Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[No_name]

Here is what Sprint shows for Chicago for network vision completion.

 

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[Joeynach]

Robert(s4gru) said that in about three months from the shut down of nextel network, chicago would have 800 lte. They would be one of the first markets. so just give it time, I just wish they could get backhaul to the rest of the sites and finish chicago.  I would love for chicago to be the first market done with network vision with 800 lte and 2600 lte.

800 and 2600 LTE sounds so nice.  But that will require a phone upgrade and hundred of dollars spent by us the consumer to tap those.  I am more concerned with Sprint finishing up what they have promised and getting improved 3G and LTE up and running at every tower in this market for our current swath of phones; Galaxy 3/4, iPhone 5, HTC One, etc.  McCormick Place has the old red 3G tower pins, 50% of the Loop has the old red 3G or the aqua 3G/800 pins.  Anything east of i-65 in Indiana is stuck with 3G/800 pins.  Finish what you started and light up LTE at every site in this metro area, then lets talk 800 and 2600.

[tommym65]

Here is what Sprint shows for Chicago for network vision completion.

 

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What is further down on the list? What? What? What!!!!???? . . .

 

Whoever you are, thanks for the information.  And, if there is some way you can show the rest of the list without having to flee to Russia, some Chicago ex-urbanites would be forever grateful!

[drock2750]

Here is what Sprint shows for Chicago for network vision completion.

 

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It's actually a little disconcerting to see that 85% of towers are live with LTE 1900 when LTE is only available maybe 40-50% of the time in my experience. Hopefully it's just that most of my time is spent in the remaining 15%, not an indicator that this whole thing isn't ever going to work well. Because many sites near me aren't LTE, you have a much better shot at getting LTE outdoors. The decreased indoor coverage radius from a tower combined with the dearth of LTE sites in the first place makes indoor LTE a rare event for me. 

[Cubbiefan82]

It's actually a little disconcerting to see that 85% of towers are live with LTE 1900 when LTE is only available maybe 40-50% of the time in my experience. Hopefully it's just that most of my time is spent in the remaining 15%, not an indicator that this whole thing isn't ever going to work well. Because many sites near me aren't LTE, you have a much better shot at getting LTE outdoors. The decreased indoor coverage radius from a tower combined with the dearth of LTE sites in the first place makes indoor LTE a rare event for me. 

as soon as they get it on all the towers, they can just the down tilt of the antennas and that will help out a lot. Some of the towers are set to cover a wider area, because the the other towers are not turned on yet.

[gnoj]

Here is what Sprint shows for Chicago for network vision completion.

 

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Is that 742nd tower not getting 1x 800 in the Chicago/Joliet/Naperville area a GMO? If so, it's apparently the only one of the 892 canvassed sites that are shown there like that. That document does confirm what many have observed and reported- that 1x 800 is almost entirely rolled out in the market, with only 61-62 sites left to get it.

 

As a side note, why is it referred to as 1xRTT? I thought 1x Advanced is the next (and current) iteration of CDMA 2000 1x. Or is the full moniker something like 1xRTT Advanced? Also, just to clarify, has the 1x on PCS been upgraded to 1xA or is it just the 1x on SMR that gets that treatment? If both bands are using 1xA then it would probably make sense to tune PCS voice for capacity and SMR voice for coverage.

 

It's actually a little disconcerting to see that 85% of towers are live with LTE 1900 when LTE is only available maybe 40-50% of the time in my experience. Hopefully it's just that most of my time is spent in the remaining 15%, not an indicator that this whole thing isn't ever going to work well. Because many sites near me aren't LTE, you have a much better shot at getting LTE outdoors. The decreased indoor coverage radius from a tower combined with the dearth of LTE sites in the first place makes indoor LTE a rare event for me. 

 

It's probably a combination of the towers nearest to you not all having upgraded backhaul/LTE yet and the relatively poor LTE RF performance of the Evo. In DuPage County all but 8 sites are broadcasting LTE and I have great data coverage with the S4 everywhere but basements and deep inside a few large metal buildings (e.g. warehouse stores), which can be blamed on the 1900 MHz band LTE is currently deployed on and the more fragile nature of LTE vs 1xA and Ev-DO.

[Joeynach]

It's actually a little disconcerting to see that 85% of towers are live with LTE 1900 when LTE is only available maybe 40-50% of the time in my experience. Hopefully it's just that most of my time is spent in the remaining 15%, not an indicator that this whole thing isn't ever going to work well. Because many sites near me aren't LTE, you have a much better shot at getting LTE outdoors. The decreased indoor coverage radius from a tower combined with the dearth of LTE sites in the first place makes indoor LTE a rare event for me. 

Indoor LTE coverage on 1900 mhz is sucky unless your like directly underneath the tower itself.  Thats why the 4G 800 Mhz is a huge upgrade (although again we have to pay for this), its why you see your LTE drop away in city buildings where VZW and ATT still going strong. Does your LTE say strong and active when you step foot in the United Center, Water Tower Place, Jewel or Target, the Hancock bldg?  Mine does not!

 

But still, my point is more about completing the coverage build out.  Look at the NV Sites complete map and look at the Iconic Chicago areas with the 3G only pins.  The heart of Wicker Park at the Milwaukee/Damen/North intersection, McCormick Place Convention Center, Merchandise Mart, Fulton Market District, Gold Coast (North Mich Ave) area, right outside of T1 at O'hare.....all these areas are covered in those legacy 3G only red pins or new 3G/800 only teal pins right now.  We have a ways to go yet just to get this city covered in LTE with no significant gaps.  That picture of 4G build out from Sprint showed something like 15% of towers or 100 towers in the area still without LTE.  What I am saying here is look at all the uber dense and very populated urban landmarks and attractions that are obviously part of this 15% without LTE. 

[drock2750]

Indoor LTE coverage on 1900 mhz is sucky unless your like directly underneath the tower itself.  Thats why the 4G 800 Mhz is a huge upgrade (although again we have to pay for this), its why you see your LTE drop away in city buildings where VZW and ATT still going strong. Does your LTE say strong and active when you step foot in the United Center, Water Tower Place, Jewel or Target, the Hancock bldg?  Mine does not!

 

But still, my point is more about completing the coverage build out.  Look at the NV Sites complete map and look at the Iconic Chicago areas with the 3G only pins.  The heart of Wicker Park at the Milwaukee/Damen/North intersection, McCormick Place Convention Center, Merchandise Mart, Fulton Market District, Gold Coast (North Mich Ave) area, right outside of T1 at O'hare.....all these areas are covered in those legacy 3G only red pins or new 3G/800 only teal pins right now.  We have a ways to go yet just to get this city covered in LTE with no significant gaps.  That picture of 4G build out from Sprint showed something like 15% of towers or 100 towers in the area still without LTE.  What I am saying here is look at all the uber dense and very populated urban landmarks and attractions that are obviously part of this 15% without LTE. 

I was at Milwaukee and North for the first time in a while recently and was connected to a CDMA800 tower FAR away from me. Data wasn't usable either...just timed out. Even if backhaul is still an issue, what is the legacy equipment doing there? If the remaining legacy equipment is in densely populated areas, that's a lot of unhappy customers, and unhappy customers = churn. I know alcatel has a whitepaper on how to use bonded DSL lines for backhaul in LTE deployments, so youd think that if a site was a year delayed in backhaul they could get temporary backhaul via omnipresent ADSL2+ lines. It would be waaay better than the scenario that exists now, one would think. Even ethernet over copper from Megapath or Ethernet over fiber from RCN or Comcast is available all over the city. RCN will sell you a symmetrical gigabit ethernet over fiber connection if you want one. For a multi unit building I work at they quoted me $1800/month for a 100x100 connection....by far the lowest bid. Temporary backhaul just doesn't seem unreasonable to me when dealing with delays of this magnitude. If this notion has been discussed in other posts, I'd be happy to read up on it.

[tongboy]

Am I the only one that looks at those figures and thinks Wow, a lot has been done! This is a completely different network this year then last year for most people.

 

I am sitting in my aluminum sided house a half a mile from a tower with nice LTE, while using of all things an Evo that has horrid Rf.

 

Those sites that remain will likely get more attention the closer they get to the end.

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

 

 

[tongboy]

Temporary backhaul just doesn't seem unreasonable to me when dealing with delays of this magnitude. If this notion has been discussed in other posts, I'd be happy to read up on it.

There is very little legacy equipment left except for the backhaul.

 

I agree with what you are saying though. I think the consensus here is no one knows why the backhaul is in some places a year and a half behind from being finished and connected up. Some of the backhaul types that are delayed have left me scratching my head also. In Crystal Lake there are a group of towers using MW backhaul that have had the visible MW equipment and full tower/structure builds done for over a year and yet no LTE and fast evdo speeds. There are probably been a few contractors and Sprint employees that have had some very tense meetings over areas like those.

 

Sent from my EVO LTE

 

 

[mhammett]

there are a group of towers using MW backhaul that have had the visible MW equipment and full tower/structure builds done for over a year and yet no LTE and fast evdo speeds. There are probably been a few contractors and Sprint employees that have had some very tense meetings over areas like those. Sent from my EVO LTE

The microwave sites are behind because the master fiber site isn't up yet... Or someone's [self-censored].

 

Temporary backhaul just doesn't seem unreasonable to me when dealing with delays of this magnitude. If this notion has been discussed in other posts, I'd be happy to read up on it.

Unlicensed backhaul in 5 and 60 Ghz is common. Time to build there can be as little a few days.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[aerxx]

I was thinking the other Peace and 23, by Bemis Ford.

 

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lol, sorry I live in Sycamore now, that is where my mind was.

[drock2750]

The microwave sites are behind because the master fiber site isn't up yet... Or someone's [self-censored].

 

 

Unlicensed backhaul in 5 and 60 Ghz is common. Time to build there can be as little a few days.

 

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What do you mean by unlicensed backhaul?

[mhammett]

What do you mean by unlicensed backhaul?

Microwave gear that can be deployed instantly, without prior FCC coordination.

 

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[drock2750]

Microwave gear that can be deployed instantly, without prior FCC coordination.

 

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Gotcha...so in addition to ethernet over copper, ethernet over fiber, and unlicensed microwave there are numerous ways to get a huge pipe almost anywhere in Chicagoland very quickly without ATT lol

[mhammett]

I could have 100 megabit to every remaining tower site in a week if permits... permitted.

[digiblur]

I doubt you will see any carrier using unlicensed services for voice. Too many variables that they can not control.

[mhammett]

I doubt you will see any carrier using unlicensed services for voice. Too many variables that they can not control.

 

What they're hauling, I don't know, but they're already using unlicensed 5 and 60 GHz products. I'm not sure if they're using 24 Ghz or not. Several companies cater to this space.

 

AFAIK, Redline Communications only makes unlicensed products below 6 GHz and they have the following as clients: Orange, Bell, ClearWire, Sprint, Cellular One, Suddenlink, etc.

 

US cellular companies have used unlicensed for voice backhaul for a long time, before 3G was cool. They used Western Multiplex Tsunami radios that consumed the entire 5 GHz band. Western Multiplex merged with Proxim in 2001, so cellular companies have been using unlicensed since before 2001.

[digiblur]

What they're hauling, I don't know, but they're already using unlicensed 5 and 60 GHz products. I'm not sure if they're using 24 Ghz or not. Several companies cater to this space.

 

AFAIK, Redline Communications only makes unlicensed products below 6 GHz and they have the following as clients: Orange, Bell, ClearWire, Sprint, Cellular One, Suddenlink, etc.

 

US cellular companies have used unlicensed for voice backhaul for a long time, before 3G was cool. They used Western Multiplex Tsunami radios that consumed the entire 5 GHz band. Western Multiplex merged with Proxim in 2001, so cellular companies have been using unlicensed since before 2001.

 

What a dumb move to use unlicensed spectrum to feed licensed spectrum with 911 lifeline services...  some fly by night yo-yo throws up a radio and knocks out a whole string of sites.  Smooth move!  If you're going to do that then why even bother marking your fiber backhaul in the ground?

[mhammett]

What a dumb move to use unlicensed spectrum to feed licensed spectrum with 911 lifeline services...  some fly by night yo-yo throws up a radio and knocks out a whole string of sites.  Smooth move!  If you're going to do that then why even bother marking your fiber backhaul in the ground?

 

If they were properly engineered, they wouldn't have much of a problem with that. That said, Sprint's knowledge in how to properly engineer microwave backhaul seems to be lacking. Most dishes I've seen them use are at least one size smaller than I would have. Small dishes raise the noise floor and also hear more noise. When compensating for smaller dishes with larger radios, you're missing out on the receive gain of a larger dish. I've been running unlicensed 5 GHz backhaul in the Chicago market for years and the only problems I've had were with radios on the same site as me. I modified my equipment and have been fine since.

 

There's also very very little chance of unlicensed devices in the 24 and 60 GHz bands receiving interference unless intentional.

 

There's also no guarantee of a protected service with a licensed radio, only that the FCC will investigate the situation and tell the other person to stop.

 

There's also no guarantee of a protected service with fiber. You're one new lawn sprinkler system away from losing your fiber circuit.

 

This is why I build my network with a multitude of links in a multitude of directions.

[Joeynach]

Anyone else had service and connectivity issues at Solider Field.  I am going to the Bears game tonite, the last two times I was there, one for a Bears game last year, one for a soccer game last month, I had essentially no service.  Forget LTE, the phone wouldn't even stay in 3G, it kept going between 3G (with zero throughput) and then 3G Roam (which also never comes with any throughput).  Essentially no service.  Have others experienced the same issue at Solider Field for games or concerts?

[ChiWestLoop]

Anyone else had service and connectivity issues at Solider Field.  I am going to the Bears game tonite, the last two times I was there, one for a Bears game last year, one for a soccer game last month, I had essentially no service.  Forget LTE, the phone wouldn't even stay in 3G, it kept going between 3G (with zero throughput) and then 3G Roam (which also never comes with any throughput).  Essentially no service.  Have others experienced the same issue at Solider Field for games or concerts?

I was at the Messi and Friends soccer match and the Jay-Z Justin T. concert and on both instances I didn't have any service at all! And I mean no 3g, no txt, no voice. NOTHING!!! Very disappointed here with Sprint the last two years.

[Joeynach]

I was at the Messi and Friends soccer match and the Jay-Z Justin T. concert and on both instances I didn't have any service at all! And I mean no 3g, no txt, no voice. NOTHING!!! Very disappointed here with Sprint the last two years.

Service was awful again last night, almost non-existant and the stadium was half full.  Occasionally it would pop into 3G or 4G usually time out if I tried to do anything; call or data.  Most of the night the phone just displayed full bars with no 4G or 3G icon, not sure what that means when it does that, but it essentially renders the phone to no service b/c when that happens all Apps say things like "no network available, check connection".

 

[mhammett]

Service was awful again last night, almost non-existant and the stadium was half full. Occasionally it would pop into 3G or 4G usually time out if I tried to do anything; call or data. Most of the night the phone just displayed full bars with no 4G or 3G icon, not sure what that means when it does that, but it essentially renders the phone to no service b/c when that happens all Apps say things like "no network available, check connection".

 

Some more awesome execution! They should have had the major venues done a year ago.

 

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[Joeynach]

Some more awesome execution! They should have had the major venues done a year ago.

 

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Ha yeah right, I noticed the same problem at Soldier Field a year ago.  Same problem at Wrigley Field now and a year ago, same problem at the United Center now and a year ago.  Some things never change.  I also saw a ton of complaints about this area; Solider Field, Museum Campus, Northerly Island, etc, on Sprint's forums.  Everyone seems to have the same no service no connectivity issue.  How has a pico site not been deployed?  And I hope and pray the two, count em two towers that are near this area, haven't received their fiber backhaul yet, b/c they are LTE active and if they have received it than its obvious Sprint's infrastructure would then be too lacking to provider proper service in one of Chicago's most heavily trafficked areas.