This quarter saw their highest ARPU and their lowest churn rate to date. They posted a larger loss than Q1, but beat their revenue goals for Q2. For more detailed financial information, check the source link below.
       
      Source: http://investors.spr...spx?iid=4057219
      http://finance.yahoo...-141200985.html -Thanks to S4GRU sponsor marioc21 for finding this link!
    • By lilotimz
      Ericsson RRUS31 B25 + RRUS11 B26
      These are the newest and greatest remote radio units to come from Ericsson. 

      The new Ericsson RRUS31  B25 should be fairly distinctive compared to the earlier RRUS11s and now the RRUS12s being deployed by ATT and Verizon. One of these new RRUS31s can do the job of two earlier RRUS11s thus reducing deployment costs for Sprint and complexity in deploying new sites and making it easier for users to spot as there are now 4 jumpers coming out of one RRUS31 rather than two from each RRUS11 that Ericsson originally deployed. 

      All future deployments will be utilizing the new Ericsson RRUS31s. In addition Ericsson are sending crews to their original deployments and swapping out older RRUS11s for these new RRUS31s due to the aforementioned fact that one RRUS31 can do the job of 2 RRUS11s. Weight savings will be significant at sites where there are 4 or 5 RRUS11 B25s that can be replaced by one or 2 RRUS31s. The Ericsson RRUS31 deployment project is known as the 65 Mhz Project. 

       

      Ericsson RRUS11 B26 top and RRUS31 B25 bottom

       

       
      Ericsson High Capacity / 4x4/2 MIMO Deployment
      Note the additional antenna + PCS radio.
      Previously Ericsson utilized additional PCS radios and used RF combiners for high capacity setups where they utilized three or more PCS radios. This new setup will utilize a completey new antenna + radio set just like Samsung and run 4x2 MIMO on the LTE antenna / radio set. 
       

       

       

       
      Ericsson RRUS11 B25 [EOL'd] and B26
      A standard Ericsson Network Vision 1.0 site with 3 RRUS11s where two are dedicated to PCS and one to SMR.  

      This type of setup is no longer deployed or utilized in new sites. Existing sites will be slowly converted to newer RRUS31 B25 via the Sprint 65 mhz project. 


       
      Ericsson NV high capacity site [EOL'd]
      3 or 4 PCS RRUs are present for a total of 4 or 5 RRUS11s per antenna. 


       

       

       
      Close up of Antennas
       

       
      Ericsson cabinets 
      (center)



      All credit to those who took the photographs. They know who they are!
       
  • Posts

    • I accidentally broke the Samsung menus when I compiled the latest release; it will be resolved in next update.   Thanks, I'll look into that.. it's all a work in progress, glad we are making some headway!   The current display format is temporary, it is just to get the data displaying reliably.. once that happens, it will get its own "block" like the connection other technologies have.
    • I forgot to post this this morning. Seems that Sprint will offer the V60. My buddy at Sprint HQ says more will be said Monday. Lets see if this pans out.   TS out
    • Another suggestion, can you place the 5G info above the neighbor cell list? In dense urban areas with 5x CA there will easily be enough neighbor cells to push the 5G info off the screen. Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
    • I did notice that the NR info sticks when I don't have an NR connection. Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
    • Its working on both phones, I sent a couple mode diagnostic reports. I dont see the band selector shortcut anymore though. I'm not seeing the accent color on either phone but I do have the option set to show it. Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
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